3 financial ways to live in the DR

Escott

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I got this idea while commenting in another thread and thought it would make good conversation here. Here are my observations.

There are 3 ways to live a life in the DR. One is as a poor person, another is middle class and the third is upper class.

As a poor person you can always eat although it would be rice and beans and not be hungry. I don't think people choose to live this way but those that have to can make it.

As a wealthy person you can live a much better life here than you can in the US with the same disposable income. There are a lot of things such as Domestic help, entertainment, weekend getaways and the like that is far less expensive than when I compare it to the states. A long weekend in the US can cost me 500-1000 dollars with out being lavish. In the DR is is between 150-400 dollars being more lavish. Live in maid is 100 dollars US a month or less. You spend more than that a week in the states. Gardener is basically the same along with a guard or a driver. Housing is half the price, cars and imported stuff is more expensive.

As a working middle class person in the DR it really sucks. Difficult to get along unless you have your own sucessful business which is not an easy proposition according to my experience talking with people in the DR and getting to know a few businesses from the inside. Even the guys that "think" they are sharp and possibly are sharp in the US suffer in business in the DR without a "hook" or something that sets them apart from the others. Business is very difficult partly due to the Government chicanery, bribes, propinas, culture and just plain people looking separate you from your money and make it theirs. The actual biggest reason people fail in the DR is because they do NOT understand the culture which is far different from anywhere I have been. Nothing there is straight up and down. Crooked all the way.

The Dominican people while friendly are just different from people you meet in the US. You really need to get a understanding about them which is very difficult unless you invest the time. You have to separate the good from the bad just like anywhere else except in government where they are all bad and you catch no breaks.

Any thoughts or comments on mine based your experiences? Please if you have nothing to add stay out of this thread and fluff up some other one.
 

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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I agree with all of this, and can add some additions:

1. Something I wish I'd known 2 years ago: it makes SUCH a difference to have someone to handle all your day to day stuff. eg, paying bills, picking up things from the supermarket, setting up appointments with lawyers, getting things fixed in your house, etc. For a business this may be a secretary, but just for a family its an incredible hassle & time saver. Effectively you can end up with someone that protects you from 90% of the difficult stuff here. This can cost RD $4000/month or less for someone part time or full time. For US $120/month, thats a no brainer.

2. Not all government employees are bad. I have worked with some great ones - but it comes down to the relationships.

3. If you have a really good relationship with your local exchange house, they will even CALL you when the exchange rate is going in your favor. Today I got 34.7:1 for that reason.
 

quaqualita

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Feb 4, 2002
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Escott said:

As a working middle class person in the DR it really sucks.

I wouldn't say that.
I agree, it's sometimes not easy to be a middle class person here. But, there are possibilities to have a good life here, even when you are not very wealthy.
Problem is, that lots of "middle class" people coming here were not sucessfull with their life and specially in their jobs back home. Most of this people also won't make it here.

But, if you are intelligent, open minded, positive, willing to learn and accept a new culture, a new life style, have your goals and work hard on them to archive them, then you can have a very good life in the DR, even without having lots of cash in your account.

I live since 10 years at the Northcoast, and within all this years I have been only 2 weeks without a job. I came here with 300US in my pocket and started to work in 7000 Pesos/month jobs. It's not easy, but within the first years I learnt how to enjoy life with having less - beeing poorer, but happier than back home. I also learnt to accept 'how things are' here, and not letting them drive me nuts.

Over the years I got better paid jobs, and life has gotten a little bit easier with that, but I'm still far away from beeing considered as rich. I can't afford a nice new car, and I can't travel as much I would like to or buy expensive luxury items. But this is a price I gladly pay for living on a tropical island, surrounded by nice and friendly people, all year long.

quaqualita
 

Rocky

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Middle class

There certainly are a lot of stumbling blocks to overcome, trying to operate a small business in the DR. If you don't adapt quickly to "the ways of the country", you could find yourself heading back to where you came from with your tail between your legs.
Unfortunately, it took me a long time to learn that I could not apply my "modern world" ways and habits, to this country.
The faster you understand the people and the way they do business, the easier it will be.
Now that I finally understand what they mean when they say "When in Rome, do like the Romans", life is a lot easier and I am happier than I ever was living in the Great White North.
There is a price to pay to live in paradise.
If y'all would like a report on upper class living here, send me all the money you can spare and I'll prepare you a wonderful report in no time at all.
Marco.
 

Escott

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Thanks for the post but what range of income would you consider Middle Class? Can you give some info regarding this and what industries you would be able to make this money in?

I have a friend who speaks 7-8 languages, has a degree in a tourism related field, worked in Casinos in other countries and is having trouble with employment on the North Coast. Even when working he doesn't make more than 6-8000 pesos a month. Is it him or is it the country and lack of opportunity?

If you are on the North Coast are you going to the Thanksgiving Dinner in Sosua?

Scott
 

GirlieGirl

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Sooo Controversial!

This is something that could be talked for hours and so much that is said is true. You know... how to decide. My in-laws all live in the capital and are millionaires in US Dollars... they all are engineers and do all the major work around the DR. Then you have my other in law in Santiago that is a doctor and although he is not a millionaire he is doing very well. Then you have my other in laws in Nagua that from what I hear struggle on a daily basis. It is amazing that there can be so many levels of living in the same family. My father in laws parents moved to Miami a long time ago and live very frugally, but they would not come back here if you paid them. However my mother in laws family was the family that donated most of the land in La Vega to La Vega back when some earthquake happened a long long time ago. So it is so crazy to see the levels and ways of living here. I am not rich by any means and my little store is doing okay... it is not huge (then again we have only been open a month) but I am comfortable, however some of the locals here think we are rich.. and no matter what we tell them... they say in dominican standards we are. I am thinking "no my in-laws in the capital are rich - not me"... so I cannot even make a decision into the way of living here, until someone tells me... what is classified as the classes. Am I making any sense????

GG
 

cwoodward3356

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You missed the 4th option, and that is to live as a wealthy person.

A wealthly person has more residual income every month than expenses. Residual income is money that comes every month wether you work or not.

Just because you are rich, doesn't mean your are wealthy, even though alot of rich people are also wealthy. You can also be middle income and poor income and still be wealthy.

If your monthly expenses are RD$7000 every month, but you have RD$9000 in residual income you are wealthy perosn.

This is the puzzle that must be solved, if your are looking for financial peice of mind, where ever you may live in this world.
 

Escott

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Well everything is relative. I have trouble agreeing with some people about what color a car is. They say it is aquamarine and I say it is teal.

I have a hard time when you say you are wealthy if your expenses are 7000 Pesos a month and you take in 9000 Pesos. I would say you were comfortable.
 

GirlieGirl

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I think...

I think that 2000 pesos does not pay my grocery shopping bill. Then again what exactly does the "expenses" include.

?
?
?
GG
 

andy a

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Feb 23, 2002
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Escott,

That's an excellent post, and a very important one for the would-be immigrant to understand.

Although it might seem paradoxical that the cost of living is cheap at the lowest level, very expensive (2 or 3 times probably) at the middle class (by 1st world standards) level, yet cheap again (comparatively) for the wealthy.

The poor live very simply, with few conveniences, even basic ones like sanitation, that are taken for granted in the modern world. Actually, one could probably live just as cheaply in the US if he lived the same way - a hut with an outhouse by a stream.

The cost really jumps at the middle class level though because so much infrastructure is missing in the DR and must be invented to be credible - water, electricity, protection, schooling, postal service, etc. Even eating a healthy diet probably costs almost double what it would in the US.

At the upper economic level, though, it again becomes comparatively cheap to live because hired help is such a big part.

In fact, service (by direct hire) is the true bargain in the DR, as throughout the 3rd world.
 

quaqualita

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Escott said:
......but what range of income would you consider Middle Class?

hhmm.. I think it's difficult to say with what income you are Middle Class - specially here in the DR. Someone who doesn't have tons of money and decides to move here, first has to find his new lifestyle and has to figure out, what does he really needs here to live confortable and what on the other hand is not THAT necessary, allthough he could easily afford it back home.
If you have a cheap place to live and keep your very spendings low, then you can survive here with an income of less than 10,000 Pesos/month, but I wouldn't consider that as Middle Class. If you make 15,000 to 20,000/month, then things start to get better here.

I know people, who worked the first years here in 6000 to 7000 Pesos jobs. But by beeing good at your job, and beeing a little bit lucky, you can work your way up - even here in the DR. Here are people who started e.g. 8 years ago as a 'small' hotel receptionist helper for 6000 Pesos/month and they did this job for many years. But now they are in the hotel management and make 4 or 5 times the money.

If your friend speaks so many languages and has experience in the tourism industry then he has allready a big advantage. However, maybe he is expecting too much to start with? Lots of businesses just cannot afford a high qualified employee. Lots of businesses have to grow with their employees. If the employees work hard and make the business going better, than the business can affort to pay them better.
How long did your friend work in a low paid job? Did he stay long enough and could he wait until e.g. a higher position gets vacant? Did he leave his attitude behind, when he had maybe to work in a job he his overqualified for?

I said at the beginning, it's not easy to be here a 'working middle class', but with not giving up, beeing good at your job, beeing allways friendly and positive it's not impossible to have a good live in paradise, even without an US$ account.

quaqualita
 

Escott

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quaqualita said:
, but I wouldn't consider that as Middle Class. If you make 15,000 to 20,000/month, then things start to get better here.
So 500- US dollars a month is middle class? That means that everyone else over 30000 pesos is upper class? I would NOT want to live on that!
quaqualita said:
, If your friend speaks so many languages and has experience in the tourism industry then he has allready a big advantage. However, maybe he is expecting too much to start with? Lots of businesses just cannot afford a high qualified employee. Lots of businesses have to grow with their employees. If the employees work hard and make the business going better, than the business can affort to pay them better.
How long did your friend work in a low paid job? Did he stay long enough and could he wait until e.g. a higher position gets vacant? Did he leave his attitude behind, when he had maybe to work in a job he his overqualified for?
He has been in the DR for 8 years and is still there. The last tour company didn't pay him the last months salary and that is why he left.
quaqualita said:
I said at the beginning, it's not easy to be here a 'working middle class', but with not giving up, beeing good at your job, beeing allways friendly and positive it's not impossible to have a good live in paradise, even without an US$ account. quaqualita
Maybe because he isn't always friendly is his problem. He has a hard time with stupid bosses. Can't hold his tongue. He hasn't been successful for long periods of time. I tend to believe that is the nature of the DR. He was a night manager of a busy restaurant on the beach in Cabarete making less than the people he supervised. Makes for a angry boss I guess.

Scott
 

Pib

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How I define middle class...

Have access to credit from a bank and have enough money left to go on vacation. I know that sounds vague, but in my mind I am poor but there to at least 85% of Dominicans I am wrong about being poor.
 

quaqualita

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Escott said:
So 500- US dollars a month is middle class? That means that everyone else over 30000 pesos is upper class? I would NOT want to live on that!


True, for everybody who has now a much higher income, it's hard to imagine to live with much less.
There is no exact $$$ definition of middle class, it depends on everybody's personal needs and lifestyle.

I can with less than 30000 Pesos/month pay all my bills in time, go grocery shopping without looking on all the prices, I have a maid, a gardener and a baby sitter. My daughter gets an excellent education at a great school, I can even sponsor a Dominican boy from a very poor Dominican family and pay for his education in the same school my daughter attends. I still have enough cash left over to travel once a year (not around the world though) and can buy a birthday and christmas present for my family.

So yes, I would consider myself as a happy Middle Class person.

quaqualita
 

Kozy

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WHERE one lives in the DR has alot to do with how far the pesos go. To me the capital is, financially speaking , a seperate reality from the rest of the country. Small towns and the campo offer soooo much more "bang for the buck". So before one can determine the price of a middle class existance here, you need to ask WHERE? Santo Domingo is not Los Higaldos-and thank God for that K
 

Escott

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I haven't lived in a city since I moved out of NYC in the late 70's and don't care to live in one now. I prefer the north coast but in a tourist type area so there are always other N. Americanos to chat up if I want to. I don't mind going to Santiago or S.D. but only to visit friends who's company I enjoy.

Quaqualita, seems like you have a nice life with your family. Nice to be able to live well stress free for the most part. I try to do nothing because I can and always end up with stuff on my plate. I must be crazy.

Scott
 

quaqualita

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Escott said:
Quaqualita, seems like you have a nice life with your family. Nice to be able to live well stress free for the most part. I try to do nothing because I can and always end up with stuff on my plate. I must be crazy.

Scott

yep, we are doing ok, but it took us many years to get there what we have now. And, even I live in paradise, it is NOT stress free. At work I have to deal with crazy deadlines every day, my working hrs per week are much more than in other jobs I had 'back home'. But I have a great job and enjoy working, so I don't mind too much.

Year per year has been a little bit better for us, and I hope that it will go on like this for some time more. Maybe one day I can do it like you and try to do nothing, cause I don't need to do anything anymore. Wish us luck!

quaqualita
 

suarezn

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My 10 year Plan

The key words are lifestyle and location. Personally I plan to retire to the DR in abou Ten years. By then my oldest son should should be out of college and my youngest one should already be almost done. I've calculated that I will need to make 1500 USD a month of disposable income to live the life I want. This budget is for a two people household. Notice I said USD, because I wouldn't want to live on a fixed pesos income with the fluctuation of the exchange rate. By having it in USD I can stay ahead of inflation and even benefit from devaluation. I feel that amount should be more than suficient, because there are certain things I plan to take care in advance. I plan to make sure I own my house and car outright, so I don't have to make payments on either one. These are normally the two largest expenses in the DR or anywhere else for that matter, so if eliminated that should give a nice boost to your disposable income. To that effect I'm planning to start building a house this year. The beauty of the DR is that you can build your house at your own pace - As you get money. You don't need to finish it right away, as you would in the US, since there are no rules about having partially finished construction sit iddle for a long time. The other thing that helps me is that I probably will not be spending a lot of money on imported food, liquor, etc...As I actually prefer dominican food. Not to say that I would not indulge on a nice imported steak, lobster, wine, etc...once in a while. This budget would not include travel outside the DR. For that I would need to budget around 5,000 USD a year.

I feel this is a realistic plan. The big question is how do you make about 2000 USD/Month without working (at least not full time) for a living and without completely depleting your lifetime earnings? That's the riddle I have to solve. I have a few ideas...But would like your input. Let's assume by then I have saved 300,000 USD which I could invest on something, that would give me the kind of return I've mentioned above and that would be relatively safe. The return would have to be in USD or some other safe currency (Euros or Pounds). I would need about a 7% yearly return. What would you do?