Hermanas Mirabal

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urbanus

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Como es posible que Jaime David Fernandez Mirabal, siendo un legislador dominicano y de visita en Lawrence, Massachusetts, sabiendo que Ciriaco de la Rosa, uno de los asesinos confesos de las hermanas Mirabal, vivia en esa ciudad, no hiciera nada para tratar de extraditar este verdugo para ser sometido a la justicia dominicana, ni el consulado dominicano en Boston, tambien sabiendo eso, tampoco no hizo nada?.
La reaccion de Jaime David Fernandez Mirabal cuando le mostraron al asesino en las calles: "Ese pobre diablo es solo una victima del sistema".
El sanguinario asesino Ciriaco de la Rosa murio este ano en un hospital de esa ciudad norteamericana.
 
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Cira

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Gracias por la noticia, lastima que no podamos hacer nada, ya es tarde.
 
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urbanus

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Aclaracion sobre el asesino Ciriaco de la Rosa

Segun una congresista dominicana, descendiente directa de las Hermanas Mirabal (en visita a Massachusetts, EE.UU.): "quien vio al principal asesino (Ciriaco de la Rosa) de estas hermanas, caminando con impunidad en Lawrence, (MA) no fue Jaime David Fernandez Mirabal, sino un primo de este, en aquel entonces, legislador dominicano". Aun asi, no se justifica no haber hecho nada cuando pudo, como hacer contacto con representantes del gobierno dominicano en ese estado americano o directamente con la justicia dominicana, para extraditar ese maldito.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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As I and others have said before, the Dominican Republic has not been capable of confronting its Trujillista past in a complete and responsible manner.....murderers are still among us.
 
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Golo100

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Sorry to dissapoint you

What's all the fuzz about? What did the Mirabal sisters and Manolo Tavarez do for DR anyway? Are you kidding me? Show me one thing that they did that made the difference and that has helped Dominican Republic be any better?
I know, it has made Jaime David and their family richer. Just like all the post-Trujillo heroes and leftist politicians who have robbed our country of its riches.
I'm sorry for our neo-patriots who ignore our history.
I feel the same about the overrated Padres de la Patria, specially Duarte. What the hell did he do? He was even shone by his own Trinitarios.
What is pre-Trujillo history all about? It's all about bandits fighting each other until Uncle Sam put some order in our Customs house and then let Trujillo organize something of a "state". Buenaventura Baez, Santana, Lilis, general Luperon and the rest were all bandits cut from the same mold. Even their names azules y rojos, boludos y coludos just give you an idea that "tigueraje" was born with the Trinitarios and so on.
Our history is a history of shame, corruption and winners take all.
Even my ancestors, Luis and Miguel Tejera played in this game. Luis killed president Horacio Vasquez, another corrupt ass. Miguel Tejera was the key leader in the movement to bring about our true independence, that is, when the Marines left. But before that, we were never independent. This was not a state. It never was...until Trujillo.
We needed a real transition without the Mirabals, the Tavarez Justos and Caama?o, who all did more harm than good.
Golo
 
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A.Hidalgo

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You're not disappointing me. Sounds like you having a major frustration attack going there primo. Take a deep breath...then let us have it.:cheeky:
 
bob saunders

bob saunders

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The Mirabels are romanticised because they are seen as powerless women willing to take on/defy a ruthless dictator- this appeals to many because of the Samson - Goliath thing.
 
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Chip

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Wow, Golo doesn't hold anything back - this is certainly something to think about, I wonder what the Ogre would say, being a historian.

As far as the OP's question, has the statue of limitiations run out already - o sea, que tal vez ya se vencio el tiempo de poner cargos en contra del Sr Ciriaco? Being famous or not, a person was still murdered and if the assailant is at large and is not being prosecuted this is a shame.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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bob saunders said:
The Mirabels are romanticised because they are seen as powerless women willing to take on/defy a ruthless dictator- this appeals to many because of the Samson - Goliath thing.
Click to expand...

Nothing romantic about three women having more balls than most men. In those times to take on Trujillo was heroic to say the least. Btw I think you meant David and Goliath.
 
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Baitoa75

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Luis Tejera was the ringleader of the men who killed President Caceres, not Horacio Vazquez. Caceres' assasination ended a short era of stability which culminated in the American occupation, hence Tejera was indirectly responsible for one of the great tragedies of the Dominican State. His actions helped loosen the "bandits fighting each other until Uncle Sam put some order". I wouldn't yell to the winds too loud to let anyone know that this fool Tejera was a blood relative of my family. As for Duarte, he was the idealogue that set the stage for the Dominican State. At a time when many of our leaders saw a protectorate as a viable alternative to independence from haiti Duarte never wavered in his conviction that the Dominican people should seek total and pure independence dependant on no foreign power. It's not what Duarte did but his thoughts and ideas which are honored by his coveted post in the Dominican pantheon of heroes. As for Luperon being a bandit, pick up a history book. Few peoples have produced such an authentic patriots amongst there mist as the Dominican Republic's Gregorio Luperon. This is a man who dedicated and risked his life for the cause of Dominican independence on more then one occasion and who despised tyranny in all its forms. How many alive now can say the same? More respect for that gentleman is indeed in order from those who appreciate the fact that they are of Dominican origin. Santana, Lilis, and Baez can be mentioned in the same breath, but not Luperon.
 
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Chirimoya

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Our one and only Golo came out of his burrow, saw his shadow and went back in again, although probably for more than six weeks...
 
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Ogre of the Caribbean

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Golo100 said:
What's all the fuzz about? What did the Mirabal sisters and Manolo Tavarez do for DR anyway? Are you kidding me? Show me one thing that they did that made the difference and that has helped Dominican Republic be any better?
I know, it has made Jaime David and their family richer. Just like all the post-Trujillo heroes and leftist politicians who have robbed our country of its riches.
I'm sorry for our neo-patriots who ignore our history.
I feel the same about the overrated Padres de la Patria, specially Duarte. What the hell did he do? He was even shone by his own Trinitarios.
What is pre-Trujillo history all about? It's all about bandits fighting each other until Uncle Sam put some order in our Customs house and then let Trujillo organize something of a "state". Buenaventura Baez, Santana, Lilis, general Luperon and the rest were all bandits cut from the same mold. Even their names azules y rojos, boludos y coludos just give you an idea that "tigueraje" was born with the Trinitarios and so on.
Our history is a history of shame, corruption and winners take all.
Even my ancestors, Luis and Miguel Tejera played in this game. Luis killed president Horacio Vasquez, another corrupt ass. Miguel Tejera was the key leader in the movement to bring about our true independence, that is, when the Marines left. But before that, we were never independent. This was not a state. It never was...until Trujillo.
We needed a real transition without the Mirabals, the Tavarez Justos and Caama?o, who all did more harm than good.
Golo
Click to expand...


Okay. Fair enough.

The Mirabal Sisters were(in my opinion) not pivotal figures in Dominican history. Yes, they died brutally. Yes, they were heavily involved in anti-Trujillo activities, I mean Minerva and another sister(not sure which one) were central to IJ4(June 14th Movement) that has been pointed out in history books. However, did their deaths bring down Trujillo? No. Trujillo's assassins were involved for different reasons. The murder of the Mirabals was shocking, but plans were already in motion. Antonio de la Maza wanted to avenge his brother's murder. The motives of the others are well known(often disputed) but none the less in print.

As for the others, the revolutionaries-well, I guess it all comes down to a matter of opinion. Many of my Dominican friends supported the intervention, one said to me of Cammano, "He would have given the country to Castro." That's up for debate-but it's always easy to judge years after an event. At the time, just a few years after the fall of Cuba to the Reds, people were scared.

Golo's depiction of pre-Trujillo history was a bit harsh-but not so far off the mark.

Trujillo created the modern Dominican Republic. A mixture of good and bad. But not all bad. Let's try to judge him in a more honest way. My research, my interviews have let me see things much more clearly than before. The people I interviewed ahd no problem seeing the the positive achievements of Trujillo. I'm embarrassed to reread some of my old posts, made so early into my research. The interviews made all the difference...

There-my opinion.
 
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Baitoa75

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?De verdad?

"Golo's depiction of pre-Trujillo history was a bit harsh-but not so far off the mark."

It was so far of the mark that I can only recommend that whomever posted this comment and the one it was based on continue doing their "research" and conducitng their "interviews". Not all of the dominant figures in dominican figures where disinterested bandits. That's doing a disservice to all the men who put their lives on the line so that Dominicans might have a little piece of land to call "Patria". Duverge is a prime example of the apoltical soldier who loved his country and served it bravely only to be put to death by the orders of a jealous tyrant. Read some more about him. Luperon, as already discussed, deserves more than his share of respect from the Dominican people. plenty of written works on him, even his personal correspondance is available. As for Trujillo's regime having its plus side, so what? Nazi Germany had its plusses. Does that mean we're supposed to extoll Hitler and view him as the mold for future statesman? Of course not. Trujillo was a bloody criminal who's excesses stain the history of the Dominican people and no amount of revisionism will change that fact. If anything Trujillo was the culmination of the caudillo politics that preceeded him and not some new political creature that changed all that. For all his pomp and cermonious displays of "Dominicanidad" Trujillo was still a traitor to the dominican people. His aggrandizement of the Dominican state was to suit his ego, not to ease the suffering or improve the lot of his countrymen. Our forebears who were on the island at the time were nothing but his slaves in practice if not in law. That's not what I consider to be ideal or even something to look upon with fondness.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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Ogre of the Caribbean said:
However, did their deaths bring down Trujillo?no
Click to expand...

Trujillo had a pretty good reason in his mind to eliminated these women. Not rocket science to understand that he felt a certain amount of threat to his power coming from their quarters. That said we must understand that the sisters as far as we know from historical records, had no plans whatsoever to use violence and assassinate him, but for ulterior reasons their deaths did facilitate others to carry out the deed only 6 months late.
 
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Ogre of the Caribbean

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Baitoa75 said:
"Golo's depiction of pre-Trujillo history was a bit harsh-but not so far off the mark."

It was so far of the mark that I can only recommend that whomever posted this comment and the one it was based on continue doing their "research" and conducitng their "interviews". Not all of the dominant figures in dominican figures where disinterested bandits. That's doing a disservice to all the men who put their lives on the line so that Dominicans might have a little piece of land to call "Patria". Duverge is a prime example of the apoltical soldier who loved his country and served it bravely only to be put to death by the orders of a jealous tyrant. Read some more about him. Luperon, as already discussed, deserves more than his share of respect from the Dominican people. plenty of written works on him, even his personal correspondance is available. As for Trujillo's regime having its plus side, so what? Nazi Germany had its plusses. Does that mean we're supposed to extoll Hitler and view him as the mold for future statesman? Of course not. Trujillo was a bloody criminal who's excesses stain the history of the Dominican people and no amount of revisionism will change that fact. If anything Trujillo was the culmination of the caudillo politics that preceeded him and not some new political creature that changed all that. For all his pomp and cermonious displays of "Dominicanidad" Trujillo was still a traitor to the dominican people. His aggrandizement of the Dominican state was to suit his ego, not to ease the suffering or improve the lot of his countrymen. Our forebears who were on the island at the time were nothing but his slaves in practice if not in law. That's not what I consider to be ideal or even something to look upon with fondness.
Click to expand...

I am aware that there were individuals who were working to improve their nation and all that, but how many of them made it into power? The guys running things-the ones ruthless enough to claw to the top, were not all noble patriots. as for your view on Trujillo-far too emotional. Yes, many dictatorships have achievements-but that is not to say people should forget or forgive the bad. Your post was just an emotional outburst-not very constructive.

I've never been one to deny the bad that Trujillo did, but why ignore what he accomplished?
 
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Ogre of the Caribbean

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A.Hidalgo said:
Trujillo had a pretty good reason in his mind to eliminated these women. Not rocket science to understand that he felt a certain amount of threat to his power coming from their quarters. That said we must understand that the sisters as far as we know from historical records, had no plans whatsoever to use violence and assassinate him, but for ulterior reasons their deaths did facilitate others to carry out the deed only 6 months late.
Click to expand...

Did their murders really drive the assassins? I don't believe so. None of the people I interviewed(who were involved in the assassination, or whose relatives were) ever mentioned the Mirabals as being the reasons behind the assassination. People had a wide variety of motives. I'm not attempting to belittle the Mirabals and thier activities, but lets keeps things in perspective.
 
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Baitoa75

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"I've never been one to deny the bad that Trujillo did, but why ignore what he accomplished?"

Because it should never be emulated or used as an example. He deserves to be in the trash heap of history. Only been in here a short time and I already see that their are no shortage of mental midgets here....
 
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