IMF Press Release

Just read what Carstens said, and I think I'm going to be sick! :cross-eye
Then I'm going to get mad! I can't believe that the IMF is this stupid!

I know what you're thinking: The IMF is smoking Hippo's pot. Well, they're not. They know that the country has suffered systemic failure due to overspending and corruption. They know that the US$600+ Million will disappear. They know that they're bailing out the equivalent of a heroin addict. They know that this is the beginning of an endless series of bailouts and defaults. They know that the "conditions" placed on the DR government in exchange for the money (increased taxes, less government spending) will actually hurt the poor. They know that there is NO "safetynet".

So why do they do it? Welcome to the wonderful world of international banks and funds. Trust me, the interlocking directorates of these entities have already come out ahead. The loans being "bailed out" come from Citibank, Deutchebank, CreditSuisse, etc, as well as funds like the Interamericans Development Bank and are under exhorbitant terms. Of course these banks knew the money would be stolen, after all, they lent it with no strings attached (except for the loans from the funds, which include a requirement that the money be spent on buying overpriced things from vendors tied to politicians in the lending country). But the banks and funds don't care because they know the IMF will come in and bleed the country dry to make sure they get paid. How do they know? The banks and funds have the same directors!

The G7 countries reap the rewards of this type of exploitation. The Dominican wealthy and powerfull will get their share of the "bailout" too (which wouldn't be so bad, except that they'll move that money to Miami and Switzerland), and the poor will get poorer.

I know I sound like some kind of commie, but I'm not. I hate this cycle of exploitation. This is not capitalism - it has nothing to do with trade or finance. It's criminal syndicalism.

The DR should be allowed to default. Citibank, Deutchebank and CreditSuisse should suffer. The country should go bankrupt. There is no other way to end this bullshit.

Porfio, Excellent analysis on the IMF. Maybe we should start a petition to send to both the IMF and to other worldwide government and commercial bodies. I have already started my own e-mail campaign....little result so far.

IMF, Worlb Bank, Eximbanks....et al....they don't give a rats ass about the Dominican people. They are loan sharks. You are better off doing busines with the Mafia...or laundering drug money....at least then the little people get a cut.

To All: start sending nasty letters to the IMF and to your govt representatives.

Banks exist for one reason and one reason only!

TO MAKE MONEY!!!!

So what is the problem? Nobody is forcing the DR to accept any offer from the IMF. Yes the money will be stolen but who's fault is that? The Stupid chopos who voted for the PRD!

CAPITALISM!! Check it out. It works!

IMF

I have already emailed the IMF about their support for this p.g! The word capitalism is bandied about but with capitalism comes moral and ethical responsibilities that are not being met. "When greed outweighs need = rape."

Tony C said:

Banks exist for one reason and one reason only!

TO MAKE MONEY!!!!

So what is the problem? Nobody is forcing the DR to accept any offer from the IMF. Yes the money will be stolen but who's fault is that? The Stupid chopos who voted for the PRD!

CAPITALISM!! Check it out. It works!

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Ah, Tony, I was hoping for a change that you'd put a little more thought into your posting - that you would somehow apply principles to facts and create a supported conclusion. I said "hoping", not "expecting". You should just store what you posted on your computer and hit the "paste" key for every thread. It seems to be your pat, "there's no reason to analyze anything", answer to everything. Let me guess, a big Reagan supporter, were you?

For one, this is not capitalism. Capitalism assumes that contracts are bona fide (meaning legitimate) and completed at arms length among parties of similar capabilities. Capitalism also assumes that, to be valid, transaction will have reasonable "consideration", which means that something of value is received for something of value. All of these principles have existed under the common law for centuries. So before you say this "is" just capitalism at work, learn what capitalism is.

These loans and bailouts are not "bona fide" or "arms length" because both the lenders and the recepients have illicit intents. The lenders are engaged in a conspiracy. They lend money to countries that are corrupt and not credit worthy at unconcienable rates but, really, with little risk. Big brother, the G7 nations and the IMF/WorldBank, will make sure the banks get their profits. This always means that the poor and middle class of the recipient country will suffer in the bailout.

The recipients (the political class) also purport to be acting in trust to the Dominican people. But this is a sham. They have every intent on stealing the money. Accordingly, the beneficiaries - the Dominican people - never receive the benefit of their bargain - almost none of it! Accordingly, since the Dominican people, and not the political class, are responsible for the loans, there has been no consideration.

Chopos? Hah! Is Hippo a chopo? Baez Figueroa? Renta? Blanco? Cross? Malkum? Gee, last time I checked these were the "finest", "whitest" Dominican families. Your standard PRD chopos get the crums, if anything!

Tony, according to your logic, it would just be "capitalism" and "a good thing" were Citibank allowed to lend US$100,000 to your thirteen-year-old son, who proceeded to buy a big screen TV, Ferrari, and Ninja motorcyle, making you responsible to pay back the loan a year later at 25% interest compounded twice monthly. Absurd, you say. Only because there are LAWS to restrict exploitation in financial transactions, I say. And there ought to be laws stopping international banks from lending to banana republics without strings attached and real credit evaluations and without a dedicated source of repayment funds.

For one, this is not capitalism. Capitalism assumes that contracts are bona fide (meaning legitimate) and completed at arms length among parties of similar capabilities. Capitalism also assumes that, to be valid, transaction will have reasonable "consideration", which means that something of value is received for something of value. All of these principles have existed under the common law for centuries. So before you say this "is" just capitalism at work, learn what capitalism is.


When I was in college I realized fairly quickly to not not spend too much time studying in the Economics classes I took. Just memorize what the prof wants and not waste time. A nobel prize winner in economics recieved his prize because he couldn't hack it in the real business world.

Let me give you the only business lesson you will ever need.
I call it CAPITALISM 101.

Lesson 1: Buy Low. Sell High!
Lesson 2: Buyer Beware!

Thats it. You can piss and moan to your bleeding heart liberal hearts conetent but it don't mean diddly!

The IMF is doing business with the legitimate representatives of the Dominican people. As it is a business transaction they are intitled to impose restrictions and penalties as they see fit. Not as you see fit. They are under no obligation to conform to your Morality.

Tony, according to your logic, it would just be "capitalism" and "a good thing" were Citibank allowed to lend US$100,000 to your thirteen-year-old son, who proceeded to buy a big screen TV, Ferrari, and Ninja motorcyle, making you responsible to pay back the loan a year later at 25% interest compounded twice monthly.

First off no kid of mine would be that stupid.
2nd. If Citibank was stupid enough to give a loan to a 13 year old minor it was their stupid mistake. See Capitalism 101 lesson 2!

And there ought to be laws stopping international banks from lending to banana republics without strings attached and real credit evaluations and without a dedicated source of repayment funds.

Why don't we make illeagal all forms of stupidity in business? If one restaurant charges $5 for a chicken and the other charges $6 they should call out the swat team.
Face the facts! All of the economic problems facing the DR today has been brought on by themselves. Stop blaming others.

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Tony C said:

All of the economic problems facing the DR today has been brought on by themselves. Stop blaming others.

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I guess if the IMF loan is approved, the blame game will continue. Now we can blame the 'crippling load of debt repayments' that the IMF has placed on us.

This is a game. It has nothing to do with stars in anyone's eyes and the exact meaning of the word capitalism. It has to do with people placing themselves in a vulnerable position by bad management, overspending, and corruption and then shopping for a loan to bail them out. The IMF is happy to swoop in to gather all they can gather under the guise of "assistance" for whatever reason. I really like Porfio's words "criminal syndicalism". Excepting, under the rules of capitalism, this somehow is allowed.

To answer a previous question about Argentina, sometimes things are just too bad even for the loan sharks. The risk is just too high - the loan sharks are masters at managing their risk and quite clearly, there was not much left to gain in Argentina, or a group of influential people to create a loan with. So, no bail-out. They only "bail-out" countries where there is something to be gained. Bail-out is such a wrong description for what happens. Loan-sharking is much better.

This loan is not a good thing despite the flowery words of the press release. It is designed to make money for someone - and that someone is not the ordinary Dominican or the Dominican economy.

This "Its Capitalism, Stupid" argument is getting old and im tiring of it. TonyC....you have not described capitalims. If that is what you understand of it....then consider it your problem. Capitalism DOES NOT work in an environement like the DR....at lease not now.

You, however, are correct when you say that the main problem in DR is....we have met the enemy and the enemy is ...us. The problem in the DR is the DR. Don't blame the immoral and unethical ambulance chasers like the IMF, IADB, World Bank. They are note forcing us to take these loans. We take these loans for the reasons we all know too well....50% of the Dominicans in the DR are stupid, the other 50% are ignorant and the other 90% (Yogi Berraism) are just plain more evil than the IMF and the rest of those thugs.

Why are most of the PRD power palyers white? WHy do you guys just vote in the white guys?

I started my "get back to the homeland" sojourn about 2 years ago...following DR1 and the newspapers...and I must say that I am irrevocably DISGUSTED with what I have seen. The goons. The morons. The uneducated thieves. That is what I have seen. Pathetic and shameful.

Bailout?

Chris is 100% correct!
This loan or bailout will not help the general population. They will pay with increased unemployment, higher taxes, and decreased entitlements abd services.

This will probably not help the $/Peso ratio, at least not in the near term. The IMF is a unregulated bunch of loan sharks.
Who then will it help? It will help the people who created this mess in the first place. Their debts will be paid.

I was in Argentina a few weeks ago. It's a sad mess for most people there. The Ricoleta crowd (upper crust) got their money out before the crash. Their interest (in Eu or $) gets more and more Pesos as the currency slides. They don't give a shit. I saw superstar chicas in line for telemarketing phone jobs that pay less than 100 Pesos/wk. A decent apartment rents for more than that. Yes, except for the Tango, Argentina is a mess.

I hope the DR doesn't suffer the same fate. I still want to live there soon.

DR IMF Bailout vis-a-vis Argentina

A few more observations:
Argentina has not received much in the line of direct aid, despite the substantial Peso crash.
They have in place a gradual (and I mean gradual) program to phase-in the pain.
Jobs are real scarce and real unemployment is astronomical. They don't even attempt to keep accurate figures anymore.
Even the formerly upscale are beginning to feel the pain. Those that have jobs are "happy campers" despite the fact that they are "just" surviving.
At night, people are routing through trash to extract paper and metal to recycle...it's pittiful. Former $70KUS condos are going for $10KUS (real nice ones, too).
The end result, however, will be a stronger, more aware citizenry. I don't think it will happen again.
The DR is struggling with the same problems, but I hope they don't get a false sense of security with this IMF thing. The IMF will get their $ back, with interest, one way or another.
To me it would be better to really punish the culprits (maybe even capital punishment) and suffer through the rebuilding process without the IMF. That way the citizenry will become more cognizant and aware, and perhaps preclude the need to go through another devaluation.

Tony C said:

Face the facts! All of the economic problems facing the DR today has been brought on by themselves. Stop blaming others.

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Agreed. But you must add "and brought on by the significantly more hipocritical international banks, development funds and investment houses from the industrialized world who, in violation of any ethical standard, have created the feeding frenzy of loans and bonds in a manner that would no doubt be illegal or quickly made illegal if done in their own countries".

The difference, Tony, is that Dominican politicians barely make an effort at pretending to be anything other than corrupt and self-serving, while the IMF and World Bank, as you can see from their press release, hold themselves up on a pedastal as being the savior of poor countries.

Here is an article about the situation in Argentina, and I think the same thing will end up being true right here in the DR, given some time:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15438-2003Aug2.html


Some more Bonds, anyone???

Most of the PRD power players are not White!!!

They are the party of Pena Gomez lets not forget! Corruption and Thievery are both,"Equal Opportunity Employers! No need to play any "Race Cards" here! Criminality knows no "Color Line"!Cris Colon:bandit:

Porfio_Rubirosa said:

Chopos? Hah! Is Hippo a chopo? Baez Figueroa? Renta? Blanco? Cross? Malkum? Gee, last time I checked these were the "finest", "whitest" Dominican families. Your standard PRD chopos get the crums, if anything!

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Just wondering...what standards do you use to make this point, because last time I checked, these "families" are anything but the finest. The words Nuveau Riche best describe them, and in this country, its the riche that counts. Jst as anywhere else now a days it seems.
Anyhoo, I must agree, that regardless of the socio-political impact these so called grants or bailouts might have, such as the momentary slowdown of climbing exchange rate and cooling the inflationary process of the economy, they'll only work in the very, very short term and then, everything will go kaput.......by then, I suspect that Hipolitoe will have been re-elected which is his primordial agenda at the time.