Utility bill problems and solutions?

Keith R

"Believe it!"
Jan 1, 2002
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Ah, yes...

Cleef,
You have put your finger on one of my major complaints about my four yrs of living in SD: so much time and frustration spent by me & my family correcting needless mistakes made by others that had or could have a significant impact on my life. It started in my first days there, when I tried to get the process started in clearing our household goods & car through customs. Despite all the documentation I had provided that clearly stated that my car was a blue Honda Civic, someone in customs decided to mark it as a red Honda Prelude. I spent days getting that corrected, and the corrections stamped by five different officials attesting that it was a legitimate correction.
I can't count the number of times my name was misspelled on official documents (I had to change our car registration twice because the clerks could never be bothered to type names the way they were filled out on documents), or my age was put wrong. I was not alone in this. When my suegra went to get her "new cedula," JCE, with all its new technology and procedures, somehow managed to list her as half her age, a foot shorter and as a male, as well as misspell her name (how hard is it to spell "Jimenez"????), even though she had carefully and painstakingly filled out all documentation clearly (I saw it before she turned it in) and provided her old cedula, which had all the correct info on it! After wasting an entire day in the process, she had to return to waste another day to correct it.
As in my many cases, no one even apologized for the mistakes. Never (well, almost never -- Citibank apologized for a mistake they made -- but then promptly did it again the next month!). If they said anything at all, it was always only to blame someone else or the computers, never to apologize for the inconvenience.
And it was not just government offices that did it. Business Mail did it. CDE did it. Ay, don't get me started about utility screw-ups! For nearly two months Codetel information operators gave people our home number as the number for some plastics business in Herrera, giving us a mess of annoying phone calls. [Codetel never apologized.] After Hurricane Georges dropped the phone line to my house, Tricom continued to bill me for local phone service, even though I repeatedly went and stood in line and told them I had no connection, therefore no service, so I had nothing to pay for, and would they please send someone to reconnect the line? They insisted that all was fine because the computer said so, that I was just trying to avoid my bills, and they were going to cut off my internet access! We went at it for months. After going up many layers of management and still encountering the same stupidity ("the computer says you have service, so you do"), I finally asked for & paid a "final" bill, closed the account and turned reluctantly to Codetel. The next month Tricom sent me another bill, saying that they had not accounted for all charges on my closing bill!!!!!
I'm not claiming mistakes don't happen here in Virginia. They do. For example, the electric company misspelled my wife's name on the billing twice (once after being carefully corrected by me) before getting it right. But the difference is, the correction was done in five minutes by phone, and the service people dealt with apologized profusely.
I may love and miss my family and friends in the DR, and the country's beauty and wonders, but these hassles and "premium prices for running a business" I don't miss at all. Ni un minuto me hace falta estas "maravillas" de la Rep?blica.
Best Regards,
Keith
 
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plumspalmer

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Sep 3, 2002
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Wow....is it really that bad?? My wife and I are planning on moving down there in 10 days, and are looking into starting a business. Ive been looking so forward to it for about 6 months and have had tons of possitive feedback. We both are quite adventursome and have prepared ourselvesfor a challenge, but this thread gives me some real doubts. What kind of corruption can we look forward to ? Is it as much of an issue if we don't have a local partner? Keith, what are these premium prices for running a business??
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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Still trying to get a bill out of Codetel, only been 4 months!
Another trip to the office on Monday I fear :(

If anyone has any names or contact numbers of people that work at any of the utility companies, please post the details here. Having a list would be a great asset to all. If they speak English all the better!
Also, if you have stories of problems or successes, please post those as well.
 

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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Ay dios mio

All that said, I've been able to learn some important Spanish terms.

For instance, in school I learned "ma?ana" to mean tomorrow. If you're dealing with any service personnel in the DR, it means "definitely not today." If you're waiting for a week, menana can still be used to mean "not now, not later" just "not."

Also, my new favorite is "Ay dios mio" ...getting much play on the gringo circuit.

Plumspalmer, don't be fearful, just be ready to deal with a lot of headaches, no apologies, and rarely - if ever - will a "simple" problem be "simple."

Oh, and by no means try and use rational thought as a crutch, it doesn't exist here, i heard it's stuck in customs.

Don't be alarmed, just be prepared. It will also help to get a local "partner" to help you deal with some of these "nuances" of the "service" utilities.
 
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MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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Definitely a "local" partner is a must!!

At least getting started but do keep a very watchful eye on that partner or you'll find he "owns" the business and you're out on the street.

We've successfully had an erroneous bill cancelled by CDE in the days before the new company took over (only took several months stretched over two winter seasons in the DR and numerous trips to San Pedro and Santo Domingo), did the same with the new company (same story -same timeline) and usually manage to get our phone reconnected by Codetel each time we return to the DR (took three yrs after the hurricane however when the line was destroyed to re-establish a connection - the 90 day waiting period usually stretched to 120 and we always managed to leave to go home the day or week before the company was "definitely" coming to put in a new line!!!).
Wonder what it will be like this year.....
Oh yes....we also managed to have our water bill (for our sewage contaminated well) reduced to $75 pesos per day per unit from the $200 pesos per day per unit they first were charging us. That one only took two trips to San Pedro and one to Santo Domingo !!

Besides "manana" (you know what they say about tomorrow -what is that song again???) you had best learn also "horita" which means "soon". Almost as ambiguous as "manana"!
 

Jim Hinsch

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Jan 1, 2002
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I mentioned it last month, the biggest problem with the Dominican Republic is that there are too many people that think nothing of stealing, cheating, lying, and deceiving.

You'd think you people would have learned by now how to get things done in the DR. You're using the American/European method and that leads to an upset stomach.

All you need is an inside "connection". Don't have one? Go find one. You'd be surprised how fast you can get things "taken care of", from getting a phone line hooked up the same day, to clearing up a billing error.

Here is what I've learned:

1. Never present a problem. Instead, ask if they can help you. They hate problems, they love to help people.

2. Be indirect. Make your motive secondary. Even getting something done at the front desk of a big hotel will fare better if the conversation centers around how great they are and the problem is mentioned casually, in a non-premeditated secondary mention, with a smile, and between friends.

3. A cute young distressed Dominicana or some pesos will motivate that codetel installer working in the next neighborhood more than 10 visits to the main office.

4. Never talk bad to a Dominican in front of another. Better yet, don't chastise ever. It will get you nowhere and perhaps seal your fate. Every notice that Dominicans never say what is on their mind up front, it is always "quiero hablar contigo", is if they aren't talking at that moment. The stupid gringo says "hable", the smart one uses the Dominican delay tactic ahorrita as the talk will rarely be in your favor. If it is you that wants to talk, don't embarrass them.

5. Don't demand. Ask if they can give you advice on how you might go about resolving the problem. Then when they offer, tell them you don't want to bother them with YOUR problem. You'll be surprised how they will insist on helping. Be sure to tell them how great they are for going out of their way to help you and give them a "regalito". After all, they just saved you mucho dinero. Your time has value doesn't it? Want to have to come back? INSIST they accept your regalito and if not, promise to come back to do something special for them. They know you won't. It doesn't matter.

6. Don't point out errors. Ask if they can help you understand. Tell them how smart they must be to have been able to make sense of it all.

7. Ask to see the boss to speak about how fine a business they are running and when you see the boss, say the same and make a friend. Become genuinely interested in knowing them. You may even have to not mention your problem, but come back a second time just to say hello, and hey, what do would they do if they were you about .... They love to show their power.

8. Notice something and compliment. Tell them how they would be admired for such where you come from. Tell them you can tell by looking at them that you see they aren't like the rest. They love to stand out, even if it is superficial.

9. Make promises you can't deliver if need be. Nobody delivers anyway, it's the gesture that counts. Even if it is to ask about their family because you have a beautiful daughter that you would be privledged to meet their son" (depends on how far you are willing to shove your nose up their ass!)

10. Make partners in crime, not adversaries.

11. A little regalito goes a long way, especially if it is because "I like you" or "I like your style" or "We should get together some time".

Remember, connect, connect, and connect. Ask for help. Make a friend. Pick a feature and make them great. Act helpless. Never get mad at them. Use sweet words. Mi amor. Mi amigo. Act amazed, wide eyed, and dumb. Find something in common. Ay Dios, mi esposa va a matarme, ella es Dominicana y tu sabe como es, verdad? Tu sabe mas que yo. Que piensa debo hacer?

Also, a very well dressed person gets a lot more respect than a gringo in a t-shirt. After all, you want them to WANT to be your friend as well. Young ladies should dress suggestive but a class above the rest and take all inappropriate flirting as a compliment and with a smile. Remember, this is to get what YOU want. When the shoe is on the other foot, do as you please.
 
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MommC

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Mar 2, 2002
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You are sooooo right on the money Jim!!

or should I say regalito!
;)

Best descriptive narrative of how to get things done I've read!!
Just make sure you make a friend of a general or colonel and you're 9/10th of the way to having things ironed out quickly!!
Throw in a good home cooked dinner with a couple bottles of good wine and after dinner scotch and you've almost got it made!
 

BushBaby

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Jan 1, 2002
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All you who are looking to move here (AND those of you who live here already & DON'T get your own way) take note of the wise Jim's words!!!
Being TYPICALLY British & used to fighting to get my way, I often forget the sane words above & yell, scream & threaten the people I am talking to - what do I get in return??? A laugh, smirk & ignored!!! When I see that, I revert to being the stupid gringo that is mouthing off only because that is how we gringos do it - the stupid 'STRESS' life that we are used to!! A quick "How stupid of me mi amor", "Permisso, soy stupido" & an acknowledgement of how much better way of life the Dominican way is, usually gets me back into their good books & negotiations can start again!!

Having been here 10 years, I have an understanding of Spanish & can communicate my needs/wishes to the person I am talking to. However, I always start conversations with "Habla Ingles?" (which indicates I am not Dominican just in case there was any doubt), & when the response is "Pocito" or "NON" apologise in advance for my bad Spanish & request their understanding & SLOW responses because I can not understand FAST Spanish (is there any other type in the DR?). This usually gets ME in the right frame of mind to use Jim's advice of "asking" rather than demanding, PLUS it gets the person I am talking to in the fram of mind to HELP this stupid gringo who is at least TRYING to speak our language. Don't EXPECT English (or German, French, Italian etc) for although they MAY be fluent, they will feignignorance BECAUSE you are not TRYING to use their native tongue. It is also a way of ignoring your rantings if things get hard for them because they can say "No comprendi". - Grahame
 

Snuffy

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May 3, 2002
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So happy to see a reality check...

I am so happy to see people stepping up to the plate and telling it like it is. So often on this board people paint this country as a wonderful paradise. What a nice feeling to find that I am not some old crabby person losing my mind. I actually am correct about just how difficult this country is.

******Come here and limit your exposure...that is wise. Learn how to just live here first. Then you can try and ease into a business....I said EASE into it.

This is what I believe you need to do. You try to start a biz that requires a minimal investment up front before you start seeing a profit. See how it goes. Again...limit your exposure. Then you slowly invest more as profits justify. Don't come here and sink your life savings into something...they will eat you alive.

Never mention your success or profits. To everyone else you are just a struggling individual who is barely eeking out a living. Drive a used car....live modestly. Don't flaunt any success.

You have to have patience. They will eventually correct a mistake but that does not always mean you will get money back that was involved in the mistake. Something that takes a day to correct in the USA can take a month here. So don't get fixated on a problem. Just say "oh well, eventally they will correct it".

This really is not the time to come here thinking about a business. The economy is shrinking, tourism is floundering. People are more desperate.

Best of Luck.
 

andy a

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Feb 23, 2002
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Remember where your're at

I too am glad to hear a few people "tell it like it is".

Just as life in general, one should base his decisions on a realistic assessment of reality. Ignoring or glossing over the problems does not serve the ex-pat, and especially not the potential (and possibly naive) future ex-pat.

Although I did not coin the phrase, "...Remember where you're at", it is often appropriate even as it provides a little comic relief. Actually, it is a positive expression because it reminds us that although there are unforeseen and even unimaginable problems, we each voted with our feet for the DR, for whatever reason(s).
 

Pib

Goddess
Jan 1, 2002
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Jim I can see that your wisdom teeth just came out ;)

It seems like your post came straight out of "How to make friends and influence people". And trust me, it works anywhere, but more so in DR.
 

Eddy

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
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Right on Jim

Best advice I've seen posted here in a long time. Even after 19 years, I'm still learning.
 

Jim Hinsch

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Jan 1, 2002
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Of course, if you are bored, you can play a game. Try to play it straight and when you don't like their answers, use big loud responses and talk like a Dominican, "COOOMO? AYYYY dios MIIIo. TU ta LOco? IMposSIble. TOdos son laDROnes. Maldita LadROnes. NO VOY a paGAR! NO PAgo.

As they try to interrupt, you walk away talking over the top of them, no me imPORTa. laDROnes. NO pago. no PAgo. YO se que HAgo. YO se. ... as you walk out the door.

This behaviour is not expected of a gringo. The other customers will just watch quietly with raised eyebrows and a smirk.
 

Cleef

Bronze
Feb 24, 2002
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AYYYY dios MIIIo

more respect than a gringo in a t-shirt

AYYYY dios MIIIo!!! I'm so bummed I have to get rid of my T-shirts.

Great post. If there was DR1 forum Hall of Fame this would be an instant entrant. Much gleaned.
 

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
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Jim

That was excellent. Let me add about furniture companies. I just ordered a set of garden furniture from Frank Muebles on Isabel Aguiar Street. It was last Saturday. Delivery was promised with urgency for this past monday. I am still waiting.

When I called them several times about it, they even laughed at me. Made fun of me. One of the said "Si no te llega el Lunes quizas te llegue en el 2003....heheheheh!

I called yesterday and the salesman told me my furniture was probably burned by the rioters when they ran out of tires to burn.

Well, the positive side of this is that thieves will have to wait a few more days to see my latest acquisition to start planning how to steal it.

TW
 

rafael

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Jan 2, 2002
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I have tried it both ways. I start off nice, but lose patience easily. one night in the Disco Fantasy which was sort of dead. I order tow beers. I LOVE Presidente. I take one sip and it tasted horrible. Sometimes if the beer has changed temp too much it gets a bad after taste and I usually can deal with it, but these beeers were undrinkable.

I called the waitress over and said mi amor these beers don't taste right. She asked how. I explained, and she said "what do you want me to do about it"! I said, I can't drink them, she says "no mi problema"!

I said you taste it. She said no, it wasn't her problem!

I politely asked what I was supposed to do with this undrinkable beer. She replied whatever you want, not my problem!

What did I do?. . . . . ..Proceeded to pour the entire contents onto the carpet. She freaked and started yelling. I grabbed my girlfriend and headed for the door.

She starts following me demanding that I pay for it> I politely explain that I didn't drink it. She said if I don't pay she'll be in trouble. I laugh and say "no mi problema".

The bouncer tried to block my exit for a second. I just called his bluff and said I want to see the manager. I explained that this waitress has no business EVER dealing with customers, and went back to being nice. I explained that I LOVE Presidente and in over 30 trips down there have never had one that I would not drink, except that one.

He escorted us to a new table with new waiter and got us two beers on the house. The waitress is no longer there.