re: Investment in the D.R. a blackhole?

kingofdice

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Jan 16, 2002
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re: Investment in the D.R. a blackhole?

Recent news is that a delegation from the United Arab Emirates is in the DR to invest $4.1 billion U.S. Dollars in the Montecristi and Dajabon provinces for a new shipping port, duty free zone, ecological park, 1500 new homes, and 2 airports, one for passengers and the other for cargo. Does this Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem really expect to turn a profit from his investment, insomuch that there is little money in circulation in the D.R.?

My take is that this Sultan for Dubia Ports has too much money to throw around and is making a poor investment, in a country known for corruption. Am I off base here? I know there are some foreign investors like the Spanish companies that have their foot on the neck of the Dominican poplulation for electricity. But, I think that is a different scenario. People and businesses need electricity. Also, it is my understanding that a new deep port for container ships has recently opened in Andres, next to Boca Chica? How many shipping ports can the DR support?

I can't imagine that any investor, whether a rich Sultan from Dubai or any foreign investor could be serious about a return on a multi-billion dollar investment in the D.R. Any comments?
 
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Jon S.

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:ermm: Maybe they'll have their own power, as some companies in DR already do. If he has enough money for the houses, airports and the other stuff, then he should have enough to build his own power plant. Something to think about......
 

Criss Colon

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Never believe what you read in the Newspapers In The DR!

The same families who control the banks,and financial institutions,also control the News Papers, TV/Radio,and just about everything else! Want the value of the peso to go up? Lots of multi-Billion Dollar investment projects to begin soon!!!!Want the peso to go down? Lots of "Doom & Gloom" fills the "MEDIA"! "Nothing",is for "Nothing" here! Don't think you are going to "Out Smart" the "Big Guys" who control this Country and everything in it!!You can't,and you won't!!!! Just enjoy the weather and the Water! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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I'll tell what you CAN believe. As the newspapers are printing now, and something I posted on a while ago, one reason the DR keeps getting all these scandalous loans is that the DR government promises the lenders (such as Eximbank-USA) to use the proceeds of the loans to import goods and services at inflated prices. So the way it works is like this: 1) the DR borrows US$500 million, it only gets US$400 million, with the US$100 million held as collateral or initial payment on the loan. 2) of the US$400 million, a large chunk goes to both US and DR middlemen, 3) of the rest, say US$350million, the DR is then contractually obligated to purchase goods and services from the company or country that loaned the money (at inflated prices, of course), 4) of the money that is left, the politicians and dirty businessmen get their chunk, 5) whatever is left is spent on projects that never finish.


FOrward, if you please, at least 5 years when the loan principal of the loan is due....where is the money to pay it back? Did the initial investment yield the kind of returns to allow paying it back without taking out another loan?
 

Dolores1

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Several foreign investments in the Dominican Republic have been highly profitable. You already mention the power companies, but many large hotel ventures that expected to turn a profit in three years were in black and generating good profits in under a year (talking here about Barcelo specifically). Telecom industries have done well -- ask the newcomers, Orange (France Telecom). This still is a country where everything needs to be improved or set up. Lots of room for investors. Of course, you need to do your homework and connect with the right people.
 

kingofdice

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Well, I am bit surprised that Orange was able to gain some market share, especially in light that Codetel and Tricom seemed to be the dominant players in Dominican telecom market. I guess Dolores comment rings pretty much true, you have to be connected with the right people (honest lawyers, contractors, vendors, etc.) Not to seem like a basher, but putting an honest infrastructure in place to make a profit without having to deal with kickbacks and commissions every step of the way seems to be formidable challenge in the DR. Should it be assumed that the only way to avoid such direct dealing with a culture of graft is to hire very expensive lawyers who will insulate you from the entire process. Perhaps, foreign investment inevitably means dealing with dishonest politicians, contractors, lawyers and that if you can generate sufficient cash flow to get by all the skimmers along the way, that you still have made a profit and the effort can be justified. I do concur that there are some companies making some profit in the D.R. It is obviously not Haiti, but I still categorize investing in the D.R. as very risky.
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Mondongo,

You forgot the interlocking directorates. It works like this: Mr. Blueblood is an executive, director and large owner of XYZ Industries in Charlotte, North Carolina. XYZ is a major manufacturers of widgets. And, guess what, Mr. Blueblood is also a director of the ExIm Bank, having been appointed in thanks for his generous contribution to the Republic National Committee.

XYZ Industries, using the ubiquitous Dominican "middleman", then approaches the PRD with this great idea to build a new piece of infastructure in Loma de Cabrera or some other porqueria place that, guess what, requires millions of dollars in widgets to construct.

As you mentioned, the loan will require that only US widgets be used - with a wink and a nod that the widgets will in fact come from XYZ.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Mr. Blueblood is also on the Board of Directors at the Bank of Credit and Commerce of North Carolina, which will actually handle the transaction and get a big piece of the action.

And, of course, as you mentioned, the project, whatever it is, will not be completed, with no benefit of the bargain and no enhanced economic prductivity obtained with which to pay the loan. Future generations of Dominican poor and middle class (what's left of it) will have to deal with the debt.

You know what makes me sick more than anything? Mr. Blueblood actually thinks he's superior to the gravy-sucking PRD slimeballs with whom he's complicit in robbing from the poor. But, then, he probably contibutes greatly to his Baptist church.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention. You "holier than thou" Canadians do the exact same thing.
 

Criss Colon

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Lets not forget to give credit to "Los Espanoles"!!

Who "taught" the Dominicans the art of LYING,CHEATING,and STEALING from your own countrymen!CCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Jon S.

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Jan 25, 2003
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Just wait till Tony C reads the line abuot the "holier-than-thou" Spaniards..........hey Porfio, you sound like you work the same AFSC(career field) that I work in. We deal with all the stuff you're talkin about, the ethics and morals stuff everyday, kickbacks are a ticket to Ft. Leavenworth and people are pricks to us all the time because we're doing the right thing....
 
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Apr 26, 2002
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Criss, I know I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but I see the Americans and Canadians as worse than the Spaniards because the North Americans are more hypocritical. The Americans and Canadians rationalize that they are helping the world, which satisfies their Protestant morality urges, while actually being complicit with corruption and exploitation. The Spaniards are dirty but don't pretend to be otherwise.

Jon, pardon my ignorance, but what is the AFSC? Also, remember that what Mr. Blueblood does is not illegal but, to the contrary, is condoned by official US policy. His Dominican middleman may do funny things, but there is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy that applies. So, if you're in US law enforcement, you certainly won't be going after Mr. Blueblood (it wouldn't be good for career advancement, anyway).
 

Jon S.

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Sorry bout that, a AFSC is Air Force Specialty Code, it just means what is your job, the military has codes for everything and all jobs have their own codes depending on your skill level. I'm not in the FBI so i wouldn't go after Mr. Blueblood or the middleman, but I work in Contracting so this probably happens every once in a while when you've worked for the govt' for a long time and you are a high ranking official, there's gonna be tons of companies who "just want a little bit of your time" and show you what they offer, which would be kickbacks and things of that nature, not always the case but it happens
 

planner

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Corruption etc

Let's face it here - it happens EVERYWHERE!!! But, you are very right, those that want to pretend it doesn't happen in their back yard while they go CLEAN UP someone else's yard, they piss me off too.

I'm a Canadian and recognize it happens all the time! I have a hard time with the holier then thou's....... Who the heck invited anyone to judge the DR or any other country....
 

Criss Colon

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I would hardly use the "Electric Companies" as an example!!

Their "Sweetheart" deals with the Dominican Government allow the consumers to pay the highest rates in the World,and the producers to be paid even when they don't produce,make it virtually impossible for them to not make huge profits!!!!!!! Cris Colon
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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Manzanillo Deep Water Port

Kingofdice;
There will be a meeting between the "Arab Shiek", the Contractor representatives, the local Sindico and other interested parties here in Manzanillo Saturday morning at 9:00AM to discuss/plan/ballyhoo the proposed Megaport and ancilliary environs. To be added are plans for a new coal-powered electric plant adjacent to the Masacre River, a new water distribution system to replace the one fallen into disuse because of incopetance in maintenence, lack of adequate electrical power, you name it.
The new port will occupy the ONLY hurricane-free deep water(over 1500 ft) left in the Carib/Atlantic. Additionally, when this first started, it was spread that the container transfer port of FREEPORT in the Bahamas was to be phased out over the next few years by request of the Bahamian Government. It seems that the land occupied by that Storage area for transshipping , redistribution could best be utilised as Hotel occupancy and would generate more money than the port.
Manzanillo occupies a unique position in that there hasn't been a hurricane here in over 100 years, according to the locals. The land mass from Montecristi apparently prevents such an occurrance by breaking up the patterns before they arrive.
The two airports alluded to would occupy the land adjacent to Copey to the north (the present government bannana and plantain orchard, or at least part of it. The land is well suited for that purpose, being very flat and havint absolutely NO approach obstructions.
In addition, there have been rumors of the installation of a refinery here also. What better place to put one if not immediately adjacent to a deep water port to service the offloading of supertankers! Whether or not that was a wistful rumor or not, the scenario is feasible with the installation of underwater pipelines to facillitate off/on loading of product. And there is PLENTY of land available for all sorts of expansion, construction with no-one to object!
Think about it!
I'll be attending the meeting and will report what I can find out from interpreter friends early next week.

Texas Bill
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Texas,

Port development in Manzanillo makes far too much sense. That's why you can be assured that it will never happen. A train from Santiago to Haina makes no sense at all, so it could happen. Most likely, though, is that neither will happen. Welcome to the DR.
 

PJT

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Jan 8, 2002
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Re: Lets not forget to give credit to "Los Espanoles"!!

Criss Colon said:
Who "taught" the Dominicans the art of LYING,CHEATING,and STEALING from your own countrymen!CCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

Yes, the true example of the best of the art form is to charm the hell out of an acquaintance while picking his pocket, then make the acquaintance feel he/she has been privileged to have had his/her pocket picked. Regards, PJT
 

kingofdice

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Jan 16, 2002
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Thanks Texas Bill for your enlightening post. Very interesting. Well, it might happen. Right now, I would wonder if any one would still want to invest in the DR after the horrific corruption at Baninter. Like Golo has stated, it just paints a terrible stigma that the country is mired deeply in wide-ranging corruption. All the things that you said about the deep port sound good, but can you trust your money in the D.R. or have faith in being able to keep it without draining your profits to nil by having to pay off politicians, corrupt businessmen and vendors.
 

ERICKXSON

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Dec 24, 2002
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Regardless of what i see here happening in the DR don't get me wrong you guys know your stuff, but there's not a place more corrupt than the land that i live THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
but the big guys know how to play their cards and not to get caught, even if they get cought the news will not get to the media. Day and night people loose everything on wall street, day and night people in the streets get out smart by a new scam artists WITH THE NEW SCAM OF THE WEEK! i can't blame a race for the wrongdoing of the world, things might get noticed alittle bit more in the DR nowadays due to the anti-tolerance of peoplethat already have had enough and one day it will hit the fan The Dominican Republic is not different than any other place if the media wouldn't be as good as it is in the DR people wouldn't even notice anything.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i read alot, and in the land that i live there are way bigger scams and way bigger disasters that only the local people can tell.
 

Tony C

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Back it up!!!!!

ERICKXSON said:
Regardless of what i see here happening in the DR don't get me wrong you guys know your stuff, but there's not a place more corrupt than the land that i live THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Correct me if i'm wrong but i read alot, and in the land that i live there are way bigger scams and way bigger disasters that only the local people can tell.

The Gov's Bailout of the Baniter debt will cost over 15% of the DR's Gross Domestic product. Name me one financial scandal in the US that will equal that?

The Savings and loan scandal of the 80's had many exexcutives spending time in Federal prisons. Do you think that Anbody in the DR will spend any significant "Hard Time"?

If you are going to Bitch about something back it up. If not you sound just like any other whinner with no money!
 

ERICKXSON

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Dec 24, 2002
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look tony i have no idea what is the deal there in the DR, but here nobody spend more than one year or so, look at the Emron clowns where are they? having fun in the Caribbean most likely.