Book Recommendation& Racism too!

rubio · May 22, 2003

Book Recommendation

I recently picked up a book at Barnes and Noble. The title is Anthropology And Modern Life by Franz Boas. It's not a newly published book at all- it's been around for quite some time. The author was born in Germany and studied physics. But eventually he began doing work in anthropology (His main interest).

It's rather interesting, particularly the chapter (3) that focuses on the interrelation of races. He discusses a trip that he made to the Dominican Republic many, many years ago.

The part of the chapter discussing D.R. is about 3 pages, but definitely worth a look if you're at a bookstore and happen to see it or ask for it. A quick read.

Rubio

Tony C · May 22, 2003

Rubio,

How about a brief synopsis?

rubio · May 22, 2003

To Tony C:

The book in general discusses such things as: myths, racial, cultural, ethnic superiority, physical characterstics of groups. He also concentrates on particular countries briefly: Brasil, D.R., South Africa, South America, Europe, etc. Relations within the countries. Easy read and cheap only 8.95 USD.

Brief synopsis:
The part delving into D.R. culture/society at the time of his trip, I believe was in the early 20th century. He meets with a local doctor that converses with him about D.R. society at the time. Franz Boas is invited to an evening ball in the town of La Vega where he observes the high society townsfolk gather at the plaza. From this, he describes the intermingling of the various races, etc.

Some of the information is common knowledge but I always enjoy reading different anthropologists' views and manner in which they write it.

(I wouldn't mind typing out certain passages in the thread, but I'm unsure whether it will be deleted by an adminstrator.)

Rubio

JanH · May 22, 2003

If it's just 3 pages, how about typing most of it? may have to split in to 3 threads, but i'm sure everyone would love to read it. I have a similar book where there is a whole chapter on social mores, etc.

If you type word for word, be sure and put in quotation marks.

rubio · May 22, 2003

Okay I'll even add a little documentation:
Anthropology and Modern Life by Franz Boas
Chapter 3 Excerpts

"Dr. Manuel Andrade, in a personal communication, describes the interracial conditions in the Dominican Republic as follows: "There is no restaurant, hotel, or club in which color distinctions are observed. Government positions, of course, are open to all, and we do find Negroes and Mulattoes in all classes of government posts, including presidency." "

Dr. Andrade continues on discussing the topic:
"I had occasion to see a review of a portion of the army. The main officer was almost White, but most of the captains and lieutenants were Negroes. On the other hand, there were several Whites among the common soldiers."

The Dr. adds:

"In the evenings people promenade in the Plazas as in all Spanish-speaking countries. Married and engaged couples may be seen showing all varieties of color combination, including Negroes with light complexioned women. My impression is, however that it is more frequent to find Black men married to White or nearly White women, than White men married to Black women. Economical consideration may be a factor here. A White woman may accept a dark man because of his lucrative occupation or political position."

rubio · May 22, 2003

Continued:

"I was invited to a ball given by a social and literary club in the town of La Vega. The members and guests present showed the same range and variety of color prevalent anywhere in the Republic. They were supposed to represent the best social elements in the town. Among the dancing couples, there were several extreme combinations of apparently pure Negro men and White women."

"The two ladies who own the Hotel de las Dos Hermanas in the city of Santiago de los Caballeros and their brother would be considered White anywhere. Especially the brother, who has light gray eyes and reddish hair. In the course of conversation he asked me in what part of Spain I was born. He proceeded to tell me from what part of Spain his father and his mother's father had come, and added humorously that were it not for the little African blood he had in his veins, he could very well say that he was my fellow countryman. I think this candid reference to to his African ancestors, in the unconcerned manner in which he said it, is a significant index to promote cordial relations toward a guest in his sister's hotel. I find in this instance a corroboration of my general impression, that it makes no difference whether one has Negro blood in him, though it may make some difference for such admixture to be in evidence in his features of color."

"In the current social intercourse between man and man I was not able to detect the slightest indication of prejudice. In one instance, a nearly White man trying to describe a certain individual had forgotten whether he was White or 'pardito'."

For your reading pleasure, enjoy.

Rubio

Criss Colon · May 22, 2003

As you can see,

Nothing has changed in the DR! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

JanH · May 22, 2003

That's why I wanted to read the observations from early 20th Century - to see if I detected much difference.

Enlighten me here - I was under the impression that the lighter the complexion, the more social acceptance the dominican has.
And darker people having lighter complexioned friends gives them status. (This is just what I have read over the years)

But from Rubio's quotes, shade of color didn't make that much difference?

rubio · May 22, 2003

JanH said:
Enlighten me here - I was under the impression that the lighter the complexion, the more social acceptance the dominican has.
And darker people having lighter complexioned friends gives them status. (This is just what I have read over the years)

But from Rubio's quotes, shade of color didn't make that much difference?

Perhaps shade of color is more important now than at that time in that setting.

However, I do not doubt that the 'pure' African men that courted White women believed that they were "whitening" the next generation of children. Shade of color certainly did play a role in D.R. society in some way, (Even though this particular writer did not touch on it in depth)

Rubio

Chris · May 22, 2003

JanH said:
That's why I wanted to read the observations from early 20th Century - to see if I detected much difference.

Enlighten me here - I was under the impression that the lighter the complexion, the more social acceptance the dominican has.
And darker people having lighter complexioned friends gives them status. (This is just what I have read over the years)

But from Rubio's quotes, shade of color didn't make that much difference?

I wonder -- this was in the time when Germany was greatly involved with thoughts of the 'pure race'. I know Franz Boaz's writing. This also has to be seen in the context of his own infrastructure at the time. He was involved in trying to find out whether 'skin color' or being 'negro' makes a difference in human society. He is also looking at a very old society. Unlike South Africa, which was a very new society in his time. This is totally fascinating stuff - I was born and brought up in South Africa with all its racism problems. Now I am in the DR with all its racism problems. I'm wondering if all of this stuff is not just 'in the mind'. Stuff that we learnt as we grew up. I don't think color makes one iota of difference, except the difference that you, as an individual, want to make of it.

Forbeca · May 23, 2003

rubio said:
"In the current social intercourse between man and man I was not able to detect the slightest indication of prejudice.

I remember saying that on my first post in this forum, and a reply came back that I was ignorant. Well, I know prejudice people are everywhere but in my circle and as a mixed Dominican, I have never seen it. I associate with people from all walks of life, some are very wealthy, some are not, but they all have one thing in common, they're wonderful caring people. That type of behaviour is not tolerated by anyone of us.

Tony C · May 23, 2003

Forbeca said:
rubio said:

Well, I know prejudice people are everywhere but in my circle and as a mixed Dominican, I have never seen it. I associate with people from all walks of life, some are very wealthy, some are not, but they all have one thing in common, they're wonderful caring people. That type of behaviour is not tolerated by anyone of us.

Click to expand...

You must not get out much them. The DR is an extremely prejudicial society. Not just racial but socio-economically as well.

Forbeca · May 23, 2003

Tony C said:
You must not get out much them. The DR is an extremely prejudicial society. Not just racial but socio-economically as well.

Oh I but I do, I just know who to hang out with. Ever heard of the saying, "Dime con quien andas, y te dire quien eres?

BTW, I didn't say it doesn't exist, I was agreeing with the writer on that particular issue that I quoted.

Golo100 · May 26, 2003

The guy who wrote this was in a different country

I don't know where this writer observed this, but it wasn't in DR. Perhaps he was watching this situation from the point of view of a barrio neighborhood, where you see poor white girls or boys going out and even marrying blacks and darker ones, because they have no choices. It happens even today. You visit Capotillo, Libertador de Herrera, Los Minas, Gualey, atc. and you see many white people mingling and having relationships with blacks. But these are poor whites.

But in the real order of society(above)this just doesn't happen, like Tony C. said. Let me give you several examples. You take the top schools in DR, those with super high tuition and exclusive enough for the high class, and you can count the number of blacks with one hand. Between Carol Morgan School, St. Georges and New Horizons there are not more than 25 blacks enrolled. Even those enrolled are either teachers' kids with scholarships or extremely rich and powerful blacks.

There are clubs and restaurants in DR which still discriminate against blacks. I will not mention their names for legal reasons, but one in particular that closed with that name and reopened with another name in El Malecon and its first name translated to Spanish meant "beautiful" and the second name was named after a song by Christian Castro and a color, flat out sent blacks home!!! Another one that closed in a hotel with a casino next door was extremely careful not to admit blacks on certain days when the white cream was present.

The most discriminating aspect is the publication of weekly magazines in our top two newspapers, Listin Diario and Hoy. If you buy their Saturday issues you will note that blacks are not seen anywhere and none are ever headlined or placed in the front cover. If you bear a foreign last name your chances of getting your picture are better. German, English, and French names are tickets to fame in DR.

Our social and country clubs are white enclaves, so are our golf clubs in our resort areas. Golf tournaments are exclusively white. A few blacks are now getting into tennis, but only because their talent is so superior they cannot be stopped.

This is nothing new. It happened for almost 40 years since Trujillo took over, even though Trujillo had several blacks in his administration and Negro Trujillo was dark. Some blacks like Dr. Charles Dunlop and generals like "Largito"were prominent at the time.

TW

NYC_Girl · May 26, 2003

I tend to agree with Golo.
While I am not Dominican, I am married to one and I see the discrimination even within the family.

Since there are step-brothers, step-sisters, there is a wide range of color in the family.

The ones that are light skinned with light eyes are in a different social circle than the darker skinned family members.

When I first met one of my sister-in-laws in the Dominican, she had a maid (dark skinned), I later found out that she was actually a cousin.

So, yes, while everyone mingles, there is always an underlying discrimination. It may not be attributed to just skin color, but social class.

Larry · May 26, 2003

I am surprised at what Mr. Boas relayed in his book because I have definately seen a color-class system in my limited travels to the DR.I was amazed when I went to a few nice clubs in Santiago how white everyone was. I thought they were Europeans..but they were upscale Dominicans who gathered together in the same places. Even when I go into a bank in Sosua, it seems that all the tellers with nice jobs are white. You dont see light skinned Dominicans doing the difficult manual labor in the streets.There is an obvious seperation based on skin color.
One thing that I noticed is that Dominicans come right out and say their opinions toward those darker. I have heard Dominicans say they dont like blacks or that black people "eat shit" and look like gorrilas and so on. In the USA, everyone has gotten so politically correct that if you harbor opinions such as these, you are forced to keep them to yourself. In the DR it seems common practice to voice your opinion without any backlash. You can actually SAY what you FEEL. Quite refreshing actually coming from the USA where everyone walks around like robots and thinks one thing but says another so as not to OFFEND. I am not saying that racism is a good thing, I just hate the fact that the USA has developed into a hipocracy where the first amendment might as well be written on toilet paper.
Larry

rubio · May 26, 2003

Larry (ILoveDR) said:
I am surprised at what Mr. Boas relayed in his book because I have definately seen a color-class system in my limited travels to the DR.

Keep in mind the book was written in the early 20th century.

Larry (ILoveDR) said:
There is an obvious seperation based on skin color.

I definitely agree with you. There is a color separation but it's not implemented by the government...i.e. "coloreds only" "whites" only" signs. It's more of a social separation, as you know.

And it's true in DR people speak their mind and don't 'pretend' to like you if they don't. I think that's the only thing I dislike about America (particularly the American media) Everything must be politically correct all of the time, 24/7.

My two cents

Rubio

JanH · May 26, 2003

Larry - you are so right about USA. I'm so sick of the political correctness. At work, we can't even raise our voices in a meeting or slam our fist on the table without getting in trouble. We are told we can't "chill" our co-workers. god almighty.

A question I have about color in the DR after reading above responses. I've noticed many "black" people don't really have negroid features in the DR. Is this what someone meant when they said it's not skin color so much as social prominence?

Or can someone be black in color, but if they have white features, they're accepted? If a person is black, but with white features, what is their ancestory?

Are Haitians negros?

Our first encounters in DR were during our stays at Casa de Campo. On weekends, the nightclubs filled with rich dominicans on holiday from Santa Domingo. We thought everyone looked like them - light in color - very attractive. Even the hired help at the resort were attractive - except for laborers and maids. When we got to the northern coast and intermingled with regular citizens, we were surprised at how dark everyone was. Some even had the coarse frizzy hair of negros. Of course, the bank tellers and clerks at high-end retail stores were all very light.

In conclusion, i'll say one thing, the black people of DR sure don't act like the blacks in US. They may be black as our blacks - but the similarities stop there.

AnnaC · May 27, 2003

I'd laugh at the comments if they weren't so sad!!!!

O Dios Mio

ERICKXSON · May 27, 2003

if you are black and you are the son of Johny Ventura the doors will be open anywhere i guess the money plays a major role in this racial situation.

In my first trip to the D.R. in more than 20 years, i went to El Vesuvio Restaurant on El Malecon i was surprised to see that the only mixed person sitting (Trigueno) in the entire restaurant (apart from the servants) was me, let me tell you something i didn't know the D.R. had so many White people untill that day, there was not even a single color person everybody was royalty aswell as the bill $190.00 bucks.

Racism is a state of mind, don't be fooled by people skin color it doesn't pay the rent it doesn't buy you food it does not make you better than your neigbor, racism grows and becomes you, making your brain a slave of your assumptions.

Felix Erickxson
(C) (P) 2003 (A.S.C.A.P) PhatMental Ent.

Book Recommendation& Racism too!

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