Sending Dominican Troops to Iraq . . . . . . . .

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ltsnyder

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Recent news states that Dominicans are now being deployed to Iraq. I can't see how we as Dominicans can ignore we are now a part of this conflict in however a small way. The conflict has recently demonstrated that innocent third parties can easily become casualties in this war. I pray that does not happen, but I feel it is important to start to debate if the decision to send troops was the right one, why was it done, and if something bad happens (god fobid) how should the Dominican Republic react.

This kind of debate has been ongoing in the US, since I find the President of the US as the greatest orator for the pros as to why the US should be there. Iv'e included a link to a group called "Bring Them Home Now" that is the closest I think I can get to the Cons side of the US debate on this issue. Please watch it for at least a minute. It even has a spanish section that I have included.

"Bring Them Home Now" Press Conference (08/13/2003)

Full Conference can be found at the following link

"Bring Them Home Now" Press Conference (08/13/2003)

Now I know a common statement could be that this has nothing to do with the Dominican Republic, but with Dominican lives soon to be on the line, I think it would be criminal (ok, not criminal, but it would show a level of disrespect for the men being deployed) for them to know that their situation is not worthy of discussion in the DR. I know my thoughts are wandering, but in searching in my mind for way to express how strongly I feel this issue should be discussed in the DR, my mind comes back to the begining of the AIDS crisis, where when the gay community, specifically ACT-UP was seeking a way to get out the word quickly on this terrible disease they came up with the expression "Silence = Death" to encourage discussion. Again my mind wanders, but I think those who say this discussion does not pertain to the Dominican Republic also say that if they die, they would have died for nothing Dominican . . . . . or maybe just nothing period. These people deserve a thread to honor thier fight for world peace.

I also know this is clearly an issue of debate, if the US is any indication. I'll try to stay out of the debate, since I know X will eventually start to make Orwellian threats aginst me.


-Lee

PS: I also found it interesting that a recent news article quoted in DR1 had the troops being described as being almost entirely black or mullato.

PPS: I guess since I know the strong opinions that every one has on issues on this board, I should also ask each of you when you post, is you wife/husband in agreement with your opinion, and did you let them see the vid link I included?
 
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According to DR1, it is the Spanish media that refers to the Dominicans as all "black or mulatto" and also refers to their intent to play merengue and eat goat stew. If I were a Dominican special forces soldier, I would find that condescending (even if true).

If any Dominican dies in Iraq, el Dios prohibe, the following should be on the tombstone: "Coalition of the coerced. He died so Hippo could buy reelection with an IMF and IADB loan."

The video links you provide relate to the question of whether Americans belong in Iraq. Let's not go there - it's not a permissible topic.

Dominicans should not be there! The reasons are all wrong.
 
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Tony C

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Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Dominican Military made up of volunteers?

F.Y.I. The military of most nations exist as an arm of foriegn policy. Join the military and you are at the whims of the politicians.

The only Dominican who will get killed in Iraq will be the one that is found in bed with a Iraqi's wife.
 
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You never know, Troop Quisqueya might be called on to bail the US out. Wasn't it Malaysian APCs that eventually rescued the illfated "Blackhawk Down" Somalia group?
 

Texas Bill

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Sending Dominican Troops to Iraq

All of you!

I don't think this a topic to be flippant about!

While I don't support Hippo in the least, I must applaud his action as one of joining with the world in support of the international rebuilding effort in Iraq.

Whether or not the "Coalition" was fully justified in entering into Iraq is not at issue. It was done, and that is a finality. What that country's needs are at present is support in rebuilding the country's infrastructure, eliminating the terrorist/guerrila activities presently being carried out against the "Coallition" and UN troops, and generally stabilizing the country as a whole.

Whatever role the Dominican contingent fulfills, it will be appreciated and hopefully there will be no casualties. But, that is something any soldier must face when wearing a uniform.

I'm convinced Hippo offered the troops for political reasons. But, then the conflict took place for political reasons.

Texas Bill
 

ltsnyder

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Situation looks worse and worse

I hope the Dominican troops are in a safe area, from what I can tell it seems questionable. News states they 300 of them went in to replace 200 US troops.

-Lee
 

Criss Colon

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The Cost Of Freedom Is Not Free!!!!!!!!

You should be asking how you can send "Care Packages" to the Dominican Troops in Iraq!I bet they would like a "Malta Morena" right about now!!!!

cc
 

XanaduRanch

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It continually amazes me that conservatives are universally considered racists and liberals are considered in their own words tolerant in such matters when practically nothing of importance that ever comes out of a liberals mouth can avoid bringing race up square front and center every time.

Lee, what in the world does the color of the Dominican soldiers' skin have to do with anything? And why in the world is it important for you to think you have to bring it up?

Second, Lee, How many Dominicans died in the attacks on the World Trade Center? Do you even know? This is too small a planet for anyone or any country anymore to stick their head in the sand or up some other part of their anatomy and pretend the problem will just pass them by if they ignore it.

By all means debate the issues about how best to attack the problem. But I think that really can be done with having to discuss whther the military contingents percentage wise match the populations of the countries sending them and all that BS. It's not an issue and if you followed the principles you think you espouse instead of parroting talking points you'd be embarassed for even having mentioned that.

Shame on you!
 

Texas Bill

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Sending Dominican Troops to Iraq

:confused: :bandit:
XR, don't you know that "liberals" will take every opportunity to espouse their time-worn slogsnisms in whatever forum presents itself?
They all have a one-track brain that has been "washed" with the detergents of obsolescent vervage. I have not seen one original idea (liberal or neo-liberal) come out of their mouths in eons. I'm begining to think they have gone back to their beginings.
As to the Dominican contingent which is currently in Iraq, I am of the opinion that they, like the others there, have been given a role equal to their capabilities and that they, since they are in the world spotlight, will do the best job they know how to do.

Texas Bill
 

samiam

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Along the lines of what Texas Bill is sayin, I want to add something. I have a friend who is in Iraq, Capt. Horacio Veras. He is a young man (25-27). He went to Kosovo and gained alot of experience in the Balkans colaborating with other international forces there. According to his testimonial there where times when things where pretty rough and scary but he was always very happy to go and help out. He volunteered to go to Iraq, full of optimism and eagerness to participate.

Why is it that Dominicans always want to help out. Reminds me of the time I hit a horse at night....well thats another story.

When I asked my friend if he was nuts in going there, if he didnt believe he pushed his luck far enough once, he said he felt well trained and well prepared and was going to be together with people from other countries with similar experiences to his. That they would not be alone in some outpost in the desert

(....with a horse with no name).

I understand, these kids are military, trained for things as such. And I dont mean military like that fat prick PepeGoico. He should be sent to Iraq!!!!Then he'd probably piss some nut off and get an RPG stuck up his arse.
Anyhoo, I guess all I am trying to say is that thats their job and they feel its their duty and volunteered to do it. They are not draftees sayin Hell no we wont go! in front of El Palacio Nacional. Although I would if asked to go. Nothing personal, I'd just miss my presidente and my Mangu too much. Then again, I am not a military man like them.
 

Chris

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should anybody but the Iraki's be there?

Texas Bill said:
..... What that country's needs are at present is support in rebuilding the country's infrastructure, eliminating the terrorist/guerrila activities presently being carried out against the "Coallition" and UN troops, and generally stabilizing the country as a whole.....
some stuff cut out ][/QUOTE]I'm convinced Hippo offered the troops for political reasons. But, then the conflict took place for political reasons.[/QUOTE]

Texas Bill, XR and others -- I have respect for your opinions, for what you say and to boot, I really like you both. But, I question what you're talking about here. Tell me, do you know terrorist warfare? Do you know guerilla activities? How often have you visited the country in question? Think on these things. How much experience does the DR soldiers have in these things. Some 'peacekeeping' in Kosovo? I want to stay out of debating US policies, I'd rather debate human nature. But the question for the US is the same. How much experience? and How successful have they been? - in real terms, i.e., Where is the Peace?. I know these answers - and so do you - I don't have to spell it out.

Guerilla warfare and terrorism has been with us for a long long time. Does the date 1972 ring a bell for you - Yeah! I'm sure it does - the Munich Olympics. Does the date 1948 ring a bell for you? - the establishment of Israel. These are dates long in the past and still we have terrorism and guerilla warfare with us. In fact, I can think of long before these two dates, where we had warfare amongst us.

I grew up in a place of low-level and escalating guerilla warfare and terrorism, firstly rural and then escalating to urban. The guerillas and terrorists of my youth, are now the rulers of my country of birth. And you know, I helped put them there, because they had rights of self-determination. You would know the quote from Jefferson, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These South African folks are screwing up, but, nevertheless these are their rights - they even have the right to screw up. The only thing that stopped my country of birth bursting into flames and all-out warfare, was the fact that the parties negotiated - In fact, all the US "Advisors", and UN "Advisors" and a slew of know-it-all snotty-nosed 'advisors' from all over, were asked to leave - in fact, I think they were asked to F-Off!. The parties sat down and negotiated for two years. There was a lot of give and a little take on both sides. Now, there is peace. This is the only true miracle I've seen in my lifetime...

So, let's talk a little about supporting the effort in Irak in any way whatsoever. The saying goes that two wrongs don't make a right. Hippo is putting the soldiers there for political reasons. Whether they do good, or whether they do bad is not at issue. At issue is whether two wrongs make a right? Quoted above in TexasBill's words -- Hippo is sending the soldiers for political reasons and the conflict took (is taking) place for political reasons. In good conscience, I cannot support this. "Framing' it differently, i.e., "the boys need this, they will do good" does not change the fact that the basis is wrong.

So, now you're going to accuse me of being a liberal or some other animal or even something worse like a stupid liberal with no new thoughts in my head and no thinking facilities whatsoever. I have no clue what I am in American terms. The closest we could come, is that I score tops in the test for Libertarian beliefs. But this all does not matter. What matters, is that we, us, humankind, have figured out no other way to handle ourselves in conflict, but through mayhem, war, murder, and killing the other fellow before he kills you.

So finally, are we focussing on the right things?. Irak is a fact. It has happened. What are we doing to find different solutions to ensure that there is *not* the necessity for Irak, or Kosovo, or Vietnam, or the 2nd world war, or a looming danger with North Korea, or any number of other conflicts, to happen again? I think this will be a most worthwhile pursuit. We made the weapons, surely we can unmake them? (liberal thinking I'll grant you that) and give 'peacekeeping' or 'liberating Irak' some real meaning? 'Cause at the moment, we're lying to ourselves if we think we're doing any good. I guess I don't like any of it.
 

XanaduRanch

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Chris, FYI, I made no grand statement of preferences on the fight against terrorism here in this thread. I object vehemently to someone injecting skin color into a simple question of why the DR has sent troops to Iraq. That's simply liberal kookiness at its most obvious.

I have told you and will state for the record here that I don't care who kills theses bastards. Whether it's Americans with smart bombs or a Dominican troop using lethal bachata blasted from DR humvees with 12 foot speakers on the back like they use in Sosua. I want them dead. Not PC? Too bad. Anyone who thinks its in anyway justified to strap bombs with embedded nails on yourself or coerce, encourage or pay someone else to do it to go into Pizza Huts and kill families, and babies, and children ought to be treated just like the guys doing it. As in strapped to the wings of airplanes alive and flown into building we want to demolish for urban renewal.

I understand that the nuances of this position will be lost on those who continually post here and don't think that anyone even has the right to defend their own home, family, and property from invaders. Too bad. I do not wish to rely on anyone other than myself for these protections. Living here I would be dead and foolish if I did. But since I can not go to Afghanistan, or Munich, or Tel Aviv and shoot the buggars dead myself I will gladly cheer when anyone else does it for me and rid's the planet's gene pool of this scum.

Every second one of them spends looking over his shoulder for a stinger aimed at his SUV is one more day I don't have to worry about running out to cover the swimming pool here in the DR with a tarp to keep the radioactive ashes of Miami, or London, or Seoul from contaminating the water and making my children sick.

As to the Dominican contingent, are they an army or just little play soldiers? If they want training it sure as hell gets them there faster than beating up on priests in Santo Domingo, or shooting taxi drivers in Puerto Plata. They should be there too knowing that that future radioactive or biological cloud drifting over the DR could make milk, rice, and chicken prices rise even faster than His Baldness. But, if not, at least maybe they're taking some baby steps to accepting responsibility for the world and saying we're not going to live in that future damn it!
 

Chris

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stealing!

I'd rather go in with a bunch of clever thieves, steal all their enriched uranium, quickly run away and destroy it - and the next morning stand on the other side of the border and shout NAA NAA NAA BOO BOO!
 

XanaduRanch

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I'll Applaud That, Too. But Kill the SOB's Anyway.

Chris said:
I'd rather go in with a bunch of clever thieves, steal all their enriched uranium, quickly run away and destroy it - and the next morning stand on the other side of the border and shout NAA NAA NAA BOO BOO!
So, you're signing up to go with the Dominican soldiers, and replacing half of them with El Buro and PPH cronies? Good for you! Just tell 'em there's a bunch of cedulas, and some new IMF loan apps at the bottom of the U235 packing crates.
 

Texas Bill

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Sending Dominican Troops to Iraq.......

Many of you will agree and many of you will disagree with what I'm about to say, but that's the way the pizza plops.

The way I see it is this;

There are people in this world that are driven to force others to do their bidding whether those others wish to or not. That is the root of the worlds problems. Whether that (those) person(s) are Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Che, Mao Tsi Tung, Castro, Stalin, or the Father's of the American Revolution.

All these persons extend an ideological platform upon which to base their attempt at controlling the populace. Sometimes they are successful, and sometimes not.

The history of the DR is rampant with such.

In support of these ideologies, men and women take up arms to force that ideology on others. When such begins in a low key, or continues in a low key after major defeat, it is called guerilla warfare. Sometimes a peace can be negotiated, sometimes not. It depends on how exhausted the opposer are.

Racial characteristics play a large part in all of these conflicts.

In the case of Iraq, it is the extreme nationalism (that ingrediant in man's character that forces him to unequivocally support a given geographical area or ideological discipline) of the Iraqi (thus Arab/Semetic ) people that is creating the situation there. Elsewhere; Afganistan, Kosova, Kurdish, etc. the similarities are the same.

The drive for leadership (control of the populace) in these areas is founded in the same elements.

The key word in all is POWER! The power to control and make others into a reflecton of yourself ideologically.

Many recognize that and fight against it.
That doesn't make the fighting acceptable to some, but to others, it is a
necessity to do so.

Citing examples of this propensity of man against man would exhaust volumes and we would still be back to the same arguments we have today.

History teaches us these lessons, but we don't seem capable of learning them. Perhaps we've forgotten to read between the dates so laborously memorised and don't remember the events these dates represent. It seems that man is forever to repeat the same mistakes of the past.

Texas Bill
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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I'm Amazed!

We've managed to get this far without bashing one another to pieces - We're actually discussing this thing quite reasonably, gving our own personal perspectives - and no 'nationalistic fervor'! A new and good experience for me on the DR1 Board! Must be we're growing up ;)

But Texas Bill, your pizza plopping had me so depressed this morning that I had to squeeze the coffee pot dry to become human! I'm going to look for another set of 'humanity' to join! One that learns from its mistakes! :glasses:
 
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