SECUESTROS: kidnapping is a new growth industry?

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arturo

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Mar 14, 2002
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The growing incidence of kidnappings is deplorable, but not surprising. There is no justification for this sort of activity in civilized societies.

I see the root cause as a simple case of class struggle. As the widely practiced official corruption shows, the Dominican ruling class (political, judicial, law enforcement, and entrepreneurial) has little or no regard or sense of responsibility for the less fortunate who make up the majority in this country.

There is a cynical sense of entitlement, a seething contempt for the poor, and a prevailing attitude of "us and them" that is wholly inappropriate, especially in this very small country. I think part of it is a misguided attempt to avoid feelings of guilt.

Nonetheless, there is a price to pay for denying any hope to so many. Some who thought that grinding poverty has nothing to do with their lives feel otherwise after paying out large ransoms. Foreigners may wonder why the police won't take action and get involved. Some say they are involved, on the receiving end.
 
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leja

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Oct 16, 2002
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arturo, I'm a little confused. I agree that the class division in the DR is probably contributing to social unrest and discontentment in general, but are you saying that poor people are the ones who are actually doing the kidnapping? Could you explain your thoughts a little bit further?

DR1ers: What are everybody?s interpretations of the recent kidnappings in the DR? A policemen was quoted in today?s List?n Diario as saying:
no existe una modalidad del secuestro en Rep?blica Dominicana a pesar de que algunas personas han comenzado a hablar de la supuesta colombianizaci?n dominicana.
http://www.listin.com.do/cuerpos/republica/rep4.htm
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I?m unfamiliar with past kidnapping for ransom cases in the DR ? have there been many prior to Capell?n, Najri & Dum?? Do you see these cases as unfortunate exceptions or part of something much bigger? Like in Colombia, Mexico, and Brazil, where such kidnappings have become frequent, the families of the kidnapped Dominicans have reportedly chosen to not involve the police in their ransom negotiations:
El criminalista Marino Vinicio Castillo afirm? que las familias prefieren no enterar a las autoridades porque, seg?n su reflexi?n, ??ellas entienten que el crimen organizado ha logrado permear los cuerpos policiales de muchas maneras??, a partir de la participaci?n de agentes en varios hechos.
http://www.ultimahora.com.do/deldia/deldia1.htm
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What?s going on here?

Thanks in advance for your input.

~Leja
 
A

arturo

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Mar 14, 2002
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I will try to break it down:

You asked if I think poor people might be kidnapping. I am not a witness but I rather doubt the oligarchy is kidnapping itself. Another point - one person's perception of poverty is another's perception of a comfortable middle class existence, perspectives differ.

That brings us to the police. In this country, they are not among the most highly compensated, at least not in terms of official salaries. Some of the victims' families don't appear to trust the police. Do I need to explain why?

Finally, you asked how pervasive kidnapping is. My opinion is that it is very safe to say that it is much more pervasive than what is reported in newspapers. I sense some uneasiness or fear in some of your questions. I hope I can reassure you by pointing out that the Dominican oligarchy and the well known families that flaunt their control over the economy in the newspaper social pages are much more liable to this sort of attention than other people of means who either don't make an issue of it and/or make meaningful contributions to their communities.

Does that help?
 
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socuban

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Nov 24, 2002
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Pedro Martinez' father

supposedly was kidnapped recently according to a source in MLB. Any info/confirmaion from DR?
 
M

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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Re: Pedro Martinez' father

socuban said:
supposedly was kidnapped recently according to a source in MLB. Any info/confirmaion from DR?
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I also heard the rumor on the internet.
 
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leja

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Oct 16, 2002
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Pedro's father...

From what I?ve read in newspapers, it seems that there was an alleged plot to kidnap Pedro Martinez? father but that the police intervened before it happened. Of course a kidnapping may have happened after the articles were published, the articles? info could be incorrect, and if there was actually a kidnapping, the press could be being fed inaccurate info on purpose, etc. Who knows. But at any rate, this is the "official" info that I?ve come across?

According to msnbc.com today:
SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic, Dec. 9 ? Dominican Republic police arrested two men who allegedly were planning to kidnap the father of Boston Red Sox star pitcher Pedro Martinez in order to demand a ransom for his rescue? A source close to the Martinez family told AP that the plot was discovered Thursday and the police were immediately told. The police succeeded in apprehending immediately the suspected masterminds of the plan. Their names were not revealed.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/845202.asp
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And from ?ltima Hora today:
Ning?n secuestro del padre de Pedro Mart?nez
Una fuente policial confirm? al cierre de esta edici?n que se investiga a dos personas, las cuales hablaban de la idea de secuestrar al padre de las estrellas de b?isbol, Pedro y Ram?n Mart?nez. La fuente desminti? que se haya producido un intento de secuestro contra Don Pedro Jaime, padre de los peloteros, como circul? insistentemente esta ma?ana.
http://www.ultimahora.com.do/deldia/deldia1.htm
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Arturo, thanks for the clarification. I see what you?re getting at.

~Leja
 
C

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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I think this new trend may be more complex than 'class struggle' but I certainly share the opinion that if rich people were not to flaunt their riches so extravagantly they may be less likely to be targeted.


I know this is not unique to the DR, having been to several other countries where this is the case, but it never ceases to amaze me that people can feel comfortable with themselves living in such luxury side by side with people who earn less in a month than they spend on a round of drinks at Bar Kiev!

Is it true or is it an urban myth that there are more 'luxury cars' in the DR per capita than anywhere else in Latin America?

Having said that, in countries where kidnapping is rife you do not need to be mega wealthy to be a kidnap victim - in places like Guatemala they'll kidnap a relatively poor person for a couple of hundreds of dollars.
 
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Tony C

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Jan 1, 2002
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www.sfmreport.com
I am sick and tired of people making excuses for other people's criminal behavior!
A person of wealth has all the rights to flaunt if they want to. Cry if you want to but the class distinctions exist for a reason! If the poor don't like it...TOO BAD. It still doesn't give them the right to rob, steal or Kidnapp.
Now this doesn't remove the responsiblilty from the wealthy from playing by the rules and not abusing their power.
 
A

arturo

Bronze
Mar 14, 2002
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Tony,

I made no excuses. In fact, I clearly stated at the outset that there is no justification for this sort of criminal behavior.

I believe that flaunting one's wealth is an abuse of power as well as an inappropriate way to offset a lack of self esteem. I don't object to enjoying good fortune or success, but wealth comes with responsibility.

I pity people who aren't evolved enough to feel empathy for the filth and misery that surrounds them. I also pity people who are desparate or hateful to the point of grabbing someone and threatening their life for money.
 
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JOHNNY HONDA

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Sep 25, 2002
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Tony C said:
I am sick and tired of people making excuses for other people's criminal behavior!
A person of wealth has all the rights to flaunt if they want to. Cry if you want to but the class distinctions exist for a reason! If the poor don't like it...TOO BAD. It still doesn't give them the right to rob, steal or Kidnapp.
Now this doesn't remove the responsiblilty from the wealthy from playing by the rules and not abusing their power.
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100% True Tony C.
However even if $$$$$$=power no one has the right to treat others as sub human or lack of respect.Those who flaunt their wealth in areas where people have a hard time eating every day or feeding their chidren are pretty stupid.I personally would not walk through Cappotillo wearing a Rolex and trying to buy a pequena with a wad of 2000 peso bills.:bandit:
 
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Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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If you've got it don't flaunt it

Hmmm... there are ways of enjoying your wealth without flaunting it in the way which people with more money than brains do here and all over the world.

Not to speak of putting something back into society - not in a showy token way either. I agree with arturo: if you have the good fortune to have money you have certain moral responsibilities too. So many of the rich here are 'religious' from the waist up and with bumper stickers to prove it.

First of all, guys, remember that when you are rich in a country like this your lifestyle depends on being able to pay your employees a pittance, hence freeing up money for those luxury cars and private schools that only succeed in turning out the real 'salvages' of this country.

I know this thread is about kidnapping, and I am the last person to condone this or any sort of violence. As a parent myself I am able to empathise with the anguish of the rich family members at having their son kidnapped as much as I can with a poor family who suffer the daily problems of ensuring that they can feed their children and keep them healthy. But in a country where no one plays by the rules, what do you expect from the poor and the desperate? What example do they get from the politicians, the business people???

The one and only rule that is followed - 'grab what you can while you can' applies to all of the above, whether you are Pepe Goico and his ilk or some small time 'delincuente' who opts for kidnapping as a way of making a quick buck.
 
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Golo100

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Jan 5, 2002
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Pedro Martinez kidnapping

From what I have heard, the planners of the Pedro Martinez' father kidnapping have been arrested. It never materialized.

TW
 
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mondongo

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
1,533
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Tony C said:
I am sick and tired of people making excuses for other people's criminal behavior!
A person of wealth has all the rights to flaunt if they want to. Cry if you want to but the class distinctions exist for a reason! If the poor don't like it...TOO BAD. It still doesn't give them the right to rob, steal or Kidnapp.
Now this doesn't remove the responsiblilty from the wealthy from playing by the rules and not abusing their power.
Click to expand...

TonyC, I agree with you in principle. In the DR, a significant percentage of the wealthy attainned their wealth unethically and/or illegally....akin to what is happening now. If I lived in the DR and my food bill went through the roof because of the thievery of the ruling class....you bet your fanny I would seriously consider the Old World...."An Eye for an Eye"...
 
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Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
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Last I heard

As it is in typical Dominican style, the planners of the proposed Pedro Martinez's father kidnapping have been released from jail by the district attorney in the area.

TW
 
D

darling

New member
Sep 3, 2002
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Kidnapping is just one sympton of the social malaise which seems to affect most of South, Central American and the Carribean (you can probably throw in the rest of the third world as well) prostitution is another. You don?t get the same impetus for this in either in the US or Europe because of the spread of wealth.
While I agree there is a disproportionate difference between rich and poor here, lets not be to complacent ( seemingly implied by comments in the thread) about things back home in the US or Europe. Given half a chance we have a lot of "tea leaves" back home eg Enron, Worldcom etc I saw a statistic that US CEOs average earnings have on average risen from 50 to 200 times that of the average worker over 20 yrs. Many of which, not most, have the same disregard to the less well off as the rich here, in particular their own employees.
What in the end is the right balance? is it alright to have just enough people living "reasonably" comfortably not to have to feel guilty about the homeless that exist in the US and Europe who are no better off than some of those living in Capotillo?
Don?t get me wrong, I?m not advocating Communism. But we should look at this with a bit more humility and less we are "holier than thou" attitude.
Why don?t we start but not lending these guys money that is not only being spent on the wrong things, but a lot going into the wrong pockets as well. We are often just fuelling the corruption and greed which exacerbates class/wealth divisions that sporn Kidnapping, prostitution, mugging, stealing electricity (perhaps these guys are half honest and just need the money to pay their electric bill)
 
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leonardo1267

Guest
Everybody knows that the kidnappings are done with Police and Military knowledge, they are the sponsors, that is why the victims do not want the authorities involved.

that is the situation that the PRD crooks are bringing to this country.
 
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