Government Sleaze

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Amicus

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Public employees forced to campaign for Mej?a from DR1 Daily News.

"The List?n Diario reports that Enmanuel Esquea Guerrero, the former presidential legal advisor and a present aspirant to the PRD?s presidential candidacy ticket, said that government office employees are being obliged to participate in presidential re-election support meetings and caravans. He said that key PRD politicians are checking to see if employees attend and threatening those who do not with their dismissal. He also said that, in some public offices, deductions are being made from employees? paychecks and funneled to the PPH faction that promotes the re-election of President Hip?lito Mej?a. Esquea has been vocal with his personal opposition to President Mej?a seeking re-election, on grounds that this is against party policy."

This is legal in the DR? There is no law against an incumbent party from doing so?
 

Tony C

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Stuff like that happens in the US all the time.

My wife is a Public school teacher. Her Unions dues were used to finance the campaigns of Democratic party canidates and to support refforendums.
The school system also deducts $5 from every paycheck for the United Way. Whether she likes it or not. Of course the United Way is a Leftist, politically correct, Not-for-Profit(It stopped being a charity years ago)
Once she got tenure she resigned from the union post haste.
 

Amicus

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Tony C said:
My wife is a Public school teacher. Her Unions dues were used to finance the campaigns of Democratic party canidates and to support refforendums..

Sleaze, whether corporate or government, is everywhere. The US has its fair share. (Rarely is there a mayor of a reasonably sized town that retires penniless, having made a fortune with the local builders - if he wasn't a builder himself.) Still, could your wife keep her job without being a member of the Union? If so, it seems it was her choice.

Still, US sleaze not institutionalized, as I have come to learn is the case in the DR. Frankly, it doesn't matter where it is, it should not be acceptable. I don't particularly think that the US authorities are going to stamp out corporate sleaze, and these captains of industry have cost Americans trillions in lost market cap over the past three years. But, for sure, there are a number of them who are going to go to jail just as, some ten years ago, Miliken, Keating and others went to jail for fraud.

The point is: How do you get rid of it? And, to my knowledge, the only proper way to do it is to have
- a truly free press that lets the world know who is crooked and why,
- a legal system that is not afraid to investigate, put on trial and punish guilty offenders, and
- an executive branch unable to play "cover up" by firing the prosecutors.

This latter is the most difficult to obtain. Most western democracies have civil servant magistrates, all beholden to their authorities for their jobs. It took France decades and decades (more than half a century) to put into law the separation of powers between the judiciary and executive branches. Till then, cover up was an essential part of French political life. Ditto Italy, and other Latin cultures. (To this day, I cannot imagine a Latin politician who can bear the public admonition of a conviction. Latin-country politicos cannot disassociate their private from their public person.)

In the US, the DA is elected, making the elected official more beholden to the public than to his/her administrative hierarchy. In fact, Judges are elected as well. Not a bad idea to my mind.
 

Golo100

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Tough luck...you are in DR

The only thing that will stop presidents from using government funds and employees during political campaigns will be a losing streak demonstrating that this practice always backfires. At least it has done so in every legitimate election(not counting frauds committed by Balaguer)

Another terrible practice is saturating the city with posters, including private homes. I have never been able to understand the logic of this. Perhaps I am too civilized for DR, but I am of the opinion that people would be offended by this eyesore. I would vote against a candidate that "dirties" my neighborhood.

Notice how I have turned Nazir Atallah into my whipping boy, because he places his names everywhere. He promotes green areas and grows flowers in city lots. The only problem is he doesn't hide his name from these areas. He wants people to know he "did it". That signals a corrupt man to me. Another mini-Saddam Hussein. Beisdes I know this guy is a creep.

So forget about cleansing DR. This is a free-for-all. There is now law. The law only applies to the poor, the disadvantaged and not politically connected.

TW
 

Robert

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Amicus said:
I gather, then, that you are saying the country is lawless?

I'll let Golo answer that.

"So forget about cleansing DR. This is a free-for-all. There is no law. The law only applies to the poor, the disadvantaged and not politically connected"

When you can buy a vote with a Platano, you have problems...
 

Amicus

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Re: Tough luck...you are in DR

Golo100 said:


So forget about cleansing DR. This is a free-for-all. There is now law. The law only applies to the poor, the disadvantaged and not politically connected.

TW

OK, let's forget about it. Let the DR fester for another forty years listed as a known "corrupt country", thereby lessening FDI that might have bought economic growth and diminish the misery of poverty.

Let's forget the children of the middle-class who will find no jobs unless they kiss some politico?s left buttock, and, as for the poor, well, they are consigned simply to spend their lives as thieves because there is no alternative. (Perhaps when they "do" your house, you might have a change of heart. Baghdad will look like a picnic if these elements start pillaging Santo Domingo, the latter being MUCH richer by comparison.)

It is unwise to take for granted that the DR can careen from one scandal to another throughout its existence, and that it means nothing to the people who suffer the consequences. That it will simply continue like it is ad nauseam because it is blessed with so much sunshine.

Sooner or later, something has got to give way. It will most likely be civil order that dissolves first. But, it could also be democracy. Yours to choose ...
 
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Amicus said:

- an executive branch unable to play "cover up" by firing the prosecutors.

President Mejia has said that the Governor of the Central Bank is one of only two persons authorized to "speak for the Government" regarding economic affairs. Caramba! There is no separation of the Central Bank from even the most base day-to-day politics!

Amicus, you can expound on moral and ethical reform all you like, and infering that the Canadian and Dominican York readers of this forum should enact change, but it will not achieve anything. Dominicans themselves will not change. Not in this lifetime, and probably not without divine intervention.

I'm going to keep on praying to Santa Clara that Dominicans will see the truth more clearly, and to San Miguel that harsh justice will befall those sleazeballs that have destroyed our economy. My praying hasn't achieved much so far, but I hear that the saints work in mysterious ways.
 
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Amicus

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Originally posted by Porfio_Rubirosa
Dominicans themselves will not change. Not in this lifetime, and probably not without divine intervention.

Well, with your belief that it takes divine intervention, then what you say above is surely the case. You are condemning thusly your countrymen to mediocre lives that they seemingly deserve.

As I've said before, maybe you missed it, this forum is intellectually a waste of time. It is mental masturbation. Debating change does not bring about change. In politics someone has to summon the courage to put his/her reputation on the line and WIN ELECTIONS. That person needs help form a lot of like-minded people, which is the essence of a successful political party.

My praying hasn't achieved much so far, but I hear that the saints work in mysterious ways.

You keep praying, PF. Who knows? But, I wouldn't count on it.

I would count rather on some young person with the astuteness and credibility to do what needs to be done, who is ready to put in the blood, sweat and tears necessary, and who WILL accomplish what you think only the saints can do.

The human will to achieve is somewhat miraculous. Any successful person knows how backbreaking any real achievement can be, whether in business or politics. Anyone not in the Disneyland of DR politics knows as well that political change CAN be brought about. It takes determination, time, sweat, courage ... and money. And, THAT is the kind of "saint", or saints, that are needed - not the ones in the churches.

Frankly, I would think it is a marvelous opportunity for the right kind of person - a DR version of a Bill Clinton, or a Tony Blair, a Jimmy Carter, a Gerhard Schroeder. In "real democracies", these kinds of individuals come forward. Unfortunately, as you say, that individual probably does not live in the Dominican Republic.

If the above happens, however, I will be pleased to say it was simply that Porfio Rubirosa's prayers were answered. :) From the grave.
 

Tony C

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Amicus said:

Frankly, I would think it is a marvelous opportunity for the right kind of person - a DR version of a Bill Clinton, or a Tony Blair, a Jimmy Carter, a Gerhard Schroeder. In "real democracies", these kinds of individuals come forward. Unfortunately, as you say, that individual probably does not live in the Dominican Republic.

What? You want the Chinese to take over the DR?

If you think that Dominicans are not aware of the corruption you are mistaken. They all know quite well.
You have to be corrupt to survive! You get stopped by a cop..do you want to go through mountains of hassle and hours of loss time? No! You pay the cop his "Propina"
Are you going to wait in line all day for a license Tag? No! I can give you hundreds of examples. It all is the same thing. TO survive down there you have to be part of the problem.
What the DR needs is not a Carter or Clinton type. The last thing they need is a leader with no morals or backbone.
What the DR needs is a SOB of a right-wing, capitalist Dictator to set things straight.
Cut taxes, Throw the crooks in jail and kick out all the Haitians! Then you will see the DR start looking up!
 

Amicus

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Tony C said:

What the DR needs is a SOB of a right-wing, capitalist Dictator to set things straight.
Cut taxes, Throw the crooks in jail and kick out all the Haitians! Then you will see the DR start looking up!

And just which kind would you suggest? A Hitler, a Mussolini or a Saddam Hussein?

You have no idea of such tyranny, and what it can do. Don't play around with such silly notions. They are dangerous.

The idiocy in all this is that 8 million people let themselves be exploited by a handfull of people. It's always the same ones isn't it? They simply perpetuate a corrupt system that has always existed.

Vote the bastards out.
 

Chris

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Tony C said:
What the DR needs is a SOB of a right-wing, capitalist Dictator to set things straight.

First time I've heard someone else say this. I've always maintained that in developing economies, it is necessary especially in the beginning of the development cycle for a Benevolent Dictator to level the playing field. It's another question how to get the SOB out when the time is right, but I sure agree that a person such as this could clean house, set new values and chart a better course.
 

Amicus

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Chris said:
but I sure agree that a person such as this could clean house, set new values and chart a better course.

Then find one, vote him/her in.

I'd look for a woman - a Margaret Thatcher with the balls to stand up to men who will go beserk that the country should be run by a woman.

Probably exactly what it needs. Women have a long experience in cleaning up the mess left by men and putting a house in order. (Golda Meir, Hilary Clinton, Queen Juliana of Holland, etc., etc.)
 

Golo100

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Amicus

Regardless of the general opinion about Trujillo today, he built and left as a heritage to this country every major government institution in place today. With the exception of a department here and there, he instituted everything including the laws we are governed by today.

In fact, if you read today's DR news, you will see that hare brains like Guido Gomez Mazara don't like Trujillo's laws and want to change everything for the worst. The problem is not the laws, but its applications for the benefit of the rich, political hacks and against the poor.

40+ years have passed since Trujillo left us and instead of progressing as a nation, we have gone backwards by the same multiple factor of years. While our superficial skin shows progress, our inner structure is rotten to the bone. I don't see a change until perhaps about the year 2100.

And even the superficial infrastructure today, when you compare what DR was 40 years ago is not that much of a difference, considering that if Trujillo had stayed in power, the physical look of the country could have been better than today. I have posted before about the Trujillo Era infrastructure, which include the Duarte Highway, the National Palace, The Bellas Artes Palace, the Santiago Monument, all the major highways and bridges, and even Hotel Jaragua, Hamaca, Matun and the Malecon. These are the greatest public and private projects we still have today. He built dams, the port of Haina, every major military installation today and built the armed forces, the present palace of justice, Gazcue, Naco, the Embajador Hotel, La Feria. He protected our forests and rivers. Can you imagine what he would have done today?

But the real problem lies in EDUCATION. The number of tigueres, chopos, and just simply "salvajes" has increased by almost a thousand per cent. We live in a lawless society where the rich does whatever it wants and the tigueres have taken over the streets. Thieves, motoconchistas, concho drivers, labor syndicates have deteriorated our society. Our language is a mess. Dominicans cannot longer communicate like they used to 40 years ago. People communicate like savages. Even out top military brass cannot speak well. Just listen to the 3 chiefs of our navy the last five years, the present 2 star general in charge of civil defense, and you can see what the problem is. These guys never pronounce an "s" when they speak and their tone of voice is highly "campesino". They talk like south american indians. Hippo himself is a damn hick who still wears cowboy hats and chacabanas to official events. The lady in charge of our Chamber of Deputies looks and speaks like a chopa and screams like a "vendutera". Our Senate is all chopo. With the exception of a few, like Tomas Perez and Bisono, they are all mulatto chopos and behave as such.

So our future looks gloomy as a democracy unless we keep speaking up and try to clean this mess up. Keep trying my man.

TW
 

Amicus

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Re: Amicus

Golo100 said:
The problem is not the laws, but its applications for the benefit of the rich, political hacks and against the poor.


Thata boy! Spot on. The problem is not so much the laws, but thier execution.

It is institutions that "execute" laws, principally the judicial body, but also the executive body (whatever law officer exists equivalent to the "Attorney General"). If these institutions don't have thier act together then what exists is the abeyance of law, that is its "suspension".

Any political party promising the active and determined "execution of the law" (with all its amenities, that is, fair trials, etc., etc.) would have a strong message to convey. (Presuming this sort of political leadership by an admirably courageous personage could be found. But, of course, he/she cannot be found, because they don't exist in t he DR - as we all agree ...)

... I don't see a change until perhaps about the year 2100.

That soon?

If people like you wait for the problem to be solved in a forum like this one, I'd say 2200 - at the earliest!!!


But the real problem lies in EDUCATION. The number of tigueres, chopos, and just simply "salvajes" has increased by almost a thousand per cent. We live in a lawless society where the rich does whatever it wants and the tigueres have taken over the streets.

Bitch and moan, bitch and moan, bitch and moan ... it amounts to nothing but a pathetic expression of frustration. (And, I am not blaming you for it ....)

You are a smart man Golo. Use your talents where they will WORK. Get like minded people together in an Association for Better Government (or whatever you want to call it in Spanish).

A cheap way to start is to open up a forum in Spanish and discuss this same issue, Good Government. Try "puentemundial.com", which is a web-site forum completely dedicated to Spanish posters - AND IT IS FREE! Open your own thread. Invite your countrymen to the forum (using adverts in local newspapers.)

Light a candle. Show the way, Golo.

So our future looks gloomy as a democracy unless we keep speaking up and try to clean this mess up. Keep trying my man.

Yes, right again.

The situation is hopless ... until someone gets pissed off enough to (try) to do something about it.

But what? Any suggestions?

Just as a exercise in "creative thinking", what could be done to change the political scene via the ballot box.??
 

Tony C

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Amicus said:
And just which kind would you suggest? A Hitler, a Mussolini or a Saddam Hussein?

You have no idea of such tyranny, and what it can do. Don't play around with such silly notions. They are dangerous.

Lets get one thing straight now!!!!

All of the 3 men named by you were SOCIALIASTS!!!! Ok?
I said Capitalists. The DR needs a Capitalist Dictator Like a Pinochet from Chile or a Stroessner of Paraguay!
 

Amicus

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Tony C said:


All of the 3 men named by you were SOCIALIASTS!!!! Ok?
I said Capitalists. The DR needs a Capitalist Dictator Like a Pinochet from Chile or a Stroessner of Paraguay!

Rubbish. Nothing of the sort. The DR needs a dictator about as much as the state of Maine needs trees.

Dictators went out of style with Pinochet. Haven't you heard? In fact, regardless of Trujillo's aforesaid accomplishments, he did not leave the Dominicans with the one skill they needed most: How to govern themselves. Everytime someone is elected to the Presidency there, they think the country is their own private sandbox.

(Of course, after a prepatory course in nation building over in the Middle East, maybe Bremer will be available? Hell, if he can teach responsible government to the Iraqis, the DR would be a cakewalk for him.)
 
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Chirimoya

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Amicus said:
In fact, regardless of the Trujillo's aforesaid accomplishments, he did not leave the Dominicans with the one skill they need most - How to govern themselves. Everytime someone is elected to the Presidency there, they think ithe country is their own private sandbox.

Bravo Amicus. That sums it up. I salute your wisdom and insight.

Chiri
 

Amicus

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Thank you, Chirimoya. If I were only a magician ... I would rewrite history.
 
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