What would it take to curtail corruption......

What would it take to curtail corruption...... ?

What an interesting question, one that will take almost as to answer as it will to remedy. The answer is as simple as it is complex ? Vote! Power to change is in the peoples hands. The government & military are simply in the tools of the people. Why is Israel so powerful in the US? Because a minority of the people, the Jewish Americans, are organized and because they VOTE in blocks in EVERY election.
Politicians work for YOU, not the other way around. Have you ever heard people complain about a situation and then you ask them who they voted for & they tell you that they didn?t even vote? This drives me crazy ? if you don?t vote you don?t have the right to complain! Your vote DOES count ? look at the last election in the US. President Bush won by the smallest margin in history! The absentee ballots were called into play for the 1st time that I can remember.
We have voted in a man that has moved our country into the 21st century. President Mejia has taken steps that no other President has ? we are accountable for our actions. The tolls were raised, why? Because if they HAD to be, and for a long time now. Look at the steps he has made recently to attack the dependency on foreign oil. The ethanol project he just approved has the potential to create thousands of jobs and revitalize our, once great, sugar market. A 20% reduction in foreign oil imports as well as a reduction in car emissions is just the start, where are the raw materials to make the ethanol coming from? HERE ? from OUR farmers producing on land that is now lying fallow.
The answer lies with us ? get interested in local issues & vote. It doesn?t matter what your views are ? Just Vote! That is the way to end corruption in this country and we are on our way.

Hipolito is the Answer

Hipolito is the answer? But she said "serious replies only."

Are you serious? Do you understand what he has done so far?

I don't think you can tell people to go out and vote and in this way end corruption--not even if a majority of the people go to the polls.
Something has to happen first to trigger breaking the cycle.

Can expats and permanent residents do anything about corruption; I personally don't think so. Maybe once efforts to change the system are underway, but not before.

Corruption is ingrained and accepted. This is not just true of the DR, it is also true of Venezuela and, I'm sure, many other Latin American nations.

I think it will need to start with a few young, honest political leaders who are personally opposed to corruption and committed to breaking the cycle in the DR. It isn't enough that they campaign against corruption, they also have to demonstrate that they won't tolerate corruption in any form. If the country is lucky enough to get this sort of leadership, I think the people will respond positively and momentum will build that will make it difficult, if not impossible, for future leaders to return to the old, corrupt, way of doing business.

Hipolito's Accomplishments

What has he done so far? Allow me to list his accomplishments:

- Increased the national debt exponentially through completely usurous foreign loans.

- Indebted every Dominican man, woman, child (and their children) beyond their reasonable means. (And I won't even ask where the money has gone).

- Balooned the government payroll with no-show, political pay-off jobs

- Destabilized the economy

- Set-back all previous improvements to government operations

- Perfected a tax and export code designed to destroy business and the middle class

- Watched an electricity crisis hurdle out of control before ostensibly solving the problem by, of course, borrowing more money and zapping the middle class some more.

- Allowed major infrastructure degredation (forget about improvements)

- Changed the time zone, then changed it back

- And last and most pathetically, failed to get platanos into schools.

As Hipolito supporter, you'll have your work cut out for you in this forum. What he lacks in intelligence he makes up for in shiftlessness.

The real answer to the corruption problem is education, education and education.

"Vote! Power to change is in the peoples hands. "
That how the crooks get there.
"What he lacks in intelligence he makes up for in shiftlessness"
What a statement, remember what I have said many times "Intelligence cannot be Legislated."

That's just it, Rocco

Rocco,
That's just it -- we understand all too well what Hipo has done to (notice I don't say "done for") La Rep?blica Dominicana . That's why most of us are so critical of him and his government corrupt and bumbling botellas , otherwise known as The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight (But They Sure Know How to Pocket That Cash!).
Atentamente,
Keith

Board Etiquette is that We Don't Hijack Someone Else's Thread

Rocco, since you have only posted a couple of times, you may not know that board etiquette is that we don't hijack someone else's thread.

Throwing in a paragraph of campaign rhetoric into the middle of your post has obviously gotten this thread way off the track. If you want to sign the praises of Hippo, you should start a new thread with that subject. You can be sure that you will get a lot of response.

MommC: what it would take is something that neither you or I will ever see. A Body Politic that is educated, active and fairly rational.
I will agree with the need to vote, but to vote without the party instilled blindness that goes on nowadays: I am red, whit or purple, no matter what.!!
this is the sort of thinking that brought us this latest government, clearly lackluster.
FYI Rocco: There is NO land that is not being exploited! Especially no land that can grow corn or sugar cane!! And you say you live here??

HB

The PLD may have been known as "comendo solo," but the PRD is truly "comendo todo." Pardon my bad Spanish.

To think or believe that the PRD is not taking their share of the loot is to deny that the sky is blue. And as a businessman here on-island, I can testify that it's a lot harder to make a living under the current government. They have absolutely no concept of how to improve the business climate and tourist enviroment necessary to generate more revenue to service the vastly expanded debt load.

To get rid of corruption is going to require a profound change in the character of the DR's government and it's people and I just don't think we'll see it in our lifetimes (although I hope differently). It may be that a full-scale revolution will be the only answer.

Generational Shift

MommC,
During my time living in the DR (1995-99), my wife was an officer in the DR head office of a foreign corporation. Sometime in 1997 that office gained a new chief, an American. He decided to get to know all the officers by meeting them in pairs for "chats" on how they viewed the local scene and the firm's place in it.
The American chief, enthused because he had just met President Leonel Fernandez and read about how the PLD was going to root out corruption and change how the DR government did everything in order to make it efficient, transparent and dependable, asked how my wife & her supervisor whether they thought Leonel would suceed in getting the corruption out of the DR. My wife's supervisor, an elder Dominican with PLD leanings, gave an optimistic response. My wife -- probably characteristically showing a knitted brow and clouded face -- was asked by the American how long she thought rooting out corruption would take. "A generation," she replied. "What do you mean?" he asked, puzzled. [He shouldn't have been -- he had previously served as national office head in Ecuador, whose government was known for its corruption.] "Corruption became ingrained under the Trujillos and Balaguer. We can't hope to be free of corruption before all the politicians who grew up under that system die out. Only then do some honest men have a chance of imposing clean and transparent government, and even then it won't be easy."
When she told me that story later that same day, I told her that perhaps she was being too harsh in judging her countrymen. She shook her head. "Keith, you can afford to think optimistically. You grew up in a country that had its Tammany Hall a century ago. Leonel may mean well, but he's fighting decades of tradition."
Looking back now -- especially in light of the allegations of corruption among Leonel's own government and how quickly and shamelessly Hipo took the government back to its worst habits, I'm sorry to say that I think she may have been simply realistic.
Generational change, folks. We start working to change the attitudes of the young up-and-coming politicos, but don't expect real results before the Hipo's and old-style pols like him die out.
Just my two cents worth.
Regretfully,
Keith

Hillbilly said:

MommC: ...A Body Politic that is educated, active and fairly rational.
I will agree with the need to vote, but to vote without the party instilled blindness that goes on nowadays: I am red, whit or purple, no matter what.!!
this is the sort of thinking that brought us this latest government, ...
HB

Click to expand...

I think you are on to something about having active, rational, educated voters. I believe that would go a long way toward ending corruption- particularly when coupled with a new generation of honest, righteous leaders. How can we bring that about? Are there certain programs, religions, systems of education, environments or other things that would foster such a change?

Pessimists are Cowards ? The power IS in our hands.

Ken ? You state that Board Etiquette is that ?We Don't Hijack Someone Else's Thread? without comprehending my statement. What did I say at the close - The answer lies with US ? get interested in local issues & vote. It doesn?t matter what your views are ? Just Vote! Are you telling us to lose hope? That we are sheep that are forced to be another Banana Republic? Can we not see some good in the progress that is made ? whomever gets the credit?

Take your obvious passion for this country and air it ? don?t limit others or pigeon hole us because of who we support. Yes I believe in Hippolito but to say that I am ?Throwing in a paragraph of campaign rhetoric? is to show that you haven?t grasped my post. Read again - The answer lies with US ? get interested in local issues & vote. It doesn?t matter what your views are ? Just Vote! That means WE have the power. To agree to disagree ? that is democracy at its best ? what we are doing now.

Not views like Hlywud, I don?t like to personalize this Hlywud, who state that ?That how the crooks get there.? IS taking a cowards way out! What is the choice? DON?T vote? Then you REALLY have no voice in what is happening. It is SO easy to sit back & throw stones from the bleachers. You would have me believe that voting is how the crooks get in? I refuse to be a sheep and allow the few to make decisions for me.

Andy B says that a revolution is the answer. He is right - but not with guns, with votes! In the end Porfio_Rubirosa said it best - The real answer to the corruption problem is education, education and education.

Votes are normally the answer. But the problem is that you've got to have honest politicians to vote for and the DR political system does not generate them. In fact, it penalizes honesty and rewards corruption with even greater power. And not only is the system to blame, but the general populace is equally guilty for not only continuing to support the crooks, but idolizing them for using the system to get rich.

For change to occur a moral code must be instilled in the people, the very people that seem to have an amoral attitude about the entire mess. Revolution? I'm afraid so and it won't occur at the ballot box.

I agree with Andy that change needs to come from within. Look at the power company situation from the view point of someone from Mars. If you explained that the power company provides a service and then the consumer refused to pay for that service the Martian would laugh and say ?Of course, the company would be a fool to continue to supply.?
Try that at the Vesuvio Restaurant tomorrow night ? ?Ah, I?ll have the Porterhouse Steak, Medium Rare ? My wife will have the Lobster Thermador and bring us a bottle of 1943 Ch?teau Expensivo and Oh by the way, you can bring the check but I?m not paying because I think the prices are too high or I deserve it because I?m poor!? And if you were the owner of that restaurant want you do the next time you saw that customer in your dining room???
But we all hate the power companies so we justify the non-payment in one way or the other. THAT my friend is corruption! Attitudes that support non-payment of bills are the breeding grounds of the NEXT generation of corrupt elected officials. Who do we blame then? The voters for putting them in or the father that educated his child in the art of corruption ? BY EXAMPLE!

Andy, I share some of your views - but revolution isn't one of them. I believe in US.

The power of 1, MommaC - The power of 1......

MommaC your question is a deep one ? one that speaks of a societal problem not political. The power of 1 is the 1st person to stand up & say ?NO! It?s not OK to do it because everyone else is.? We all must lead by example ? don?t be afraid to be different. We don?t have to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge because Johnny did it.
Why is corruption rampant? Because we allow it ? no we don?t allow it, we encourage it, we teach it to our children. It is like slowly introducing them to poison and wondering why in 20 years they are ill.

When you read in the DR1 news that revenues are 22% but social spending and investments are actually down...when you look at the numbers....you realize the crushing blow of the last few years...

with all the money that has been stolen:

we could have already paid off the govt Electric debt many times over....
we could have built energy distribution systems...
we could have built energy generation systems..
we could have subsidized education...

Let me ask you, Rocco, now that these power subsidies are going away, whats going to happen to that money that would have otherwise been spent? Do you think the tax payers are going to get a rebabte?

Read Porfio's post....he's got it just about right