Diesel generators

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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Does anyone know about small diesel generators? Do they exist, or do they only start at 20kW?

My ideal generator would be

- diesel
- quiet
- can run continously for more than 12 hours
- 4-5 kW

I have no idea if something like this exists. Any thoughts?
 
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Adrian Bye

Bronze
Jul 7, 2002
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No, I'm finding a place now as well.

What I know is this:

- you can get some used diesel generators for about RD $45000
- Trace confirms the generator can recharge your inverter
- you can run diesel generators for a long time, a week or more in some cases
- the quiet ones are 70dB, which is considered quiet enough
- they will run your AC just fine, and will work great in combination with an inverter
- I suspect lots of people will be looking for these now, so if I can find one, I am going to buy it tomorrow.
 

Barnabe

Member
Dec 20, 2002
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INFO FROM ALIBABA.COM; Silent diesel generators prices from China

3. * *Model: 8SMS-1[Unit Price(CIF RIO HAINA in USD):1045]
Engine Model: S1110
Starting System: Motor Starting
Fuel Consumption (L): 250
Engine Type: Single cylinder, four stroke, water-cooled, radiator diesel engine
Cooling Model: Hopper
Rated Rotation Speed (rpm): 1500/1800
Alternator Model: STC-8 (ST-8)
Rated Frequency (Hz): 50 / 60
Rated Voltage (V): 400/230
Rated Current (A): 14.4
Rated Output (kW): 8
Power Factor: 0.8 (Lag)
Dimension (mm): 1250*950*1000
N.W (kg): 550

4. **Model: 10SMS[Unit Price(CIF RIO HAINA in USD):1874]
Rated Output (kW): 10
Rated Current (A): 18.0
Rated Voltage (V): 400/230
Engine type: 295AD
Fuel Consumption (g/kW*h): 245
Alternator: TFW-10-4
Dimension (mm): 1500*900*1000
N.W (kg): 700


5. **Model: 12SMS[Unit Price(CIF RIO HAINA in USD):2083]
Rated Output (kW): 12
Rated Current (A): 21.6
Rated Voltage (V): 400/230
Engine type: 295AD
Fuel Consumption (g/kW*h): 245
Alternator: TFW-12-4
Dimension (mm): 1500*100*1100
N.W (kg): 900

6. **Model: 15SMS[Unit Price(CIF RIO HAINA in USD):2369]
Rated Output (kW): 15
Rated Current (A): 27.0
Rated Voltage (V): 400/230
Engine type: 395AD
Fuel Consumption (g/kW*h): 245
Alternator: TFW-15-4
Dimension (mm): 1850*1000*1240
N.W (kg): 1000
 

pasha

New member
Sep 4, 2003
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adrianb said:
.......Any thoughts?
Hi Adrian/et al..........Consumer Reports did an analysis of small generators in this month's issue, but I can't lay hands on my copy just at the moment. Will track it down and all else failing post a summary of their observations/conclusions.

Meantime, from their web site this free page may give you a start in calculating your actual power needs. The "transfer switch" mentioned gives a lot of flexibility...by turning off various circuits you can basically isolate a few "survival" areas in the home; e.g., the kitchen:

http://www.consumerreports.org/main...&ASSORTMENT<>ast_id=93463&bmUID=1066301486699

I've a fair bit of recent experience with generators from time in Africa. Don't think I'd touch a Chinese anything, but in a pinch you do what you have to do. Suggest you prioritize power needs, starting with communications [fone/computer], then lights, fridge [especially if anyone in the house is on medication that needs to be kept cool]....nice-to-haves like microwave, A/C, etc aren't the major consideration in a real emergency situation.

Best, P
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
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One more consideration on a generator:

if you need to run almost any kind of electrical water pump with this generator, it will require a surge to start the pump up, and will require a generator with a minimum of 12 to 15 KW to start the water pump up, or it will burn your generator if you are underpowered for this job.
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
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Kicking out the circuit breaker applies to juice coming from the electiricity grid which has almost unlimited surge capacity, but a generator is limited by the power of the small motor.

If you have a load on the generator, and then the water pump kicks in to charge up the water system, and it sits there humming for awhile trying to start the pump, you may either damage the generator, or the motor for the generator.

Good rule of thumb - figure 3X the running load for the start-up of the same motor, so if you have a water pump that takes 1400 watts to run, figure 4200 watts to start it up, on top of whatever other loads you have hooked up.

In the long run, it's cheaper to buy a bigger generator if you can - it's cheaper to maintain or repair a bigger generator here than it is to keep bying a new smaller planta every 18 months because you just wore it out. Go shares with a neighbor and run both houses from one set, and split the costs on a bigger planta. If you aren't here much, buy an hourmeter and use it as your "electricity meter " to split the planta costs more equitably.
 

pasha

New member
Sep 4, 2003
358
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November CU Report Summary

The review looked only at "portable" generators, no diesels. Hope my rendition is understandable. This all may be moot if you don't have possibility to shop.

I see both Inverters and generators at Price Club/Costco, but don't know the details. If anyone wishes I can do a fast look.

Question: It's pretty obvious that power outs are not all that rare. Could you come together to buy whatever you want here in states and ship a container or an air freight pallet?

...................

1. Small Portable for basics [3 - 4,000 watts]. I assume this could at least keep your batteries up and going via inverter:

- Fridge [600w],
- several lights [400w],
- sump pump [600w],
- TV [350w]
- microwave [1500w]

Top rated smalls:

Honda EU3000is, 132 pounds, $1,800US, 2,800 watts [claimed], run time 7 hours, very quiet

Yamaha EF3000iSI, 153 pounds, $1,900US, 2,800 watts [claimed], run time 7 hours, very quiet

================================

2. Midsized [4,500 - 7,000 watt] in addition to above will power:

- Window A/C [1,300w]
- Computer [250w]
- More lights [400w]

Recommended models [both "Best Buys"]:

Generac 5500 1646 [sold only at Home Depot], 157 pounds, $650US, 5500 watts, run time 6.5 hours, quiet running

Troy-Bilt 5500 01919 [sold only at Lowes], 156 pounds, $650, 6.5 hours run time, quiet running

===============================

3. Large [10,000 watts] can power most home items [whatever that means]. Only one model tested: Briggs & Stratton Elite 09801, 282 pounds, $1,900USD, 10000 watts [claimed], 6 hours RT, noisy

I also read some user reports elsewhere that gave Generac high marks. Will see if I can find it if anyone is interested. Kindly advise.

Best, P
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
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yahoomail.com
When I bought my house in August 5 years ago,

I thought it was "nice" that it came with a 20 kw Detroit Deisel (Santo Domingo Motors)generator in it's own "house"! A month later came the hurrican,and I fell in love with my "Planta"!I have a 3.6 "TRACE" inverter(More than 7 years use without a service call!) and 8 batteries.I charge the batteries with the "Planta" whenever there is a "serious" power outage.Like last weekend when A truck tore down my electric line!I don't have a transfer swithch,because I only use the "planta" when there is no power and I want "AIR"! The rest of the time the inverter carries the entire house,and one refridgerator too!
I would recomment the transfer switch,if you don't have a "Father-in-law" who turns the "planta" on or off at 3 am as needed!
Here are 2 telphone # to call for some information.Santo Domingo Moters,544-0936,they have "Massey-Ferguson" Super Silent generators of 12 kilos.
Continental Trading Company,567-8322,they sell "Broadcrown" super silents.The 12 kw is on sale this week!
I really suggest you try and buy from a dealer who is close enough to service your generator while it is under warrenty,and later as well!
I have run my "Planta" for over one week,non-stop(after the hurrican)with no problems!! You will love the feeling of being "self-sufficient"!I also have a water well,which I also recommend.When there is no water in the street for a week,I run a hose and fill all the neighbors "cisternas",makes me VERY popular!

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc
 

Chris

Gold
Oct 21, 2002
7,951
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www.caribbetech.com
cost comparison?

Has anyone done a cost comparison lately in terms of what the running costs are of a big planta versus the cost of electricity off the grid? (Not that we have any electricity from the grid these days - listening to the dull roar of the planta in the background and wondering what it really costs us)

Btw, thanks for this info Criss, we will be moving house soon and we're also in the market for a planta. Possibly will be sharing with a good neighbor and we're looking for a bigger model to power two households and one office.
 

AZB

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
12,290
519
113
Yes, the a/c motors need a huge surge wattage to start up if your generator is not up to the capacity, you will burn out the voltage regulator or something more serious. Thats why never try to hook up a strong A/C unit if your generator is not up to the capacity. The initial start up is the kicker then the rest falls into normal range of consumption. its sort of like taking off of an airplane from runway. You need full thrust and when you are at the cruising altitude you don't need as much power to stay afloat.

A/c generators are a pain in the arse as they make alot of noise, they break down often and the mechanics do half ass job. If you have a chinese diesal generator, good luck finding original parts and a qualified mecahnic. If the generator is used then god help you. You will be buying problem with money.

I say stick to invertors and connect 8 batteries if you would like to connect your fridge. Get a 3.5 Kilo capacity to run a big house with low consumption bulbs, TV, fans and various other appliances. Remember, invertors are considered emergency power source so don't go connecting your water pump, a/c or toaster to the unit.
Adrian, call me and I will teach you all about invertors.
Regards
AZB

P.S. if you have a 12-20 kilowatt generator like Cris, then you can run almost anything within resonable power capacity ex: water pump, a/c, toaster etc. It will carry a load of a normal house with all the heavy loads connected.
 
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samiam

Bronze
Mar 5, 2003
592
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Yes you can get Diesel generators with that capacity here in Santo Domingo. I saw a couple, second hand, being sold in a place called L&R comercial some two years ago.

You can check Agencia Bella, San Miguel and Tokio Motors.
 

Chris

Gold
Oct 21, 2002
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www.caribbetech.com
adrianb said:
..... - I suspect lots of people will be looking for these now, so if I can find one, I am going to buy it tomorrow.

Hi adrianb - let us know what you come across. We also need to buy one - a big one - 15 to 20 kilowatt.
 

Adrian Bye

Bronze
Jul 7, 2002
2,077
138
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Generator update

This is what I've found out:

- diesel generators start at about RD $100,000, and you may end up paying RD $200,000.
- I personally need to be able to run a/c 12 hours/day while I work, and I only need the generator to last for a year or so
- for my particular situation a gas powered generator will probably be enough, as I only need to keep 1 a/c + 1.5kW worth of computers running
- silent is good, 70dB or under - but as my friends here said - when there's no power, people don't really mind the noise of generators.

Later on today I will most likely be buying a 5kW honda or mitsubishi gas powered generator. I expect to pay at most RD $60,000, hopefully a lot less.

AZB - thanks for your suggestions. I actually have a trace inverter, but to work effectively I really need air conditioning. I also want to be able to run the washing machine, etc at times. The additional advantage in having a generator is that you can charge the inverter with it.
 

AZB

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
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519
113
Depending on the size of your a/c unit, I would check to make sure if 5kw gen would be enough to start up the compressor of the a/c without damaging the generator (again, we are talking about a/c motors with heavy load connected- compressor).
 

XanaduRanch

*** Sin Bin ***
Sep 15, 2002
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We are running with a small 5KW gasoline generator. Got for 4K pesos and repaired it for 8K more. 12K total and runs like a champ. But it's really too small for the water pump, and way to small for air.

I have been told that diesel generators smaller than 10KW are a different animal than bigger than 10K. There is some sort of perfomace bump that needs to take place at that level. So 15KW-20KW is not really all that big. But if you want more than 10KW you might as well get 20KW or 30KW because it will cost about the same to run.

I had seen these used a few months ago in the 100K to 200K range. Quien sabes quanto cuesta aqui neuvo, mas o menus?

Thanks,

Tom (aka XR)
 

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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Today I bought this generator:

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/es6500.htm

It cost RD $68600 (US $1978) from Cibaena Motors here in Santiago. Online this was selling for US$2500. Apparently they have been selling well, they now only have one left

Its 6.5kW. It'll run for 7-8 hours on a tank of gas, and is fine running for 8 hours at a time. It then needs a 1 hour break, then can be run for another 8 hours. Its a quiet model, and is started by a key.

- It'll run my A/C
- It'll charge my inverter
- It'll run my washing machine

I ended up paying quite a lot, however I've been burned in the past on electric equipment, and so I didn't want to mess around with a secondary brand to save a few thousand pesos. Also prices have gone up significantly due to the peso exchange rate.

I admire Tom & co who can buy a used one and fix it. I'm not that smart!

The cheapest diesel generator I saw was RD $140,000, and the average was $250,000. I'd love to buy one of those, but I'm not at that level yet.

I believe for my current situation this is the right solution. Combined with my inverter I can now work independently of the electric grid indefinitely.
 
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wtf2001

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Aug 22, 2003
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7 hours = 4.4 gallons?

If 4.4 gallons of gas is burned to produce 7 hours of 1/2 load, what is the net cost per hour? Not including wear and tear on the equipment or the theft risk for the planta.

How viable is it to actually invest into a larger generator and be grid independent altogether? With wild electricity rates and such, it is hard to understand the actual cost per kilowatt. On a generator, I guess you have higher cost per watt if you are only using 1/10th of the available load? Does all excess production go to an inverter system?

Thanks!
 

Adrian Bye

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Jul 7, 2002
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> If 4.4 gallons of gas is burned to produce 7 hours
> of 1/2 load, what is the net cost per hour?

Gas at my local station is RD$56/gallon. Assuming I can get through most of the working day on one tank (8 hours, 4.4 gallons), it'll cost RD $246.4. That would include charging the inverter, so I could probably run the remaining 16 hours off the inverter, which is "free".

RD $246.4 * 31 = $7638.4/month. That also means I'd not have a/c for 16 hours/day. Additionally I will have to pay someone to get gas & change the oil every week.

By comparison, I run my a/c & computers almost 24 hours/day when I'm working/sleeping, and my last electric bill was RD $3200.

I'd be interested to hear how these numbers work out for diesel. I was told today its only 15% cheaper than gas. A bigger generator may work out better, although you'd have to share with people, as its not good for it to have a big generator and only use 5-10% of the capacity.