Mislead Dominican Chavistas

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leonardo1267

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Is pathetic like the Dominican media spin the Venezuela situation in favor of Chavez goverment, the dominican media refer to the venezuela oposition like "golpistas" and try to diminish their cause.

read this article from "el Nacional" from today:

(Con lo radical que se han mostrado sus opositores no cabe la menor duda de que la eliminaci?n f?sica es una alternativa para poner fin al presidente venezolano Hugo Ch?vez. Eso de que francotiradores est?n dispuestos a eliminarlo si no renuncia de la Presidencia no es un disparate del vicepresidente Jos? Vicente Rangel. Venezuela lleva hoy 13 d?as de huelga auspiciada por gremios empresariales y entelequias pol?ticas derrotadas por Ch?vez en unas elecciones libres y democr?ticas)

they never mention the pressure that Chavez and his henchmen is putting against the media and most of the venezuela society, including the Church, they also forget to mention that Chavez try to bring the previous government down and he is just getting what he was try to give to somebody else before.

Chavez is just another apprentice of ditactor, and is time the Dominican Media know that!!!
 

earosemena

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I'm certainly not an expert in Dominican politics, but it seems to me that the present administration is somewhat anti-american. This is a pretty dangerous position considering the alternative. I'm also under the impression that the press usually voices the government?s stand, hence commentaries of this nature. One does not need to be an erudite to know the damage that Chavez has done to Venezuela.
 

Pib

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Ch?vez is an idiot and bad news for Venezuela. But he is a democratically elected president. He should not be ousted using the same strategy that was criticized in him. For the sake of his nation I hope that he accepts the referendum (the only constitutional option to oust him at this moment). A coup will in turn become a bloodbath and the wrong message for the rest of Latin America.

There is not anti-American sentiment in those who from the Dominican Rep. criticize the Venezuelan opposition (who isn't without fault). There may be, however, a pro-PRD slant. Despite the presence of Carlos Andr?s P?rez as a part-time resident here and the fact that the late Pe?a G?mez was his friend, there's no doubt that Hip?lito seems to get along with Ch?vez and we have an interest in not disrupting the relationship with Venezuela, no matter who is in power there.

The hypocrisy of the Bush Administration in not condemning the coup months ago resonated in the world as "democracy is good for all, as long as we like those in power". There has been accusations of US involvement or support to the "golpistas" (yes, it was a coup), the US has denied it, but being that Ronald Reagan is still alive the memories of the days of intervention in Latin America is not forgotten. If the US wasn't involved, they still failed in condemning the coup. That's what the press in ALL Latin America resented.

I believe in democracy, I believe in elections, and I believe that the way in and out of power must rely on the constitution. I want Ch?vez out, possibly as much as the majority of the Venezuelans. There's nothing good I can say about Ch?vez except that he was elected democratically and should be ousted using another constitutional tool, if not elections.

And if Ch?vez had two cents of brain he would have resigned.

YMMV

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/columnists/andres_oppenheimer/4720108.htm
 
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Ken

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Can't help but wonder if Hippo's support for Chavez is at least in part fear that the same thing, if not stopped in Venezuela, could soon happen to him in the DR.
 

earosemena

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And then, there is the issue of the oil. Isn't Venezuela the number one source of oil to the DR? I love, respect and honor the democratic process. Sometimes I wonder, though, if American intervention wouldn't be an advantage to some countries, (Haiti, comes to mind.) Does Puerto Rico ?work? as a US satellite?
 

AZB

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I just don't get it. What is democratically supported government? Media chooses a person for you Ex: USA. They show you all the good qualities of him and the political figure tells you what you all want to hear. The large corporations support their campaign (with money). People lobby for them. The media carries the candidate. The talk show people lead you in the direction where they want your opinion to shift. In the end, you people have no choice but to choose the candidate who is the best liar and who is chosen by the media and the lobbyist / corporations etc. Then you brain washed dummies vote and choose your candidate.
Now comes the pay back time. The president has to do what he is told by the lobbyist and the people who have funded his campaign. If he goes against them (ex: USA) the media already has a scandal on him. They can destroy his career and kick him out before he has any chance to clear himself. Look what happened to Clinton and look how he obeyed and gotten himself out. Now George bush has been given the order to go to war and take out sadam. Is it for the best of the interest for USA? Who knows but he has to do it and the media is doing whatever to promote the war. You can send all the UN inspectors you want, in the end, war is imminent. North Korea has a nuclear facility and they are willing to build arms, but is USA preparing to attack them? No, Korea is no threat to Israel I mean to the oil reserve... yeah, thats it. Yes we cry about saving the whales and the dolphins but who cares about poor Arabs? Let them die.
So you see, it?s not the president who calls the shots it who got him elected. He is only the front man to take the blame.
Before George Bush was the laughing stock of all the media and now after 9/11 he has proven to be a good boy and serves his superiors right; now he is the strongest and the most powerful president in the current history. This is the same guy who can't spell or give comprehensible speeches.
So why blame Chavez and others guy when the squeeze comes from somewhere else? President of Pakistan has no choice but to support Americans, equally true for the King of Jordan and Egypt and Saudis. If they refuse to take part in this massacre, they too will be labeled terrorists and allies of bin laden, same holds true if you question 9/11 event you are considered anti-American. You question Israeli influence on American foreign policies, you are anti-semite.
You see the pattern? Now you know who is pulling the strings; these tactics are old.
I don't blame the presidents but the root cause. The root cause has to be isolated and attacked not the messenger who delivers the message.
Let?s not make this an Arab / Israeli issue and hijack this thread. These were only examples of how the presidents have to act when they are told by the people who call the shots.
 
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leonardo1267

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AZB let's not make this thread an Arab/Israeli one and by the way, what do you mean when you say "poor arabs"? , Arabs have not My symphathy at all and we all know why. this thread is about Chavez and the Dominican media so please do not go outside the topic.
 
anti american??

earosemena said:
I'm certainly not an expert in Dominican politics, but it seems to me that the present administration is somewhat <b>anti-american.</b> This is a pretty dangerous position considering the alternative. I'm also under the impression that the press usually voices the government?s stand, hence commentaries of this nature. One does not need to be an erudite to know the damage that Chavez has done to Venezuela.
<br> So why the US troops to help secure the border with Haiti, certainly doesnt appear to be an anti american move.
 
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leonardo1267

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They have not choice, but I bet you Hippo doesnot like the Idea.
 

Pib

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[B]AZB[/B] said:
What is democratically supported government?
Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe you refer to democratically-elected (isn't that an oxymoron?).


To answer Ken's question, Hipo could have Venezuela and a possible coup/resignation/referendum in the back of his mind, if he had a mind, that is. Chances are he doesn't. Yes, oil is what I was referring to when I talked about the Dominican interest in not harming the relations with Venezuela. We depend too much on Venezuela, their credit and special price. An oil crisis is the last thing we need right now.
 

MommC

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That's right Pib! An oil crisis in the DR at this moment would be the straw that breaks the camel's back.........I hate to think of the outcome......Brrrrrrrr(as she shudders NOT from the cold!!)
 

Ken

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Pib said:
An oil crisis is the last thing we need right now.

Agreed, Pib, but I think one is in the making. According to news reports, 90% of Venezuela's 40,000 oil workers are participating in the strike. Shipments to the US, Venezuela's biggest customer, have already fallen from 3 million barrels a day to 550,000. And tensions in Venezuela show no sign of weakening. If anything, the oppostion seems to be gaining strength.

Some of this must be getting through the fog surrounding Hippo.
 

AZB

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Is it true that DR has 6 months of oil supply? Does this mean our gasoline prices won't hike for sometime? can we get crude oil from some place else for time being?
By the way, Gasoline prices did go up from RD$ 36 and change to RD$ 39 and change for the regular unleaded.
 

Ken

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Venezuelan troops seize tanker

Chavez moves to break strike

Monday, December 16, 2002 Posted: 2:58 AM EST (0758 GMT)
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CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- Soldiers carrying rifles boarded a striking oil tanker and brought in a new crew Sunday in President Hugo Chavez's latest effort to quash a two-week-old national strike aimed at ousting him.

Chavez opponents on yachts, motorboats, canoes and even kayaks surrounded the Pilin Leon to protest the action.

The tanker, carrying 9.6 million gallons of gasoline, has been idle for almost two weeks on western Lake Maracaibo -- and has become an emblem of the strike that has paralyzed the oil industry and put pressure on Chavez to either resign or call early elections.

"We are not afraid! They won't humiliate us!" screamed Jose Luis Alcala, a lawyer for the crew members. "Resign!" he ordered Chavez.

The deployment Sunday demonstrated that Chavez was determined to break the strike, which has limited supplies of gasoline, food and cash and further polarized this poor South American country.

"Pressure from a group of managers, a group of coup-plotters, won't push me out," he said in his weekly television program Sunday. "I'm here at the will of the great majority of Venezuelans."

He also issued a veiled warning to the United States -- which is pressuring for early elections -- with a reference to Washington's embarrassing response to an April coup that briefly toppled Chavez. The United States initially blamed Chavez for his own downfall and belatedly condemned the coup.

Chavez held up a small blue copy of Venezuela's constitution, which doesn't allow early elections until midway through a president's term -- in his case, August 2003.

"I recommend that governments of the world ... read this constitution. We've published it in several languages -- English, German, French, even Russian," he said. "We can send it to whoever wants it by e-mail ... so that those who came out looking bad in the past don't come out looking bad again."

The president's supporters took to the streets Sunday in a caravan of hundreds of cars. Drivers honked horns and passengers leaned out their windows waving knockoffs of the former army paratrooper's signature red beret.

"Long live Chavez! Nobody topples Chavez!" cried Alisis Fernandez, 37, pumping her fist as she drove her car down a Caracas avenue.

After the caravan, Chavez supporters and government opponents clashed briefly, but police swiftly dispersed them with tear gas. There were no reports of injuries.

Chavez has fought the strike by firing four dissident executives at the state oil monopoly and commandeering gasoline distribution trucks. Sunday was the second time the government tried to seize the Pilin Leon.

Last week, troops arrested the captain and replaced him, but a judge ordered the captain released Friday saying he hadn't committed any crime, and the crew refused to work under a new government-imposed skipper.

The armed soldiers, wearing camouflage, boarded the boat Sunday morning along with a new crew that Alcala said was foreign. Alcala said the original crew had been ordered to leave the ship.

It was unclear whether the government had qualified personnel to replace the crew on the Pilin Leon or other striking ships -- or to replace the thousands of other strikers at the oil monopoly Petroleos de Venezuela SA, which include most managers.

Opposition leaders vowed to keep up the strike until Chavez either resigns or accepts early elections -- and called on citizens to intensify the protests.

Starting Monday, Venezuelans should stay indoors from 6 a.m. until 1 p.m., announced Agustin Berrios, spokesman for the Democratic Coordinator, an umbrella group for opposition parties.

Chavez accuses foes of inciting a coup. Negotiations sponsored by the Organization of American States have produced no results.

Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel blamed the news media and Venezuela's upper classes for the country's instability -- but he acknowledged that Chavez's aggressive style may have contributed to tensions.

"Yes, that's possible. Presidents are human beings," Rangel told Brazil's O Globo newspaper. "I wouldn't have reacted like him. But this is the way he responds."

Chavez's efforts to crack down on the strike have fueled opposition ire. On Saturday, at least 1 million Venezuelans turned out for an anti-Chavez rally in the capital city of Caracas -- the opposition's biggest show of strength since the strike began December 2.

But the president didn't even mention the protest as he began his weekly television address.

"Some say this is a plan to get Chavez to go," he said. "Well, Chavez isn't going."
 

jose?to

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I hope Ch?vez remains in power, but I doubt it. Arbens, Bosch, Lubumba, Allende, Noriega, Arafat, Hussein...AZB, do you CI A trend?

Jose?to
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I agree with Pib's position on democratically elected governments (and will leave the PRD to answer the question of whether they work well with uneducated, ignorant populations). I also agree that Bush's position of tacitly (and probably more than tacitly) supporting the golpistas in Venezuela was "hipo-critical" and harmed US credibility in the region (Jimmy Carter, where are you when we need you.)

That said, if Hipolito is tied to drug trafficing or money laundering, would he survive for five minutes in the face of US pressure??? Chavez has a very real and passionate (albeit sophomoric) ideology and a sizable number of real and passionate followers. They follow him for more than just hand-outs or promises of government jobs. The uneducated masses in the barrios really think he will change the country for the better. He also has strong support from the key military installation in Venezuela, and he is personally integrated into the command structure. Could any of this be said about Hipolito???
 
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Pib

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For all that can be said about Chavez one thing is true: although he cannot effectively govern with 70% against him, 30% support is mighty strong (oxymoron of the day) if/when he ends in the opposition. And as Porfi said, that 30% is passionate in their support.
 

jose?to

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According to the current issue of Progressive magazine, the pro-Ch?vez marches are three times as large as the anti-Ch?vez, but the U.S. mainstream media outlets would never report it.

If and when Ch?vez falls (I hope he doesn't), would the Bushies go after Lula next? He is a socialist, and was elected by the people, which are two ingredients that do not play well with the boy emperor.

-Jose?to
Don't believe the hype!
 

AZB

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wait, are you saying the mainstream US media is biased? how could that be??????? Hahahahaha
 
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