Another "lunatic" idea by DR politicians

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
2,138
56
0
Once again, our politicians seem to be sniffing something. Otherwise you would not hear so much nonsense. I am not sure if you heard the one about a Congressman calling for changing the name of the San Cristobal province and giving it the name of Pena Gomez. This nut was not even the province's senator!

Now the ultimate idiocy is the proposal by some to name the Malecon, which has been known forever as George Washington Avenue as the Avenida Hermanas Mirabal.

Those of us who live and love this city would find this outrageous. I am sure Uncle Sam would also look at this as a slap in the face. There is already a Mirabal Avenue in one of the popular neighborhoods. The Malecon has already been divided in four sections with different names. Of course, nobody respects any other name but Goerge Washington's and Malecon. The section by Avenida del Puerto was named after Caamano. But who cares. Have you ever heard even the most vocal revolutionary call the Malecon by Caamano's name? Can you imagine purchasing a $4 million condo on a street with the Mirabal sisters's name? What would happen to the Torre Washington and the Malecon Center. Can you picture living in a luxury hirise called Mirabal Tower? It would be the equivalent of buying at any Martin Luther King Drive in the USA. This is not a racist thing.

Caamano was a nobody. So were the Mirabal sisters. What did they do for this country besides opposing Trujillo? Many think they gave their life for democracy. I don't. They just hated Trujillo because he chased one of the sisters and she didn't like him. That's it. The other one was married to Tavares Justo and one can understand her hate. Tavares Justo was a frustrated revolutionary who sacrifized his life for stupidity. He knew he was no Fidel Castro, but he still decided to got o the mountains and die there. So did Caamano. We are not talking here about Che Guevara quality people!! I would prefer Che Guevara Boulevard if it were the case.

I could care less what they call the Malecon. To me it will always be George Washington Avenue. So it's Lincoln Avenue and Churchill Avenue. Keep the fake Dominican heroes to the oriental zone and small towns where people still believe in fables.

TW
 

jojocho

New member
Jul 10, 2002
261
0
0
Are you dominican????

I find your comments highly offensive. Only an ignorant with no real understanding or appreciation of Dominican history could portrait these people as you have. They might not be WWII heroes, or people with inmaculate pasts, but they are OUR heroes and they represent the struggles that our nation has had to endure. I agree that there are somethings that are better left unchanged for simplicity's sake (like the AILA!!) but the reasons that you have given are ridiculous and offensive to our nation.
 
Last edited:

Pavan

Member
Jan 18, 2002
512
2
18
Easy Jocoho...easy....what good will it do to change the Historic name of San Cristobal with that of a mortal who 50 years from now no one will remember? Pena Gomez may be fresh in everyone's minds today but...even 10 years from now..who gives a shit. They will be changing names back to San Cristobal.....

The Dom Rep exists that way it is today more because of the Washington influence than that from the Hermanas Mirabal saga. Why try to run history out when it is long proven not to lend itself to be re-written.

Had Pena Gomez come to power DR would have been another Haiti...as it is it is just barely managing to hold on with these idiots at the help......
 

jojocho

New member
Jul 10, 2002
261
0
0
Let's make something clear right now ... I don't approve of any name change for any province, be it in honor of Pena Gomez, Balaguer, Bosch, Guzman, Majluta or whoever (or is it whomever?). I think the provinces, airports and streets that already exist should keep their names. Period. These people all have their merits, but only time will tell if the contribution of these individuals to dominican society will be worth remembering.

What I don't approve of is the way that extremely important historical figures of the Dominican Republic were bashed in the first posting. Nobody has the right to speak of those people in such a despective way, or to ridicule them in this forum. That type of talk only demonstrates plain ignorance.
 
Last edited:

Pepe

New member
Jan 1, 2002
114
0
0
AIPC

I would change the name of the airport to what it was originally:
Aeropuerto Internacional Punta Caucedo.
 
Apr 26, 2002
1,806
10
0
We're talking about a country with a very limited number of heroes. Golo would like to dismantle about half of them. In the name of national cohesion and development of a national psyche, their legends should be further developed with an emphasis on the morality of their actions.

Washington, Lincoln, Kennedy, Churchill and DeGaul (to name a few streets of La Capital) all, upon very close examination, had major flaws. But, to forment national pride and provide a national identity for schoolchildren, the flaws have been filtered out and they have been converted into almost superhuman national heroes that help create a nationa identity and morality - even if that morality is fabricated (e.g. George Washington and the cherry tree). It's a bit biblical, actually. What's so bad about this?

For this reason, I'm fine with anything named after the Mirabals. But I agree that if the PRD names everything after PRD politicians of little or no accomplishment or historic legend, the succeeding governments will just change them again.

What will Pena Gomez International Airport be called ten years from now? Johnny Jones International Airport? Danilo Medina International Airport? Sammy Sosa International Airport? To the victor goes the spoils?
 

JOHNNY HONDA

Motorcycle MANIAC
Sep 25, 2002
771
0
0
I o believe that Sammys name is already on the highway between the airport and San Pedro,anyway i agree with jojocho about not denigrating Dominican heros,i am not Dominican however who but Dominicans have the right to decide which of their country men are heros to them?What is unimportant to us may very well be very important to someone else,no matter what each of those mentioned are factual parts of history and mean something to a lot of people.
 

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
2,138
56
0
Jojocho

Jojo: As far as ignorance, I dont think you can touch me with a 50 foot pole as far knowledge of Dominican Republic and yes I am Dominican. But you are just like most Dominicans....extremely naive. You only live in present history. To you anybody shoved in front of you by the "limpiasacos" of today is a hero. We have firm heroes who have been engraved in our minds already in the mold of the Washingtons and the Lincolns. Duarte,Sanchez and Mella to name a few. They got their streets, although these guys were just figureheads in their time.

To some Pe?a Gomez is a hero. But of what? What did he do besides take a salary from the PRD party for 30 years without ever holding a regular job? The guy never worked a day in his life. He travelled abroad every other month at our expense. He wore $2000 dollar tailored suits and lived like a king. Can you tell me what he did? If you know any history...what did the Mirabals do besides one being a wife of Tavares Justo and the other just an opposer of Trujillo. Does that make them heroes? Did the fact they get killed make them heroes? What about the 30,000 Haitians Trujillo got rid off ...are they heroes? Maybe we should have a Haitians Killed By Trujillo Boulevard?

Hey man...if you compare some of our mickey mouse heroes with worldwide personalities who had an impact on mankind, you better take your argument somewhere else. I am too much into macro politics and history to bother with midgets. Almost every capital of the world has a Kennedy Boulevard. The Mirabals are nobodies. I have more respect for Jackie Kennedy, who lived thru a true impacting historical event that is still imprinted in everyones mind.

TW
 

Pavan

Member
Jan 18, 2002
512
2
18
That was a good reply Golo....I think you are the Aristotle Onassis of DR1....cheers!!
 

Jersey Devil

Bronze
Jul 5, 2002
686
0
16
My two cents worth,

Obviously any party in power likes to test it
limits. Now I am not comparing the Mejia administration
to Stalin or Trujillo, but both of those dicatators changed
names of cities and places to suit their "needs" (EGOS).
Then names were changed back. Although I would be
annoyed by changing the name of Avienda
George Washington, in the great scheme of things
it would not matter much. I still think of George Washington
as one of the great leaders in the history of the world.
Maybe they can do it like in NYC, where they name a street
corner or area after a new "celebrity" but the street name
remains the same.

God Bless,

Moca
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
Surprisingly, golo has said what a huge amount of Dominicans know and will hardly admit. The Mirabals have become symbols because this macho society thinks in medieval terms about its women and when Trujillo's henchmen killed these young girls, they became martyrs. That is a fact of life. Are they worthy? I am not one to judge that, but in people's minds they certainly are.

I have said exactly what golo said about Pe?a in my classes , for years.. He was a politician in the European mold. Work for the party and the party will feed, clothe and baby you. Leonel is the same, by the way) Golo is right, that and give a daily harangue on the radio is about all he ever did. FACT. His negritud, the questions as to his birthplace, his barricade discourse of socialist/communist/populist tone made him famous among the poor and disenfranchised. It also kept him from ever becoming elected president. Just the fact that his widow is still riding on being the Widow Pe?a - G?mez when she has no more right to use a hyphenated last name than I do. She is Peggy viuda Pe?a, but no, she has to have the "- " so that she doesn't become a has been, never really was.

I didn't like it when Cape Ca?averal was changed to Cape Kennedy, either, and I like Idlewild but admit that JFK is easier to use...I still use, as do most travel agents "Las Americas" Ever notice that there are not many Eisenhouer streets? And he was a far better president than Kennedy ever was, however less inspiring...

HB on a slight rant, but then, I did build the JFK Rural School #2 in Jaibon, Pueblo Nuevo, Valverde., but that was the people's choice of name, not mine...I would have said the Biencito Gomez school....
 

Pavan

Member
Jan 18, 2002
512
2
18
Names matter when Macro not Micro events are seen. Gandhi is a big name in the world. But, the new generation (including myself) do not agree with the Gandhian principal of one country and isolated world.

Rather one world and many countries is the way. Maybe and I say maybe God made the world...but us humans made countires and religions which are all the problem of this world.

Gandhi was an idiot and shame on any country that adopts his name on streets including the Mahatma Gandhi Street in Santo Domingo.

I know I am saying the right thing because India and Pakistan have gone backwards ever since the British left us.
 

jojocho

New member
Jul 10, 2002
261
0
0
My dear Golo,

If there were enough of your kind of heroes to name all the streets in Santo Domingo we would be living in much different world.

By the way, what kind of macro politics are you into if you decided to post about the changing of the name of a street?

jojocho
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
"The evil that men do lives after,
The good is oft enterred with their bones"....

(Or words to that effect....) Unless there is some type of martyrdom, I suppose that it is better to allow time to decide who gets what honors...

I'd love to see a street named for Pip? Franco...one of the old tenors of Luis Alberti's day....


HB ;)
 

jojocho

New member
Jul 10, 2002
261
0
0
HB, I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I originally posted that I was completely opposed to anything being named after Pe?a, Balaguer, Bosch, etc.

By the way, I had never heard about Pipi Franco but if he was a member of the PRD I'm sure something can be arranged ;)
 
Last edited:

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
2,138
56
0
HILLBILLY

At least Eisenhower got himself a nice big expressway in Chicago. Of course, I wouldn't want to get caught in "his" traffic jams during rush hours.

Peggy Cabral "de Pena Gomez" was hardly a proletariat herself. And she's, like Pena Gomez are not Dominicans. Peggy is Argentinian and we all know where Pena Gomez came from. Peggy got her first job ever with this administration(Hipolito's) She also had never worked except being Pena's wife, yet she ran for Mayor and lost and now has the responsibility for the office that handles the poor. Her father was Manuel del Cabral, a well known poet and writer who was ambassador to Argentina, and a socialite. Her brother runs the foundation, which does art exhibits.So much for heavy work.

The Mirabals have been true to the spirit of good revolutionaries. The new Mirabals have cashed on the name and are super rich. One is running for president(no chance) and Minou has gotten her share of good government posts. She was recently elected to the Chamber of Deputies. Good wine, world travel and fine clothes have never been absent from the original Mirabals and the new ones now.

One of the richest men in DR is a "living hero" who took the first shot to kill Trujillo. Can Jojocho name him? What does this hero have in common with Trujillo?

TW
 

jojocho

New member
Jul 10, 2002
261
0
0
Antonio Imbert is the only one that is still alive Golo, and I know he's not poor, but I would hardly consider him one of the richest men in the nation . What links he had with Trujillo (or even with Balaguer if you want to talk about links) I do not know. What I do know is that, regardless of his true intentions, he and the rest of his group (Pedro Livio Cede?o, Estrella Sadhal?, Antonio de la Maza, etc.) finally got rid of one of the worst dictators Latin America has ever seen, and for that the least that we can do is be thankfull.
 
Last edited:

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
2,138
56
0
Jojocho, it's all relative

The motives for killing Trujillo were strictly personal. The group that killed Trujillo was inspired by greed and personal vengeance. The plans by this group of "traitors" who all became rich and powerful by Trujillo's benevolent hands was to take over and continue dictatorial rule. I have posted long and enough on the real background of these people here. You can check around. But none of these people were less feared than Trujillo himself.

Imbert is a copy of Trujillo except he does not have the leadership and charisma. Other than killing Trujillo he would have been a nobody. He drives around in a long Lincoln limo with an entourage larger than any of Trujillo's. He brags by showing brass license plates with full general stars and wears an unfit military uniform with more medals and condecorations than Trujillo ever wore. Traffic is stopped and detoured wherever he drives. Remember that Trujillo was nicknamed "chapita" because of all the condecorations in his uniform. Well, today's generals look like clowns. they make Trujillo look like a well-mannered English Lord. Take our Chief of the Armed Forces, an extremely overweight man,. His condecorations cover from two inches below his clavicle to the last rib in his chest. He as well as all of our generals now walk around with Nazi style batons. Imbert was never an academic military man. Trujillo's legalcy still lives.

Antonio de La Maza, another dead "hero" was the terror of the border, who owned the largest lumber mill in the nation in the town of Restauracion. Young women were hidden from his entourage when he drove thru towns, including my sister.

Our living hero was in charge for years of no other than our biggest gold mine!

TW
 

jojocho

New member
Jul 10, 2002
261
0
0
Golo, I'm in no possition to argue with you about this, specially because it seems like you lived those years, while I'm too young to even remember the end of the famous doce a?os. As I said before, they might have had their own personal agendas, but I'm pretty sure that back then people where happy just to get rid of the "Benefactor".