How can "they" get away with it?

earosemena · Jan 8, 2003

I just came back from Bavaro. I meet several Dominicans employed in the hotel industry working 14-16 hours/day, getting payed for 8 with days off dependent on the needs of the hotel, (11 to 15 days span.) One of them told me that b4 loving Hipolito laws had been enacted mandating overtime pay, but that he had made underhanded agreements with the hotel owners disregarding this law. Mother of Jesus, how far can exploitation go?

jrshd9 · Jan 8, 2003

How can they get away with it

And here I thought the pesco had lost alot of value!

The way to stop it? When any goverment sees a loud enough public outcry, a complete uprising of it's people, willing to risk everything, including life, is when change takes place.

Now I have done the easy part....talked about it

But who would have ever bet against the british in late 1700

john

kingofdice · Jan 8, 2003

As "grist mill" as it sounds with some hotel employees working double shifts for many consecutive days and not getting paid overtime, unless there are laws on the books, stipulating that overtime must be paid, it is legal. Regardless that is not fair to the workers. Does anyone like it? No. It is draining and brutal to make someone work those kind of long hours on a daily basis. But, the D.R. is not the U.S. Even if labor laws are on the books, you can bet that some crafty Dominican employers will use loopholes to avoid paying overtime wages.

jrshd9 · Jan 8, 2003

The anti war movement broke every law on the books, everyone involved was wanted, you think if people are getting paid to prevent owners from paying ot and they are the lawmakers that anything will change, hell no, this is a complete social and culture change , the govt has been screwing the public forever and from some of the treads its a way of life! No to make that kind of change you are talking a "war" on the govt, riots, strikes, civil disabedence, all of that is very extreme, but the reality is it's the only way to change crooked are very bad govt's, didn't say I promote it , i just answered your ? on how to do it.

John

Criss Colon · Jan 9, 2003

The people who you talk to always have a "STORY"!

The DR has some of the strongest laws infavor of workers rights that I have ever seen.14 days vacation from the first year.Overtime pay.Severance pay if you are fired! Extra months pay in Dec. The people you talk to tell you these "Horror Stories" so that you will feel sorry for them and give,or send, them money.Or so that you will bring them gifts when you return.Most hotels are owned by foreign or multi-national corporations,and they are monitored even more closely by the Sec.Of Labor! No one is holding a gun to the head of these employees.They are well paid by Dominican standards.People come from all parts of the country to work at these hotels.They practice these "Sob Stories" to tell the tourists! CRIS

kingofdice · Jan 9, 2003

Thanks Criss for enlightening. It figures that those stories are sob material to play out a scam on unsuspecting foreigners. I wouldn't think of doing such a thing. Say Criss, ..could you loan me $500 to pay off my markers at the casino. Thanks old buddy.

earosemena · Jan 9, 2003

I know the people involved and the stories ARE TRUE. These are not ?sob? stories but fact. I'm a witness. In Bavaro and Punta Cana area overtime IS NOT being paid and days off are decided at the convenience of the hoteliers. Check the new Breezes, former LTI Sol del Plata, for example. The agreements may be in the laws, but obviously there is a way to circumvent the law. There is A LOT of hard working Dominicans being exploited.

Tony C · Jan 10, 2003

They can always quit. Nobody is keeping them there. Slaves are exploited. Prisoners are exploited. Children are exploited. A person who can leave a job anytime he or she wishes is not being exploited. Don't give me any sob story about having mouths to feed or how tough it is to get a job! I am sure there are thousands of Dominicans who would love to have his or her job. So I suggest that they either shut up and work or look for another job!
BTW your friend is probobly the same person who gave me such lousy service last time I was there

JOHNNY HONDA · Jan 10, 2003

try to get away doing dick for work after 90 days in the U.S.

T his country has many problems however mistreatment of workers isnt one of them,sure the wages are low,sure you cant get welfare or unemployment insurance(thank god)but if youve ever had your own business you will know that the workers are well protected to the point of beware the shiftless ones and get rid of them before 90 days or they qualify for liquidation.I have seen many employers pulling out their hair when this 90 days)gotha now)period is over.Try slowing down or decreasing your work in the real world and its see ya.Here after 90 days its now turkey if ya want to get rid of me pay up,if you are unfotunate enough to have an employee for 5/10 years and they decide they dont want to work anymore they just stop performing ,as in ffuck you you dont like it fire me,I have seen cases where liquidating employees turned bad has bankrupted companys,nah lifes not that bad here for the worker.
J.H.

earosemena · Jan 10, 2003

Both points well taken.

leonardo1267 · Jan 11, 2003

Chris Colon you are totally wrong, those are not bogus stories, it is a reality that there are a lot of hotels/resorts that disregard the labor laws, and the worst offenders are the one from Bavaro which are administered by Spain hotel chain(riu,bavaro, melia etc.)

Tony C, you are a heartless individual, I guess you must be a exploiter yourself.

Robert · Jan 11, 2003

Labor laws are very strong here, stronger than any country I know of.
The laws are in some cases a deterrent to employing people as they are so strong.

If someone is legally employed and being exploited here it's because they are letting themselves be exploited. Most Dominicans are very well informed on what's goes and what doesn't in regard to being employed.

Forget trying to employ someone on a contract basis, it's almost legally impossible, yet in many other countries, this is very common practice.

We recently looked into this at DR1, and in the end we came to the conclusion and with some legal advice, that it was easier not to take on the project than have to deal with employing people for it. End result, we loose, the local market looses, Dominicans loose!

For every story you hear of someone being exploited, you can usually come up with 10 more stories of people that have taken their company to the cleaners, won a case or been paid off etc etc.

JOHNNY HONDA · Jan 14, 2003

Example
Iwork under contract as a comissionista which means I work for commision only no way can they force me to work more hours than I want or respect their work schedule Provision in my contract says no liquidation.I signed it and laughed,you cannot sign away your legal rights. The laws concerning severence pay in this country are the strongest I have ever seen anywhere in the world
J.H.

mariaobetsanov · Jan 24, 2003

Gov' is not for the People/Gold rules

The rule of control allways been he who has the gold is king. In dealing with indutries, he gov't allways give into the one with he most power. It is extremely hard for an elleceted/public servant to protect the citizens rights when faced by a BIG BOY CARRYING A LARGE BAG OF POWER. FEARS OF HE HAVE NOT IS GREAT. especially by anyone In PRD \/socialist tendenciesare within this party since it start, especially on the top of the pary chain of command.

Criss Colon · Jan 24, 2003

Maria,if what you are saying,or trying to say, is..............

....that big hotels,factories in the Zona Francas,large international Corporations or even Discos and bars,can take advantage of their employees by making them work extra hours without pay,no vacations,don't pay the Christmas Bonus,fire them without "Liqudating" them(Give them Money for each year,or part of a year, worked) you don't have any experience with employees,or any idea what the hell you are talking about!All the Political Parties protect employees rights,to a fault! Employee is ALWAYS RIGHT,employer is always WRONG!!! Didn't you read this Thread? Are we all just Lying? CRIS

Robert · Jan 24, 2003

mariaobetsanov - Your wrong!

Larry · Jan 24, 2003

Re: The people who you talk to always have a "STORY"!

Criss Colon said:
The DR has some of the strongest laws infavor of workers rights that I have ever seen.14 days vacation from the first year.Overtime pay.Severance pay if you are fired! Extra months pay in Dec. The people you talk to tell you these "Horror Stories" so that you will feel sorry for them and give,or send, them money.Or so that you will bring them gifts when you return.Most hotels are owned by foreign or multi-national corporations,and they are monitored even more closely by the Sec.Of Labor! No one is holding a gun to the head of these employees.They are well paid by Dominican standards.People come from all parts of the country to work at these hotels.They practice these "Sob Stories" to tell the tourists! CRIS

I know nothing of Dominican Labour Laws but I do know that about a million dominicans(both men and women) on my last trip tried to sell me some bullshit story hoping I was dumb enough to give them a handout and everyone I had to pay for something claimed to not have change in the hopes of ripping me off a little so I think Criss is probably right.

Eddy · Jan 25, 2003

Amen to Criss, Johnny, Rob and everyone else. Dominican workers get better portection than any other country. Where else can you catch someone stealing from you, confront them and have them leave then go the the labour boad and you wind up having to liquidate them "God I wish it was the way I interpret liquidate" have them claim and get most of the money they are intitled (sic) to. It happened to me several years ago and I'm sure still happens to others. Forget any sob stories. They are all well paid for what they do and happy to have a job. If business owners had to pay any more, the prices would go up and then every one would say that it's too expensive in the DR.

Hillbilly · Jan 26, 2003

I am sorry earosemena but there is something very very fishy. All these people have to do is go to the local labor office and file a complaint. They get copies of this complaint and if no action is taken they can go to the press, to Santo Domingo or to the regional Labor office. They will be compensated.
If workers in the US had the protection the Dr workers have unemployment would be at 25%, since no one could afford to hire anyone..
I am looking at getting 10 tobacco rollers. My plan is to lay them off at 85 days, and rehire them two weeks later, IF I CAN! Otherwise I am going to be looking at a huge payout in December. BUT, the new Social Security package is going to eliminate the Liquidation package of the old laws. However, if these 10 guys work out and produce ( as in my dreams?) I think we can manage within the law...
Can you imagine what Worldcom or Tyco or Enron would have had to pay in order to close down? That SOB Lay would have had to hock his shorites....

HB

Jim Hinsch · Jan 27, 2003

A beach business I know of won their case. They still had to pay, just not as much. That was with the ruling that the employee was never an employee, but was instead, independent and working for commissions. I think he got RD$400 instead of RD$4000. I think legally, he should not have gotten anything. He didn't work there. He was just a beach tout with a dispute.

How can "they" get away with it?

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