What the hell is going on !

Jwb

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Jan 10, 2002
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I can't believe my company is downsizing again :angry:.

Last week the HR manager called a meeting and announced that because of the faltering economy, the company will have to (for the 2nd time this year) reduce staff by 20%, my department being field support will be the most effected. I am P***d off, but I am powerless to do anything about it :tired: .

Here is the part where I need your help gang. My dominicana and I have spent the last four years traveling back and forth to the DR, religiously monitoring this board and performing endless what if analysis to us relocating to the DR . I am convinced that this is as good of a time to just do it and get it over with. I congradulate people like "Jan" :bunny: who just took the decision and kicked a**.

Anyway, since I will be recieving unemployment for some months and my mortgage holder is offering me a low rate equity loan, I am thinking of scraping up about $40K, rent out the house and just come on down. I am submitting a proposed budget for the gang to review and to constructively critisize, that would be phase one.

Several years ago a family member residing in the capital suggested that if we wanted to get a good business started in the capital, we should consider purchasing either a small bus or a truck and manage it. I am not sure how much one would cost down there, but the idea has been in mind ever since. That would be phase two.

Again, please feel free to critisize this plan and also the budget down below, I originally planed to visit the Santiago area in February but now I think I might make it permanent.

Proposed Budget: (RD)

Rent 10,000
Food 3,400
Elec 540
Water 221
Phone 1,190
propane 500
Med Ins 1,000
cable 178
Ent 3,400
Misc 10,000
--------------------------
Total 30,429 * (18% Avg) $ US 1,691
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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You mention the capital. Is that where you want to live? Makes a difference in location with respect to at least parts of your budget.

I doubt that we'll ever see 18 to 1 again. Right now you can get at least 20. But then as the peso devalues prices in supermarket and elsewhere go up, so I often think you gain more than you lose by the devaluations.
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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I can see 22:1 on the horizon very soon...

SD prices.

Rent: Not going to get too much for RD$10,000 in Santo Domingo.
Then again, all depends on what part you want to live?

Basic Cable: 400+

Electric: You guess is as good as any right now.

Food: All depends on what level you used to and at what level you wish to maintain?

US$2,000 monthly (RD$40,000) will be fine for some, but not for others.
 

Jwb

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Jan 10, 2002
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I would not be living directly in the capital, at best I would live at a nearby town like San Cristobal, although My first choice is the northern part such as santiago, Puerto plata or La vega but I am not in the position to be too picky.

In my post I stated that relatives (my fiances aunt and uncle to be exact), who lives in SD suggested that if we purchased a passenger bus or a box truck, we would be able to rent it out on a daily basis to local drivers quite easily.

As a matter of fact, does any one have any idea of how much I should expect to spend on an decent 1990's passenger bus or box truck? where in the DR will I need to look? the critical decison factor for me is wether or not I will be able to generate income with a commercial vehicle, or should I should just scrap the whole idea and start looking for another job.

Thanks to all who answer...
 
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Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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You might want to check with the School bus companies in your area and bring one down. Get a medium sized one and offer the different private schools in your eventual site, your service...
Or buy an older Toyota pickup and get together with someone to distribute stuff in the countryside.

You are welcome to look around Santiago. I'd be happy to show you where the beer is cold...

HB
BANJO.GIF
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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I disagree with Rob, if you are just you and your wife (or only one kid) you could get either a small appartment in a good part of Santo Domingo or a house in a "not so nice part". Depends on your standards. I live in a one-bedroom appt. If I was going to rent it would go for about RD$8,000.

Basic cable? 400+
Basic telephone with internet: 1,200
Electricity: I pay almost 600 with no AC. Could be anything.
Groceries: 3400 is tight. You would have to be VERY frugal. I am frugal (some say cheap) and still spend almost twice as much, go figure.
Propane: I cook once or twice a day, I spend about 600/year (I said I was frugal).
Water: 200 for a small appt.
Maintenance: RD$800 (smallest appt. in the building)
Insurance: if you take the basic one it could be RD$1000/month or less.
Transport? I spend about 1500 of my own money in gas (the company pays for work-related trips)
Entertainement? What do you like to do? For 3400 forget about trips abroad. Or eating out in fancy places.

It all boils down to: how frugal can you be?
 

lhtown

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Jan 8, 2002
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Jwb said:
Proposed Budget: (RD)

Rent 10,000
Food 3,400
Elec 540
Water 221
Phone 1,190
propane 500
Med Ins 1,000
cable 178
Ent 3,400
Misc 10,000
--------------------------
Total 30,429 * (18% Avg) $ US 1,691

My general opinion for a couple in Santo Domingo(Your actual costs could vary greatly):
Rent 10,000-20,000
Food 5,000-7,000
Elec 2,000-4,000
Water 200
Phone/ dial-up net 1,000-3,000
propane(cooking only) 150-300
Med ins no idea
cable don't know
Entertainment depends on you
Misc anybody's guess yours might be close depending on what you include in that category
transportation varies greatly
 

Jwb

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Jan 10, 2002
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Phase two

Thanks everyone for editing the proposed budget.

I know 10, 000 pesos for rent isn't much, but accoding to the clasificado section in the listin diario there are a few apartments out there for that price. I cant vouch for the neighborhoods though, because I've always stayed at my fiances familys home in Villa Faro .

Here are a few examples from today's listing.


http://www.listindiario.com

MIRADOR NORTE 2habs., 2b., pta.. full, gas, 1 parq., tech. $11,300 Mialgros Cabrera c/519-** Remax Metropolitana 541-*** (**-106).

PIANTINI, Apto., 3 habs., 2 ba?os, todo en caoba, de 1ra. RD$10,000. Mantenimiento incluido. Albert S.P & Asoc. 482-***4/3171/ 707-***/8**-8788.


Please comment and offer opinions on the second part of the plan? is it a feasible idea to purchase a bus/ truck and rent it out to a local driver on a daily basis.

If it is feasible should I buy one in the DR , or bring it in from the states. I;ve read some horror stories from other posters about bring in vehicles from over seas.
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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I can't help you with the business side of this.

About importing a bus, busses are "vehicles of mass transportation", thus not taxed as regular vehicles. The taxes are lower but expect the complimentary red tape.
 

ccarabella

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Feb 5, 2002
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Aren't you supposed to be looking for a job while

you are receiving unemployment benefits?
I'm sure you will have to report to the office once in a while or send in some type of proof that you are actually "in search".
 

sanchegp

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Nov 18, 2002
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I recently spent a few months living in the DR as wanted to experience what it would feel like to live there temporarily before moving permanently. My objective was to recreate my spending habits in NY while living in the DR. The idea was to replicate the activities and living habits in the Dominican Republic with a particular emphasis on the finances. In other words, I wanted to find out how much I would need, on a monthly basis, in order to live comfortably over there. My conclusion was that I needed at least 30K (Pesos/Month) excluding rent and any car payments as I own my house and a car. I was living in a good neighborhood in Santigo, have a wife and a kid, traveled at least once a week to near-by towns/cities and went to a restaurant at least once a week...also, did some hang-out with friends (not a lot though)...and paid for all basic services as you have on your expense sheet.
 

Eddy

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Jan 1, 2002
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Sosua:
Rent: 10,000.00 to 15,000.00 (Month) 2/3 Br. Decent
If house add 8,000.00/month "min" security/gardener
Electricity: 1,500.00 to 3,000.00 month
Telephone: 1,200.00 to 1,500.00 month
Water: 200.00 month
Food: Depending on size of family and preferences - 5,000.00/m
Car,gas,insurance, repairs: Oh my god!!!
Eating out/afternoon cocktails/entertaining etc: 5,000.00 month
Propane: 500.00 per tank

Overall, double your budget and you will be reasonably safe.
 

Golo100

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Jan 5, 2002
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Here is mine.

First of pal, forget about San Cristobal, the murder capital of the south. You would need a bullet proof vest to live there. Have you driven thru that crazy town lately! It would be a miracle if you do not crash into a motoconcho daily. Get into an accident with one is equal to a sure machete fight. Besides, are you willing to pay $100 pesos a day for tolls to get into the main highway to Santo Domingo?

The transportation business is very tricky, even for Dominicans. Are you ready to face the transportation unions with bats, iron bars and guns to get into a route? There are towns where a local little mafia would not let anyone get into this business, save for giving up your life. The towns in the south are impossible to penetrate without a fight.

You need to include the cost of highway police bribes to stay in business. Repairs will be awsome with the state of our highways and town roads.

The budgets presented here sound more like living in Santo Domingo and Santiago. The rest of our towns, with the exception of resort areas are pretty much within these budgets. I would go for the highest mentioned here. And still, you would live a very frugal life. You will not be frequenting Piantini restaurants, thats for sure.

Your best bet is that the dollar keeps going up.

TW
 

ShoortyLov

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Nov 15, 2002
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AM I MISSING SOMTHING HERE?

I'm not sure what part am I missing here....but are we talking about relocating, or looking to retire? It could be that i'm confused, but It seems to me that everyone in my family who still lives in the DR are able to decently live under a much more lower budget then what you guys are outlining above. For example...while we lived in DR, even though it has been at least 10 yrs....my dad made DOP$10,000/ monthly salary working for one of the mayor refineria de petrolio en San Cristobal ( I think)....and we lived a little above "average" before we even moved here to the US. I do understand that you won't be living as comfortable as you would here with a tighter/smaller budget, but isn't that the whole purpose or relocating....to adapt to a different environment and way of living, than this fast-paced, stressfull "America"?

I will be relocating to Santo Domingo by mid of next year, and I have actually been planning this out for a few years now....and in order for me to live as decent as I live here, but without the stressfull fast paced routine (my only reason for relocating)....I'll will be OK with a least a DOP$12,000 - $20,000.00 / monthly salary. This conclusion, is not including transportation, and I would actually have a reduced rent, since I'll be renting from my parents until I reach my goal of owning a Beauty Spa...and grow from there...

When I state to live as "decent" as I live here...take in to consideration that I work as a customer service rep for a chemical company and only make US$35,000.00 annual salary, my ex-husband made US$33,000.00, which without any children, a combined annual salary of US$68,000.00, is pretty good money ...That enabled us to live a bit above "average".

Now as a single mother still making US$35,000.00 is not enough to live above average...but I'm still able to live "decently", as I define that word.

Bottom line...I believe that the Dominican Republic is a very good choice when choosing where to relocate, we just need to know how to take advantage of all the positive things our country has to offer........with a bit of moderation.

- QUESTION - What is you guy's definition of living "decently"? (Is it to be able to spend $1000 DOP a day in miscellanous stuff...which no "avearage living" person is able to do all the time??)

:confused: :squareeye :ermm: :nervous:
 
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Golo100

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Jan 5, 2002
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Shortylov

The costs that you have seen posted here are for real. In fact, what I consider living decently these figures posted are very low. While you can live "decently" in a small town or suburb with smaller budgets, the fact is that you will be deprived of luxury activities.

Ambition in life is what qualifies how decent you live. Are you willing to part with taking weekends off to a resort at least every holiday? Do you aspire driving a late model vehicle with some prestige, lets say upwards of a Toyota Camry or Corolla? You see modest vehicles cost more than a luxury vehicle in the U.S. A Camry fully equipped can hit $800,000 pesos or more. You could buy an apartment for that much money. If you aspire to live in an upper middle class neighborhood, which would be the closest thing to living decently without all the fuss of motoconchos waking you up at 5am, trucks selling platanos and pineapples with a loudspeaker allday long, vendors whisling and singing their ware, mormon missionaries knocking on your door at dinner time, transformers blowing up every week, kids playing basketball in the streets and blowing firecrackers, etc. you will need an ample budget. This is not the DR of 10 or 20 years ago.

If you are willing to put up with stuff like that, drive a 10 year old subcompact car in pot holes, watch TV and join the crowd at colmadones for fun and never eat out, then you are made for DR.

Listen, if you go lets say to the movies at Diamond Mall, a nice comfortable upper class enviroment with your family of 4, you could easily spend your entire weekly salary in one night. Admission is $100, coke $25-50,candy bar $20, popcorn $20-75, plain hot dog(no trimmings)$30. Dinner at any location $75 low for combos. This is just basic entertainment!! But salaries here are not even 1/3 of salaries in the U.S.

TW
 

ShoortyLov

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Nov 15, 2002
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You see almost getting to the point...which I wanted to bring up...

That's kind of what I'm asking....what is "decently".

I am aware that DR is not what it was 10 yrs ago, but when I'm stating that the relatives that still live down there...live "decently"...I do mean...living in a not such high budget neighborhood.

My family lives in "Mi Hogar", "Respardo de Alma Rosa", "Los Rosales", ect.... Barrios that are not luxury, but are "decent"/avarage living places..Where my family have "decent" and comfortable houses with all it's commodities.....going back to what I wrote before....when I say "relocating" ....is moving and adapting to a different environment or way of living....

What would DR be without having that "platanero" guy going through every morning? (in "los rosales" or nice parts of "almarosa")

My budget was based on that...I'll be living in the suburbs...in an "avarage" living barrio like Almarosa or Los Rosales.

Cars....That's one thing that does disappoint me of DR....what dominican's call "luxury" eg...Camary....like u stated above...they go for what an apartment in the zona oriental will cost you. That's just outrageous...Therefore...I will not be buying my car in DR...I do own a '97 Maxima...which I will not be able to bring with me...after our president established that "5 yr old" rule, but I do plan on purchasing a car here and bringing it with me...
 

rafael

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Jan 2, 2002
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I came close to renting a 3 bedroom apartment on the 5th floor of a decent building in Gazcue for $9000 per month.

I too was downsized and have been sort of living in Santo Domingo ever since. I am out near the zona franca san isidro.

2 bedroom, 2 bath, kitchen, dining/living room, balcony, access to the roof, for chilling or parties;-)

Lights and water are relatively reliable as we are near the free zone. the longest the lights have gone out was 4 hours. 15 minutes is more normal

Brand new apartment, certainly not luxury, Colmado downstairs, rooster outside waking me up every morning, walking distance to my novia's son's collegio. . . . . . .$4,000 per month.

I finally got Internet Flash, and can work from down there for now. I am consulting till end of january and then move to Florida, for my new gig.

$10,000 to $12,000 can get ya a decent place in Gazcue. If you want to live in Naco, or Bella Viste, good luck.

I went there to cut my expenses and spend time with my novia. It has been well worth it.
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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ShoortyLov said:
but I do plan on purchasing a car here and bringing it with me...

I would think again...

Unless your a customs and shipping expert or your dad or brother is the boss of customs, I wouldn't bother. I haven't heard one good story about privately importing a car here, but I have heard many horror stories. In virtually every case it would have been cheaper to purchase the car here. That's setting aside the pain these people went through trying to actually get their vehicles! And yes, we are talking Gringos and Dominicans.
 

sanchegp

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Nov 18, 2002
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I would agree with Golo in terms of the cost of living. Like you, I have always dreamed of going back to the DR and live there permanently. I too, would not accept any other truth than the one I wanted to believe...which was that I could easily live in the DR with a 15-20K budget. I too thought that I would not need as much luxury as it seemed deemed living in the US. In fact, I would not even speak to people that would argue against my financial projections for living in the DR. I am one of the most optimistic persons you can find...and one that thinks that can adapt to any environment (which I still think I do). However, the hard reality that I found when I spent a few months there (summer) was that things have changed, at least in terms of living standards and the cost of living. While 10 years ago having a car automatically qualified you as an upper-middle class, that is not longer the case. Not only do people want to have a car...they want to have a nice car...that has a price to be paid. Even the activities that Dominicans love to get involved in and that seemed cheap in the past are no longer cheap. For example, one of my favorite activities is to go to a river in Jarabacoa, roast a few chickens, buy a bottle of rum and bring a few of my family members to share the moment....that is not cheap any more. You can easily spend 1,000 in that activity alone, assuming that the family members are moderate drinkers. If you were to replicate these activities in a more sophisticated setting, like a beach...then you can multiply your costs by at least 2.

I do think, however, that the country still offers a great forum for living...my dreams are still as intact as they were when I came to this nation 17 years ago...the only thing that has changed is the maturity length of the dream...that means that I will probably not be ready for a few more years.

In the end though, if you can get away with thinking that money should not determine the outcome of your decisions, then you have mastered a life's philosophy that I have been struggling against all of my life. I have always preached that money is irrelevant in the realm of things?but yet I continue to work to get to a financial position for when I am ready to make that decision (of going to the DR). For some weird reason, the US capitalist concept reveals itself above and beyond economics...sometimes marginally leaping into the sublime....
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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I hope Golo will correct me on this but I "think" that in the past , oh, say, eight years, the peso has gone from 13.50 to 1 to 21.60 (on transfers, today) to 1. That is about 60% less purchasing power in too few years. Just a few months ago, it was 16-1...that is over 30% is months. Oh yes, we have a great government.

HB