Who's dominican?

Were the laws in the DR written to parallel U.S. laws?

It is my understanding that children born in the United States to illegal immigrants are automatically U.S. citizens. This is being told to me by people involved with hispanic illegal immigrants in the U.S.

Please correct me if I have been given incorrect information.

to my understanding, law in the DR are not writen in parallel to those of the U.S. As for granting nationality to children of illegal haitians, no way!!! Do that and you've just opened up for the flood gates to everyone dying to get out of Haiti.

Anybody born in the United States is automatically a US Citizen. In years gone by, illegal immigrants were able to gain permanent residency based on that birth. As far as I know, that has not changed - except that the child must now reach 21 years of age before he/she can apply for residency for the parents, brothers, sisters, etc. It seems to delay a lot of things, plus makes it less desirable to cross the border to give birth.
I have noticed that many Koreans or Chinese still try to come to the US to give birth because they don't have to serve in the military of that country if they are US Citizens.
Should the DR government give citizenship to the children of illegal Hatians? What do the laws say? Maybe we should move this to the legal forum...
mk

citizenship is not an a right but a privillege

My parents and brohers became U S citizens but I still maintain my Dominican citizenship. If anybody becomes an citizen of any country he is givinging up his birthright. and it not allowed to certain electoral offfices, to me that is a second class citiizenship. I raher be a first class citizen of a small country than a second class citizen of a great power. In case of an illigal entery the child is not entitle to any of the benefit that a citizen is aloud. I have been in the US since l956 I don't see any difference, except for the right to vote, which most citizen here neglect or avoid doing. I find myself defending my right to choose not to be a citizen that is democracy., but many citizens feel threaten by my atitude. that is my right. Unless you ge involved with a criminals elements/or commit a major crime you would get deported. Legal or illigal residents are at equal footing., where do you all think you getting all the new criminal gangs in DR? New York ,Massachusetts, and Florida and New Jersey, those are iner-city problems area.Those Domincan that are repatriated or deported are stripped of heir US citizenship.

With a recent case, just finished, a local judge of the Appeals Court granted citizenship to some Haitians. this case will go all the way to the Supreme Court. The Minister for Foreign Relations has suggestes a slight change in the applicable part of the DR Constitution. Article 11 (I think), section 2 (I think) says that anyone born in the Dr is a Dominican, EXCEPT children born to diplomats, persons in transit or illegal immigrants.
Most jurists here say that the last words exclude the illegal Haitian immigrants and their children. However, this is in debate right now.

We shall see.

HB
Who will be in the INS on Monday....

I got a little confused about the subject of this thread. It seems to be stumbling between U.S. and Dominican immigration law but I am going to defer to the person who started the thread and limit my comments to the Dominican constitution.

It seems pretty clear to me that the children born in the Dominican Republic whose parents are illegal immigrants at the time of their birth have no initial citizenship rights. Granting such rights to those children would apparently require a consitutional amendment.

I know there are many strong opinions about questions of what is or isn't right but I often ask myself how many naturalized Americans of Dominican origin who oppose granting citizenship rights to the children of Haitian immigrants appreciate the utter hypocrisy of their position. Also, can any reasonable person believe that denying citizenship to those children will reduce or elminate attempts to leave Haiti for the Dominican Republic? Finally, should Haiti deport all the Dominican nightclub and beauty parlor owners and employees in response to the hardline Dominican immigratin policies some advocate?

My personal opinion is that Dominican lawmakers should sponsor a general referendum and abide by the will of the electorate. I further think the U.S. and European perspective is that refugees from Haiti and Dominican Republic are economically and socially indistinguishable.

Giving Haitians the right to vote will start a political confict that will cost lifes, and the opportunity for the extreme right to take power by votes or by force. The Haitian culture of conficts made Haiti into what it is today, pure hell. If you give them the opportuniy, they will do it to the whole island. Haiti is a failed nation, there are reasons for that.

JenniferDiaz, I think the thread was about who is entitled to the Dominican nationality, not about Haitians' (supposed) incapability for democracy.

This is a very diffucult situation to determine...

If the Haitians come over illegally, it does not seem fair to grant them citizenship, as they are Haitian, obviously...

However, if they have children in the R.D., and they are illegally in the R.D, the children should have at least Haitian citizenship, however most of the children born from Haitian descent are given no citizenship and considered non-persons.

Now, if a Haitian is brought over to cut sugar cane by a Dominican, the government or the mafia, whoever brings them over, they are brought to work for the most part full-time in the R.D., they thus live there, if they are working. Most individuals are brought over and stripped of there citizenship upon arrival. They live in the R.D. for 5 years, 10 years, even there entire life and as any normal person would, have children. Now, the children are considered non-persons because there parents are of Haitian decent, meanwhile there parents were brought here to work and to live? This does not make any sense. They were born in the R.D., live there and will most likely spend there entire life in the R.D. I consider them a citizen. They are much more Dominican, than they are Haitian, they do not know the culture in Haiti, they know the culture in the Domincan Repuclic.

Now, if the children of the Haitian people brought to the R.D, have children of their own, what are they considered, non persons as well because the parents of their parents are from Haiti? When does the cycle stop? When does it change from being a Haitian, to a non-citizen, to a citizen of R.D? Generations, after generations of individuals live in the R.D. with Haitian blood. When is the point that they become non-citizens to citizens? Are there set guidelines for this? Generations, and generations of non-citizens, just increases the cycle of poverty, illiteracy, and decreases any chance of getting a job in which individuals of Haitian descent who live in the R.D. can contribute to the country and move away from the cycle.

When does the cycle switch over from Haitian nationality to Dominican nationality?

I guess, I can't really answer the question asked, but I believe that if an individual is born in the R.D, there has to be a point in their lives in the R.D, that they become a citizen, as they are living there on the land and working. Without citizenship, there is not many opportunities, whether it is Haitian or Dominican.

I hope this made sense....

Pib, the reason why we are talking about this, is because of the haitians. So, we must look at the whole picture. Remember this is a special case, this is one island and there are reasons why it is divided. There are big differences between the two countries and you know that.

Now, if the Haitians were white, yo apuesto que nosotros, los super-duper 'superior' Dominicans would be begging them to cross the border and whiten our people. Ain't that a shame?!

-Jose?to
Telling it like it is. Sometimes.

jose?to said:

Now, if the Haitians were white, yo apuesto que nosotros, los super-duper 'superior' Dominicans would be begging them to cross the border and whiten our people. Ain't that a shame?!

-Jose?to
Telling it like it is. Sometimes.

Click to expand...

I think that that most Dominicans despise Haitains and are against babies being born to Hatian mothers automatically becoming Dominican citizens because:
1)The horrible history between the two countries fighiting sanguine wars over control of the island and
2)The fear that an influx of Hatians will further depress the economy

The fact that Hatians are black and Dominicans have an archaic negative attitude towards dark skin is just a by-product of this joseito.Maybe if the French had prevailed over their revolting slaves 300 years ago and the present day overall complexion of Haiti was much whiter..Dominicans would despise white skin instead.
Larry

Larry...

Believe me when I tell you that past conflicts HAVE NOTHING to do with the hatred that some Dominicans have towards our Haitian brothers. I am Dominican, and I lived and attended school there, and I'll never claim to know anything else, but THIS I know: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PAST CONFLICTS; It is purely based on racial prejudice. I KNOW.

-Jose?to
Hypocrisy knows no boundaries

Re: Larry...

jose?to said:

Believe me when I tell you that past conflicts HAVE NOTHING to do with the hatred that some Dominicans have towards our Haitian brothers. I am Dominican, and I lived and attended school there, and I'll never claim to know anything else, but THIS I know: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PAST CONFLICTS; It is purely based on racial prejudice. I KNOW.

-Jose?to
Hypocrisy knows no boundaries

Click to expand...

Fair enough Joseito.What I stated was purely what I see as an outsider looking in.My exposure to Dominican ways of thinking is fairly limited.
Larry

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jose?to
Believe me when I tell you that past conflicts HAVE NOTHING to do with the hatred that some Dominicans have towards our Haitian brothers. I am Dominican, and I lived and attended school there, and I'll never claim to know anything else, but THIS I know: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PAST CONFLICTS; It is purely based on racial prejudice. I KNOW.

-Jose?to
Hypocrisy knows no boundaries
-------------------------------------------------------------------------



Joseito,

Please remember Dominicans are not pure whites,
70% of our population is mulata. As a latino or hispanic country that is part of our culture, and we are proud of that mixture.

The haitians are the REAL RACIST, they are proud of being pure blanks. In their history of never ending conficts, they have racist wars between blacks and mulatos. You need to really study their history and their present, then you will understand that this is not as simple as you are trying to put it.

Plus, a massive migration from a poor country to another poor country creates big social problems in terms of having to provide educational, medical care, and enough jobs for all.

JenniferD?az...

Ms. D?az,

I respect your opinion. And that?s fine, especially if viewed from the perspective of history books. New generations of Dominicans believe the politically driven charges that our collective attitude towards Haitians is the result of years of conflicts and disputes between the two nations. That?s our version of ?Remember the Alamo.? Politicians are having a field day. It?s our new call for patriotism, our feel-good Prozac. However, I KNOW from experience that racial prejudice is what drives us.

-Jose?to
The quintessential pariguayo

Joseito,

This is not the "perspective of history books" , this is part of their present. A few months ago their president Jean-Bertrand Aristide, started to play the racist card againt the opposition by saying that he represents the people of Haiti, because he has "the same color of skin" and that he "love them" and the opposition do not. How racist can you get?

This is also saying that his problems come because he is black, not because he makes mistakes.

Joseito

I tried not to comment further in this thread because I am not Dominican but you just sound like a typical "bleeding heart liberal".the "I WILL NOT GO QUIETLY" statement and all that shit.Why would you be so upset that a lot of Dominicans dislike Hatians anyway; unless maybe YOU are a Hatian posing in this forum as a Dominican.And saying that it is based "Purely on skin color" or whatever you said is stupid.People dont just wake up and decide one day that they dont like Black people solely because they are Black...People develop negative attitudes from bad experiences with a race of people.As I re-read your last couple of posts I have come to the conclusion that you are either:
1)Hatian
2)A narrow minded liberal, or
3) a child

Robert kindly luck this sucker.
Larry

Larry...

And for a moment I thought I had enlightened you on our ways of thinking. Oh, well, call me what you will--a Haitian, narrow-minded liberal, childish, or whatever--the fact is that Dominicans are just as racist as any other group of people. And you might counteract with stuff like, "well, it takes one to know one." And that's OK, but I know better. What I FAILED to see is where I may have insulted you.

-Jose?to
Not in the inner sanctum to ask for threads' closure. The perpetual outsider, and proud member of the ACLU.