Education in the Dominican Republic

Texas Bill

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Since arriving in the DR in June of 2000, I have been constantly intrigued by the "system"(?) of education used here.
It appears to me that whatever system is being used, it isn't working! My observation has been that the parents of students don't seem to apply the discipline necessary, nor does the school system seem to give a d--- about whether the students learn or not. The attitude of "it's all a game" seems to prevail with absolutely no support from either the private or federal circles.
Have others observed this phenomena, or am I alone???
Is it unwritten govmt policy to keep the people ignorant (ie, uneducated, therefore unknowledgable) or is it merely the same syndrome we suffered in the US at the turn of the 20th century that education was only for a select few??
OR, is it(from a bigots attitude, not mine) tht the thinking is that Dominicans are too stupid, as a whole, to waste time educating them.
I realize what I am posing is primarily a philosophical question, but one that has the imperitive that if this nation is to progress, it's people MUST have the educational background to do so.
An example would be:
When told I hailed from Texas, several Dominicans have asked 'what part of Nueva York is that?', indicating that either Geography is not taught, or, that those persons paid no attention. What is the answer.
I see 16, 17, and 18 year old peoplee (I hesitate to call them children) who have reached only the 7th or 8th grade.
Why is such the norm instead of the exception?
I would seriously like to know how a change can take place and how bring about such a change.
Does anyone have any ideas, or does complacency prevail.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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Well Texas, we have talked about this ad nausium, but here is a synopsis:
!) There is some good education available, but not necessarily pulbic, but even that (see today's DR1 News) can be generalized.
2) Most dominican families will go hungry to send their kids to the best school that they can afford.
3) When the government is spending nearly 20% of the budget on the Armed Forces and useless bureaucracy, there is little money left over for public education. When the state's only university (UASD) required political affiliation as a pre-requisite for getting ahead, is the home for the far left politics and believes in the socialist education policies of the 60s, has 100,000 students and graduates maybe 1200 a year at a cost of a billion plus pesos a year, go figure!
4) Years ago being a teacher was considered to be prestigious. Now it is considered to be stupid.
5) Unlike Jewish or Chinese or Japanese or Korean families, Dominicans, as well as most Latin Americans, do not have that incredible "drive" for education above all, even though they say they do, and the system is against them anyway.
6) There are outstanding Dominicans in most educational fields, inspite of the adversarial conditions. Medicine, Engineering, computers, finance, arts, aviation....there is no lack of talent, that is for sure...And most of these talents have been educated in the Dominican Public system....!!!!!!

So it is sad that you have seen the down side, there are reasons for it but no excuses.. Take heart....

HB, slightly pontificating....and off to teach a class of Freshman History!!
 

Pib

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Hello, my name is Pib and I am a product of the Dominican education system.

:::: ducks rotten tomatoes ::::

I concur with HB in almost every point. The government (all of them, for years and years and years) have turned education into the Cinderella of our budget. Just last year the government only spent 70% of the money allotted in the National Budget for education, the remaining 30% were used for other things, such as building a statue of the presidumb... but I digress.

As a daughter of a teacher in a public school I think I had the chance to learn a bit of what makes the system particularly inadequate:

1- Teachers earn less money than if they were selling oranges. There's no advantage in being a teacher.

2- There are little or no resources. I remember my mom had to buy her own chalk from her own ridiculous salary.

3- Parents, most times busy trying to earn the bread have little time to help their children at home. If the parents themselves have a low education level then there's little chance they can help even if they wanted.

4- Poverty pushes many children to leave school early. Some work part-time from early on, leaving them with little time for homework.

5- There are no special schools, neither for kids with special need nor for gifted children. They lump them all together, the first will not understand a thing, the second will be very bored.

I don't agree with HB's ideas that people don't have the "drive" to learn. It is just that when you are hungry and lacking education is the last thing on your mind IMHO.
 

nicelifealways

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Actually, any country that cannot invest in education would be in a bad shape in future. I don't know much about the DR but whatever I have gathered in past few years is that the level and quality of education sucks though people are intelligent and smart in a weird way "Tigre!". Too much short term thinking...

Here is what can be done:
a) One cannot really improve the whole system overnight.
b) What the government can do is to create centers of excellence and let them function independently (no corruption allowed there).
c) These centers should be fostered by already outstanding Dominicans around the world.
d) These centers need to be subsidized to a point that any smart person can benefit from it regardless whether he comes from poor or rich families. The teachers need to be paid almost executive grade salaries and given sufficient respect and recognition.
e) Some people who pass from these centers would be motivated enough to pull the rest of the country forward. I am not talking about funding a large 10000 people university, rather making sure that at least 100 to 200 people independent of background get a chance to get ahead.
f) This might sound socialist but it is not, in the short run there would be brain drain to US (better than brain in the drain). But it would all return back.

PS: Starting to enjoy reading DR1...
 

Pib

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[B]Pib[/B] said:
Just last year the government only spent 70% of the money allotted in the National Budget for education, the remaining 30% were used for other things, such as building a statue of the presidumb... but I digress.
That didn't make any sense. I meant "of the money allocated for education in last year's budget the government only spent 70% in its intended purpose".

Phew.
 

Texas Bill

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PIB and the rest... I agree in substance with what you have said, outlined in opening remarks.
I live in the small border town of Manzanillo (Pepillo Salcedo on the map) on the West coast. You know, that place where they are supposed to build the Mega-port ( some here say, 'I'll believe it when I see it.) that is supposed to employ thousands in the prossess of it's building.
I think it very sad that the only jobs to be made available will be those of common labor since very few here would be qualified for anything else.
I started classes in my home in English for anyone wishing to attend. The charge was 25 pesos and that was to pay for the book being used. Everything went fine for 3 weeks. I then announced an exam, which was scheduled for the next class meeting. The attendance went from 40 to 3 overnight! Needless to say, I was disappointed in such, but not discouraged. I continued regular class meetings for another 3 montha, attempting to recapture the enrollment, visiting homes, talking on the street, etc., etc., all to no avail. I finished the course with the ones I had left, and since most of the books went out on credit, lost that investment. I had to conclude that the majority of students just didn't want to learn English. All in all it was a bad experience for me.
Discouraged, NO! Emphatically not. I'll do it again this summer and hope for better student attendance/participation. Maybe the Megaport rumor will give a few the incentive to participate. Also, my Dominican has improved somewhat. Downside, I was 76 in January and suffer from that 'old person's' disease of forgrtting some things and taking longer to memorise.
So, any suggestions??? Comments??? Chewing-outs???
I don't hold with the comments of some fellow expats that Dominicans as a whole are 'dumb and stupid'. Naive in many worldly things, yes. I contribute that to lack of education and exposure to world events and events in this country.
I am told that the salary for teaching 3-4 hours daily is around RD$10,000. Is this true only of Manzanillo, or is such the case throughout the DR? My housekeeper's daughter just finished a short course in Santiago to gain a teacher's position. She is teaching 5 nights/week from 6-9PM in three subjects. I really haven't been able to find out what her full educational requisites are, but I find it hard to believe she has a college degree in anything. It seems like the teachers are instructed briefly on the subjects they are to 'teach' and then cut loose on the students.
Can the students REALLY get an UNDERSTANDING of the subject matter by such a method?
How-some-ever, their system is their system. At least they don't have suicides by students who fail to qualify for a higher, University, education at age 14 like they have had in England.
This has become 'ad nausium', as HB said, so I'll conclude my
"?contribution?" with the comment "Ain't nuthin that's wrong that can't be fixed" OR "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible may take a little longer".
Texas Bill
 

Pib

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Manzanillo? Do you mean the town in the pic below? I spent more time in Manzanillo than I am willing to confess. Cute place though.

I agree with you about teacher (most) not been sufficiently prepared for the task. Basically my dad considers my mom's career more as an expensive hobbie. The money she spent in her education would have been better spent (financially-wise) in any business. RD$10000 for a beginning teacher? Forget it, it ain't true.


mc18.jpg
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Teachers are undervalued and underpaid even in countries with relatively good education systems. Pib, a friend of mine in England who teaches in a primary school also used to have to pay for some educational materials and photocopying. There is no comparison to the pittance teachers get paid here though. I've heard of teachers being paid under RD$5,000 per month per 'tanda' (shift) - or is that for two?

The cynics have pointed out time and time again that while it might not be a conscious policy to neglect the education system, it certainly suits the people in power to have an unsophisticated electorate - how else would they get voted in? Same goes for employers: a skilled and educated populace would mean the end of cheap labour.

Texas Bill, I think you'd encounter that level of ignorance in all parts of the world if you asked someone at random. In western Europe or north America you could easily find people who are equally clueless about world geography. It depends where you look! How many people in your home town could pinpoint the Dominican Republic on a map? Or could tell you what the name of the capital is let alone name a couple of major cities? I find it more indicative of a poor quality education system when I speak to people here who have got as far as getting their university degrees but are still pretty ignorant when it comes to basic general knowledge outside their area of expertise.

But as a supposedly well-educated person, when I find myself frustrated with someone's ignorance, I always try to remind myself that I did not even know this country existed until I was well into my 20s!

Chirimoya
 

Hillbilly

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Texas Bill: What the heck are you doing in Manzanillo? That used to be a great company town...Golf course movie-first run!- theater, commisary with all the stuff you'd find in A&P or Krogers..

10,000$ a moonth? Maybe but it is for at least two "tandas" like Chiri says and teaching only half of the time....In theory 8-12 and 2-6 p.m.... Night school, according to an article in yesterday's el Caribe was paying about 2300 a month....

Pib: I agonized over that comment about the "drive" and I think it might be cultural. The idea that the only hope for a poor family to get ahead is centered on a son getting into the Army aor Police and "Making it"; or getting into the clergy and "making it" or winning the Lottery, or getting to the states....in other words they have only 'external' hopes based on what others do or obtain.

In the states and most of Wester Europe and the Far East, kids are brought up with the idea that education is the key to everything. While it is true that many Dominican families will go into hock to get the kids into a better school, in many cases that is all they do...no pressure to do homework, certainly little assistance with it.

No matter, the BIG problem is money and the lack of it. You hit the nail on the head...

As for the idea of preparing a few "good men" .. That is being done. INTEC, UNPHU & PUCMM are preparing an elite in this country that in 30 years will pretty much run things( They pretty much do right now), hopefully for the better..The problem is the mass of people that dissappear between first grade and highschool---Nearly 70% according to some people..

HB
 

Cleef

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Feb 24, 2002
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My impression after 7 months

Hillbilly said:
.... kids are brought up with the idea that education is the key to everything. While it is true that many Dominican families will go into hock to get the kids into a better school, in many cases that is all they do...no pressure to do homework, certainly little assistance with it.

No matter, the BIG problem is money and the lack of it. You hit the nail on the head...
HB

I profess to know nothing for sure, but my opinion is contained in the first two sentences you wrote. I'll go further to say that perhaps the reason for going into hock is that other Dominican peculiarity - showing off. If Juan or Adriana is in a fine school, it reflects well on the family, regardless of what they get out of it.

I grew up with education being hailed as the greatest thing YOU can do for YOURSELF. This was drilled into me - quite painfully sometimes.

Here in the DR, I see it only in the kids whose parents are teachers. Sans a small handful, the best, brightest and most wonderful to work with are the kids whose parents work at the school. They are the shining light in my day, everyday. They make me work harder and we all reap the rewards, sometimes even the ones that 'mail-it-in' on a daily basis.

HB, perhaps this is the same thing; but when you say "money," it leads me directly to corruption. The government is strangling this country to benefit just a few, and of course who gets hurt the most are those on the bottom rung, in this case the children.

I use the example of shoe-shine boys and kids washing the car windows at intersections to point out to my students that they are EXTREMELY fortunate to have the privilege to be in a school and they damn well better take advantage of it.

I know I've made a difference in some, but I also know that as soon as Friday hits and they shoot out to the campos, the majority don't give a damn about anything but how much money "mi padre wins."

Many feel this country has no hope, that discourages me to no end at times. However, I tell them over and over "be the change you want to see."

I see the gears working, but to change a culture is a massive undertaking.

I do have hope though, this country is not "poor" by any stretch of the imagination, IMHO. It is rich in many resources, however, it all starts at the top, and the "people" need to show they will no longer stand for being abused by their "elected" leaders.

Until that changes, everything else will stay the same. That you can bank on - however, do your banking somewhere else.
 

Cleef

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No, private. I assume you mean a Public school when you say "state"?

When I came here my intention was to not work for a boutique school - Carol Morgan, etc. I wanted to work with hungry kids (not literally, but hungry for knowledge - well perhaps a little of both). My decrepit old man once said "hunger is a great motivator."

I ended up at a sudo-boutique school, and understand that I have absolutely zero regrets, but I'd make sure it was public if I could spin the clock back.

But I have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.
 

Chirimoya

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Thanks!

Yes: State as in public, only I didn't say public because for Brit-English speakers like me Public School = private. Crazy I know.

It was pretty obvious from your post that your experiences were in the private sector, I imagine that a teacher in the public/state school sector would tell a different story. All very illuminating nonetheless, and wherever you do it I am sure you are doing an excellent job.

Chiri
 

Amber

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to put my two cents in, all I can say is that if I don't hit the books with my kids, they won't learn and they attend the supposedly best private school here.
I also teach, but in my own school, so can't give opinion about the public system first hand. I do agree with pib, though. It all depends on what the idividual makes of what he is offered, but very little is offered.
Amber
 

Bugsey34

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Feb 15, 2002
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From my experience filling in for some teachers in a public school in Esperanza held on the grounds of an orphanage, I think that one of the most important things wrong with the system are the teachers themselves.

There are some who are very, very good. They are enthusiastic and creative in trying to keep their kids engaged, and they make do with what they can, even when they are sharing school rooms with 3 other classes and pretty much all you can hear is kids screaming. In my case in Esperanza this teacher is the wife of the principal of the school, she was the best. The salaries for that family were so low they sold popcorn for a few pesos to the kids at lunch break to make some extra money. Can you imagine buying popcorn off your principal at lunch? I think they might be getting some financial assistance from the volunteer organization that sent me there, too.

But there are others who don't really care as much, I don't know why they're in it since the pay is so little anyway. From spending times in classes like this, what usually happens is that those kids that want to learn pay attention and probably are getting something out of it. THose that don't will simply get up and walk out of the class to play unless someone happens to stop them. They can be motivated, but who has the time to personally motivate each one falling behind when there are so many?

So basically I have seen some really bad classrooms, so bad I had to leave because I was too upset, but it was always because the teacher felt totally overwhelmed and/or didn't care what was happening to the kids. On the other hand, with very engaged teachers who, despite the problems, enjoyed their jobs, made it work.

I even have a very good Dominican friend who, one day a couple years ago when I was overwhelmed with a class of 1st graders, (some of whom I had to teach how to count from 1-10) came to my rescue with a big stick that he banged on a desk and told everyone to sit down and listen to me. They did, and we started working on math problems... he stayed with me and helped some of the kids and was so good with them, he absolutely had a natural talent for it. And that guy is now studying to be a teacher at the Instituto de Tecnico y Metodo (? something like that) in Santiago.
 

Cleef

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From DR1.com newstory, 2.26.03

Teachers strike on in Santo Domingo
Although the public school teachers? walkout scheduled for yesterday and today in Santiago and Santo Domingo did not have the support of the teachers? union officials, it was effective in Santo Domingo. The unofficial walkout was called to demand pay raises, better working conditions and superior equipment for the schools. Reporters from the Listin Diario traveled around Santo Domingo yesterday and attested that the majority of the schools were closed. According to Danilo Caminero, head of the Santo Domingo chapter of the Dominican Association of Professors (ADP), a large part of the problem is that the government has not fulfilled its obligations in the accords reached last August, especially with regard to pay incentives. According to the agreement, the base pay for teachers in the public sector was to be raised from RD$2,915 per session (morning, afternoon or evening) to a range of RD$3,600 to RD$4,200. According to Minister of Education Milagros Ortiz Bosch, the city loses RD$8 million every day that schools remain closed. The head of the ADP, Eduardo Cuello, called the protests ?unauthorized and isolated incidents.?
 

Pib

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"RD$2,915 per session" is short of RD$6000.00 for a full day of work plus extra hours at home doing plans and grading exams and such. I insist, they would make more money selling oranges in the street. So sad.
 

lapanamena

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Feb 27, 2003
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Re: Education in the DR

As an educator myself I can say that poverty and its effects are the main factors that contribute to the lack of education ANYWHERE!!! Now, poverty is a complex state of being where the lack of money is not the only evil. There is the lack of support, lack of resources, mental and physical illness, lack of spare time, lack of transportation, ... and the list goes on. Here in the U.S., there are tons of resources available to those in need. However, most people aren't aware of them, or even know how to utilize them to their benefit. So it isn't only in the DR that you find an alarming amount of uneducated people, you also find them in Asia, India, and the rich USA, because there are people that live in poor, rural areas of the country.
 

kmcdavitt

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Aug 12, 2007
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Help I Have So Many Questions!

Does the Dominican schooling influence other nations? Haiti?

What are the Dominican teachers like? Strict....? Compared with U.S. teachers

Are there any customs or Traditions that happen during the school year or the school day?

Do any religious practices or learning happen in school?


Please help me with these questions it is very hard to find this information on the internet. Thanks :)
 

kmcdavitt

New member
Aug 12, 2007
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Help I Have So Many Questions!

Does the Dominican schooling influence other nations? Haiti?

What are the Dominican teachers like? Strict....? Compared with U.S. teachers

Are there any customs or Traditions that happen during the school year or the school day?

Do any religious practices or learning happen in school?


Please help me with these questions it is very hard to find this information on the internet. Thanks :)