where is Columbus?

Keith R

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Chiri's right. This is dispute is quite old -- as in centuries old. I'm surprised that it took everyone this long to get around to DNA testing the bones. When I suggested it years ago, my wife just laughed and said that neither Spain nor the DR would ever agree to that because they were both afraid what they might discover (perhaps even that neither country has the bones!), and both preferred to continue claiming the bones without having to prove it.

My wife and I visited La Catedral de Sevilla in 1989. The Andalucian guide taking a group of us Spanish speakers through the cathedral proudly proclaimed that it was the resting place for Colon's bones. Of course my wife could not let that statement go unchallenged! Funny thing was, there was also a Venezuelan in the crowd who said that Venezuela also claims to have some of Colon's bones!:rolleyes: The guide shrugged and said that while many claimed to have the explorer's bones, "most experts agree" that they rested in Sevilla. My wife responded something to the effect that "most Spanish experts" may agree, but the matter is still in debate in the rest of the world. That's about as far as she decided to take the matter -- unusual restraint on her part -- so as to not spoil our vacation day in argument with the guide.

I personally think the whole dispute's ridiculous, and as Chiri says, ultimately what difference will it make except perhaps to a few historians? I doubt that many people would make a special journey anywhere just to see Columbus' bones.

I have to say that, as a tourist, I would probably prefer to visit the bones at the Catedral de Sevilla than I would at El Faro in SD. The former is lovely and worth visiting while in Seville, bones or no bones. I profoundly dislike El Faro, which I have always regarded as rather ugly and a huge boondoggle. I first visited SD in 1986 and moved there in late 1995, but it was 1998 before I made my first visit to El Faro -- even then only because of a visiting relative who insisted on seeing it. I always thought the money that the DR spends on lighting that thing's spotlights would be much better spent on lighting the city or further renovating Fort Ozama or further beautifying the Zona Colonial....

Regards,
Keith
 

AlaninDR

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Dec 17, 2002
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Keith said;
I have always regarded as rather ugly and a huge boondoggle

I agree Keith, but perhaps if it was his final resting place I wouldn't dislike the structure that much. Kinda makes me wonder what were they thinking by designing and building something that butt ugly.
 

Tony C

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Keith R said:

I personally think the whole dispute's ridiculous, and as Chiri says, ultimately what difference will it make except perhaps to a few historians? I doubt that many people would make a special journey anywhere just to see Columbus' bones.

Regards,
Keith

Funny but the first time I went to Santo Domingo, back in 76, all I wanted to do was see Columbus's sarcopahgus. Back then it was in the Cathedral in the ZC.
I think that there are lost of people who would want to see the final resting place of the Most influential person of the last 1000 years.
 

Hillbilly

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A little history

There was a medieval tradition that a person might be buried in more than one place. A little money to the local bishop would produce a dispensation (easily the largest source of Church income from 1320-1520).

Columbus died in 1505, I think (and I'm not going to look it up just for this), well before the Reformation. It is public record that he wanted to be buried in Santo Domingo. What could be easier than to get a dispensation? His body was split up and some of it came here for burial. No big deal. End of story. So it could have happened.

However, as I have said somewhere here before, the existance of Columbus remains is a Dominican article of National Dogma

Years ago, 12 or 13, I'm not sure, I was in contact with Dr. Erickson from the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) and I asked him if he was interested to come and do this test to the bones here. Let me say that at that time I had great contacts among the monument and historical folks. Erickson said "Great!" He and I talked on the phone and he is a world reknown expert in this field.

Well, I went and I asked and i explained and I begged. No takers. Not even for consideration. The dogma is "Colombus is buried here." No ifs ands or buts.

The huge thing will be if they do the analysis in Spain and public pressure forces the DR gov't to do it here...and they don't match!!!. Talk about a National White Elephant My God, it will make this place the laughing stock of the Caribbean....

So I am betting that stubborn National Pride and faith in a 19th century bishop will keep the DNA testers away from here.

HB.
 
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Tony C

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ERICKXSON said:
hey guys for those of you that don't know or remember Mr. Columbus IS DEAD.

Columbus is alive an well! He lives forever in the spirit of the souls of all of us who believe in Adventure and Destiny!

I have no tolerence for those who pratice revisionist History and try to knock down one of the Greatest men who ever lived.
 

Hillbilly

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You? Intolerant? Nah!!!!

Well Tony, now they are trying to use DNA to find out if Pat Garrett really killed Billy the Kid, so a little work on old Chris might be fun.
However, here, in the DR, it is like walking on eggs....And that is why I don't think that Dominican authorities will allow them access.

Funny thing is, that those collegues of mine that have actually seen the bones, when they were last moved, swear that there are only hip and leg bones there...in other words, we got the a$$ and Seville got the head!! hehehe

HB
 
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Jon S.

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Jan 25, 2003
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Re: You? Intolerant? Nah!!!!

Hillbilly said:
...in other words, we got the a$$ and Seville got the head!! hehehe

HB

HAHAHAHA! Makes sense when you think about it.....Seville hosted the World's Fair with no incidents and we're trying to host the PanAm Games and we can't even get the damn sports sites finished yet....
 

ERICKXSON

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Columbus and his people made sure that most of the Americas Indians dissapeared destroying their dignity and their will to exist and you call him the greatest man that ever've existed?

could you explain inquiring minds wants to know?
 

chicker

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Gee, this thing didn't veer off course, did it?

"Columbus and his people made sure that most of the Americas Indians dissapeared destroying their dignity and their will to exist and you call him the greatest man that ever've existed?

could you explain inquiring minds wants to know?"


This is a discussion about bones, my man.
I think you could relocate this to the Debates Forum and have at it.
Cheers,
SLM
 

Tony C

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ERICKXSON said:
Columbus and his people made sure that most of the Americas Indians dissapeared destroying their dignity and their will to exist and you call him the greatest man that ever've existed?

could you explain inquiring minds wants to know?

Lets see:

Discoverer of the New World!
Brought Culture, Education and Medicine!
Started the Largest Empire the world has ever seen!
Single greatest economic find in History!

The Indians let their Dignity go. They lost! Get over it!

Can you name me one individual who accomplished more in the History of the world? A person who's actions have effected more people?
 

Criss Colon

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Stop viewing the behavior of people who lived 500 years ago...

..through todays "Microscope!!!We killed the American Indians,and took their land!They killed the Africans,and took their land!They killed the Natives where ever they went,and took their land!They killed the "Palestinians",and took their land! Get the picture?Colon did what no one else could,or would, do! He had "Balls"!
It is the equivalent to getting in the "Space Shuttle" with a limited supple of oxygen,food,and water,and saying,"Blast me off,lets see what is out there!" You bet wrong,you die! You want to do that? Colon did!The "Strong" will always kill the weak!Just because you don't want that to happen,doesn't mean that it is so! Cris Colon
 

ERICKXSON

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Sorry Tony but i'm not going to agree with you, Columbus made a big discovery yes he found another civilized world which little by little they rob and killed to their extinctions The incas astecaz mayas tainos caribes (arawaks) where a civilization killed by foreigners that brought distruction diceases and torture.
 

Tony C

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ERICKXSON said:
Sorry Tony but i'm not going to agree with you, Columbus made a big discovery yes he found another civilized world which little by little they rob and killed to their extinctions The incas astecaz mayas tainos caribes (arawaks) where a civilization killed by foreigners that brought distruction diceases and torture.

The Incas practiceed mass slavery!
The Aztecs praticed Human Sacrifice!
The caribes were Canninbals!
So Civilized!!!!

I say Columbus did a great service to mankind!

I ask you again! name me one person in History who was greater than Columbus.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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great perhaps, but good?

In terms of altering the course of history he is certainly among the 'greats'. His impact on world events cannot be ignored. But great is not always good, and that is what we are bickering about here.

I am still waiting for defenders of Columbus to tackle the much-maligned Spanish Inquisition, so unfairly judged by PC historians who wish to judge the past using modern standards. Columbus was just the advance party for a horrific wave of enslavement, torture and extermination, all in the name of christianising the new world. Anyone care to justify that?

Chiri
 

Criss Colon

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Thats the "PRICE" of "Progress"!!!!!

He opened up the "New World" to the "Manifest Destiny" of the European Civilizations! The "So Called" great Native Civilizations spent all their time building pyramids for their Kings,killing each other,and enjoying seeing their own people used as human sacrifices."Cool"!
Besides,Colombus and the Spanish "Conquistadors" brought lots of Catholic priests to "save" the lost souls, and allow them to go to "Heaven" when they died!That alone reserves him a seat in the "Hereafter"! Cris Colon
 

mkohn

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Jan 1, 2002
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I'll bring this up... maybe we'll vote on it.

Ever wonder where Columbus would be if it weren't for Queen Isabella?
I believe she funded the expedition. Otherwise maybe they'd all be speakin' Italian...
mk
 

Jon S.

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Jan 25, 2003
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Re: I'll bring this up... maybe we'll vote on it.

mkohn said:
Ever wonder where Columbus would be if it weren't for Queen Isabella?
I believe she funded the expedition. Otherwise maybe they'd all be speakin' Italian...
mk

Or maybe Portuguese????