- Thread starter principe
- Start date
What are the chances for electoral fraud
I'm with Chiri on this. I think you knew the answer before you asked the question. Of course there is a better than even chance of election fraud!!!!!
The more relevant question is, whether or not the PRD will be allowed to get away with it.
The more relevant question is, whether or not the PRD will be allowed to get away with it.
This year elections will have more ONU people watching than Hippo's People check out Mr. Leonel lobying with them.
Re: True..
No, because Leonel lost every election he backed up and the only time he won was the election where Balaguer supported him.
And if you think there was fraud under Balaguer (there was), you dont know what Hipolito and the PRD are capable of.
principe said:
No, because Leonel lost every election he backed up and the only time he won was the election where Balaguer supported him.
And if you think there was fraud under Balaguer (there was), you dont know what Hipolito and the PRD are capable of.
ERICKXSON said:
Maybe so, but there have been high-level foreign observers at all recent national elections in the DR, and that did NOT stop a brazen fraud attempt by Balaguer in 1994. What makes you think Hippo, who cares not what people think about anything he does, will hesitate to be equally or more brazen in 2004???
Regards,
Keith
The Hippo
Say what you mean..etc
Perhaps, my naivete got the best of me guys. Right, there was fraud perpetrated under Balaguer. But, i think that this is going to be the first "real" election since his death. Yes, Balaguer handed Leonel (the only reasonable candidate in my view) power, thus the calls of fraud which are true. Fraud looked (maybe felt) like democracy however, because Balaguer had been in power for such a long period of time.
I guess how wide spread will the electoral fraud be? Given the seemingly overwhelming opposition to Hippo. When Balaguer did his thing troughout the 80s there was a tight spot to fit in. Bosch, Pena Gomez, and Jacobo Majluta all had a decent shot, but Balaguer won every time (fraudulently of course). The only recourse of the dominican people would be to have a high voter turnout, only because i would not want what happened in Argentina ( a president a week), or in Bolivia more recently to happen in DR. Although if one keeps tracks of foreign events you may notice that perhaps the population of a nation does not have much in its arsenal to fight agaisnt electoral fraud, simply ask the president elect of Azerbajan who "won," by all accounts a fraudulent election, to receive a call from the State Dept. to congratulate him. Go figure.
Perhaps, my naivete got the best of me guys. Right, there was fraud perpetrated under Balaguer. But, i think that this is going to be the first "real" election since his death. Yes, Balaguer handed Leonel (the only reasonable candidate in my view) power, thus the calls of fraud which are true. Fraud looked (maybe felt) like democracy however, because Balaguer had been in power for such a long period of time.
I guess how wide spread will the electoral fraud be? Given the seemingly overwhelming opposition to Hippo. When Balaguer did his thing troughout the 80s there was a tight spot to fit in. Bosch, Pena Gomez, and Jacobo Majluta all had a decent shot, but Balaguer won every time (fraudulently of course). The only recourse of the dominican people would be to have a high voter turnout, only because i would not want what happened in Argentina ( a president a week), or in Bolivia more recently to happen in DR. Although if one keeps tracks of foreign events you may notice that perhaps the population of a nation does not have much in its arsenal to fight agaisnt electoral fraud, simply ask the president elect of Azerbajan who "won," by all accounts a fraudulent election, to receive a call from the State Dept. to congratulate him. Go figure.
I think somebody needs to send in Jimmy Carter as an observer with a very large delegation. Old Hippo being the boss and great manipulator, he will not let his presidency be relinquished without every attempt at subterfuge.
I bet many dead from the cementeries will vote in next May's election. Hippo is a shame and disgrace for bloating the government payroll with jobs for "no work, no show" advisors, which has more than doubled the peso devaluation since coming to office. He has ruined the country and has no clue how to fix it.
Even if Hipolito could tax everything to death, he would still increase the government payroll and not resolve the electricity problems or pay down on the national debt. Hipolito will make sure there is widespread voting fraud next May to keep in himself in power.
I bet many dead from the cementeries will vote in next May's election. Hippo is a shame and disgrace for bloating the government payroll with jobs for "no work, no show" advisors, which has more than doubled the peso devaluation since coming to office. He has ruined the country and has no clue how to fix it.
Even if Hipolito could tax everything to death, he would still increase the government payroll and not resolve the electricity problems or pay down on the national debt. Hipolito will make sure there is widespread voting fraud next May to keep in himself in power.
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Principe: I was living in the DR during the 1996 elections, and I actually think that they were relatively clean. Balaguer "handed" Leonel the elections because Balaguer had such a stranglehold on his party's vote, and he pretty much dissed the PRSC's official candidate during the first round, his own VP, Peynado.:dead:
Charlie: Jimmy Carter was an official observer in 1994, yet at first went along with Balaguer's fraud then. I lost alot of respect for Carter as election observer that year....Even he should have smelled something fishy when double the eligible voters for one district voted....:surprised
Regards,
Keith
Charlie: Jimmy Carter was an official observer in 1994, yet at first went along with Balaguer's fraud then. I lost alot of respect for Carter as election observer that year....Even he should have smelled something fishy when double the eligible voters for one district voted....:surprised
Regards,
Keith
Jimmy Carter? ONU(United Nations)? I bet the sounds of those words just shakes Hippo to his senses!!!!
Will there be fraud? Hell, I am counting on it. I have changed my mind about Hippo. The man is a Genious! The crap he has gotten away with and be able to stay in power is a tribute to his intelligence. As for the Dominican People....F*ck em! They voted for him! They got what they wanted! They got what they deserved. I am heading down there soon for a piece of the action! I'll take those Chopo's money with pleasure then tell them to kiss off.
GOLO is right!
Will there be fraud? Hell, I am counting on it. I have changed my mind about Hippo. The man is a Genious! The crap he has gotten away with and be able to stay in power is a tribute to his intelligence. As for the Dominican People....F*ck em! They voted for him! They got what they wanted! They got what they deserved. I am heading down there soon for a piece of the action! I'll take those Chopo's money with pleasure then tell them to kiss off.
GOLO is right!
Yakitiyak
For all the ying yang this is what matters...
www.hoy.com.do/?module=displaystory&story_id=21860&format=htmle
For all the ying yang this is what matters...
www.hoy.com.do/?module=displaystory&story_id=21860&format=htmle
Principe: Your web path is bad, try again.
Well, I was unaware that Jimmy Carter had already been an election observer in the D.R. But I would still insist on International observance of some sort that Hipolito doesn't get away with manipulating ballot box tallies and stealing the Presidency.
The only hope for the country is that Leonel gets elected. Then Leonel would have to get reelected again in 2008, because it will take him the first elected 4 yr. term to undo the damaged created by Mejia and the PRD party. If Leonel does not get elected, I think the D.R. will continue to slide into a deeper abyss, with little hope of reversing course.
Well, I was unaware that Jimmy Carter had already been an election observer in the D.R. But I would still insist on International observance of some sort that Hipolito doesn't get away with manipulating ballot box tallies and stealing the Presidency.
The only hope for the country is that Leonel gets elected. Then Leonel would have to get reelected again in 2008, because it will take him the first elected 4 yr. term to undo the damaged created by Mejia and the PRD party. If Leonel does not get elected, I think the D.R. will continue to slide into a deeper abyss, with little hope of reversing course.
Sorry 'bout that
Kingofdice i agree with you. 110%
ps after trying to connect (unsuccessfully) I'll just copy and paste the article (hoy 11-4-03)
Powell, quien salud? efusivamente al presidente dominicano estrech?ndole un abrazo y besando ambos lados de su cara, un inusual gesto que impact? a funcionarios dominicanos, lleg? a Panam? para participar en el cierre de los actos del centenario de la independencia.
?Efusivo saludo, Presidente!, dijo este redactor al Presidente Mej?a. ?S?, de beso y todo?, respondi? sonriendo el mandatario dominicano.
?Es que yo soy un t?tere de los norteamericanos?, bromeo m?s tarde el mandatario, mientras recorr?a una de las tiendas ubicadas en el lobby del hotel Cesar Park, donde se hosped? aqu?.
El Presidente Mej?a y Powell hicieron un aparte al t?rmino del almuerzo que la presidenta de Panam?, Mireya Moscoso, ofreci? a los jefes de Estado y de gobierno, as? como a los cancilleres jefes de misiones que asistieron en calidad de invitados a los actos.
El almuerzo se llev? a efecto en uno de los salones del palacio presidencial La Garza, en la vieja zona de esta ciudad, en medio de estrictas medidas de seguridad.
El Presidente Mej?a reiter? que hab?a conversado con Powell en torno a diferentes asuntos, pero no quiso entrar en detalles pese a la insistencia de la prensa.
El gesto del secretario de Estado norteamericano fue objeto de especulaciones entre funcionarios que integraron la comitiva dominicana a los festejos, interpret?ndolo como una muestra del alegado respaldo de Washington a la administraci?n de Mej?a.
El embajador dominicano aqu?, Gustavo Hernando, quien residi? por muchos a?os en los Estados Unidos, asegur? que nunca antes hab?a sido testigo de algo igual. El resto de la delegaci?n coment? tambi?n sorprendida, pero en t?rminos elogiosos, la actitud de Powell.
El Presidente Mej?a lleg? la ma?ana del domingo a esta ciudad para participar en las festividades del centenario de la independencia de este pa?s e intercambiar las notas que dejaron oficialmente en vigencia un tratado de comercio bilateral.
El lunes, el gobernante y los miembros de su comitiva participaron en gran parte de los actos conmemorativos, entre ellos un desfile c?vico-militar que march? por la vieja zona de esta ciudad y que fue presenciado por el resto de los jefes de Estado, de gobierno y de los cancilleres que estuvieron presentes en representaci?n de m?s de una veintena de pa?ses.
Al final del desfile, se produjo la llegada del secretario Powell acompa?ado, entre otros, del subsecretario para Asuntos Hemisf?ricos, Roger Noriega.
Powell, en medio de estrictas medidas de seguridad, subi? a la tarima desde donde los jefes de Estado presenciaban el desfile, pero inicialmente no se percat? de la presencia del presidente dominicano.
Esto, sin embargo, no ocurri? con el subsecretario Noriega que se detuvo a saludar a Mej?a y al canciller dominicano, Frank Guerrero Prats.
Al concluir el desfile, Powell abandonaba la tarima en compa??a de la presidenta de Panam?, Mireya Moscoso, y fue entonces cuando se percat? de la presencia de Mej?a.
El mandatario dominicano estaba rodeado, adem?s del canciller Guerrero Prats; del embajador dominicano en Panam?, Gustavo Hernando; del director de Protocolo del Palacio Nacional, embajador Fausto Sicard Moya; el director de Prensa, Luis Gonz?lez Fabra y el Jefe del Cuerpo de Ayudantes Militares, mayor general Carlos D?az Morfa.
Powell y Mej?a se confundieron en un abrazo y periodistas presentes observaron claramente cuando el funcionario estadounidense le estamp? el beso en la mejilla.
?Es un gesto de cortes?a, de respeto?, coment? el director de Prensa, Gonz?lez Fabra.
EL SUBSECRETARIO
El Subsecretario Noriega, de su lado, no quiso responder a preguntas de este diario. ?No, el secretario Powell hablar? luego con la prensa?, respondi? cuando se trat? de indagar en torno a informes que dan cuenta de investigaciones auspiciadas por los Estados Unidos y que implicar?an a funcionarios dominicanos y de otros pa?ses de la regi?n en casos de corrupci?n, lavado de dinero y narcotr?fico.
Se le se?al?, incluso, el caso de funcionarios dominicanos que han sido despojados de su visado norteamericano, pero insisti? en mantener
Kingofdice i agree with you. 110%
ps after trying to connect (unsuccessfully) I'll just copy and paste the article (hoy 11-4-03)
Powell, quien salud? efusivamente al presidente dominicano estrech?ndole un abrazo y besando ambos lados de su cara, un inusual gesto que impact? a funcionarios dominicanos, lleg? a Panam? para participar en el cierre de los actos del centenario de la independencia.
?Efusivo saludo, Presidente!, dijo este redactor al Presidente Mej?a. ?S?, de beso y todo?, respondi? sonriendo el mandatario dominicano.
?Es que yo soy un t?tere de los norteamericanos?, bromeo m?s tarde el mandatario, mientras recorr?a una de las tiendas ubicadas en el lobby del hotel Cesar Park, donde se hosped? aqu?.
El Presidente Mej?a y Powell hicieron un aparte al t?rmino del almuerzo que la presidenta de Panam?, Mireya Moscoso, ofreci? a los jefes de Estado y de gobierno, as? como a los cancilleres jefes de misiones que asistieron en calidad de invitados a los actos.
El almuerzo se llev? a efecto en uno de los salones del palacio presidencial La Garza, en la vieja zona de esta ciudad, en medio de estrictas medidas de seguridad.
El Presidente Mej?a reiter? que hab?a conversado con Powell en torno a diferentes asuntos, pero no quiso entrar en detalles pese a la insistencia de la prensa.
El gesto del secretario de Estado norteamericano fue objeto de especulaciones entre funcionarios que integraron la comitiva dominicana a los festejos, interpret?ndolo como una muestra del alegado respaldo de Washington a la administraci?n de Mej?a.
El embajador dominicano aqu?, Gustavo Hernando, quien residi? por muchos a?os en los Estados Unidos, asegur? que nunca antes hab?a sido testigo de algo igual. El resto de la delegaci?n coment? tambi?n sorprendida, pero en t?rminos elogiosos, la actitud de Powell.
El Presidente Mej?a lleg? la ma?ana del domingo a esta ciudad para participar en las festividades del centenario de la independencia de este pa?s e intercambiar las notas que dejaron oficialmente en vigencia un tratado de comercio bilateral.
El lunes, el gobernante y los miembros de su comitiva participaron en gran parte de los actos conmemorativos, entre ellos un desfile c?vico-militar que march? por la vieja zona de esta ciudad y que fue presenciado por el resto de los jefes de Estado, de gobierno y de los cancilleres que estuvieron presentes en representaci?n de m?s de una veintena de pa?ses.
Al final del desfile, se produjo la llegada del secretario Powell acompa?ado, entre otros, del subsecretario para Asuntos Hemisf?ricos, Roger Noriega.
Powell, en medio de estrictas medidas de seguridad, subi? a la tarima desde donde los jefes de Estado presenciaban el desfile, pero inicialmente no se percat? de la presencia del presidente dominicano.
Esto, sin embargo, no ocurri? con el subsecretario Noriega que se detuvo a saludar a Mej?a y al canciller dominicano, Frank Guerrero Prats.
Al concluir el desfile, Powell abandonaba la tarima en compa??a de la presidenta de Panam?, Mireya Moscoso, y fue entonces cuando se percat? de la presencia de Mej?a.
El mandatario dominicano estaba rodeado, adem?s del canciller Guerrero Prats; del embajador dominicano en Panam?, Gustavo Hernando; del director de Protocolo del Palacio Nacional, embajador Fausto Sicard Moya; el director de Prensa, Luis Gonz?lez Fabra y el Jefe del Cuerpo de Ayudantes Militares, mayor general Carlos D?az Morfa.
Powell y Mej?a se confundieron en un abrazo y periodistas presentes observaron claramente cuando el funcionario estadounidense le estamp? el beso en la mejilla.
?Es un gesto de cortes?a, de respeto?, coment? el director de Prensa, Gonz?lez Fabra.
EL SUBSECRETARIO
El Subsecretario Noriega, de su lado, no quiso responder a preguntas de este diario. ?No, el secretario Powell hablar? luego con la prensa?, respondi? cuando se trat? de indagar en torno a informes que dan cuenta de investigaciones auspiciadas por los Estados Unidos y que implicar?an a funcionarios dominicanos y de otros pa?ses de la regi?n en casos de corrupci?n, lavado de dinero y narcotr?fico.
Se le se?al?, incluso, el caso de funcionarios dominicanos que han sido despojados de su visado norteamericano, pero insisti? en mantener
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principe
Maybe you don't know, but posting an entire article is not really kosher... this unofficially of course. I think it's only a rule in the debate forum.
And about Powell and Hipo, one thing comes to mind: Judas' kiss.
Maybe you don't know, but posting an entire article is not really kosher... this unofficially of course. I think it's only a rule in the debate forum.
And about Powell and Hipo, one thing comes to mind: Judas' kiss.
kingofdice said:
No one, will be able to undo what Crapolito and the PRD have done. Not even if Leonel had Harry potter and The Hogwart's School of Magic pulling off tricks at the Central bank trying to save the economy.
Don get me wrong, I'd rather have the afroman instead of the dickhead. Leonel has all the advantages to win in any scenario today. - Vs. a PRD candidate (Any candidate) he'll get between 56-57% and vs. Eduardo Estrella (in case he comes second which today is unlikely but not impossible tomorrow) he'll get between 53-54%- so he wins in any case. Today the economy is so bad now and very few have realized we'll never get back to the pre-20X1 peso era. Our reserves have hit an all time low about 90+MM and are now about 141MM when only 7 years ago balaguer had almos 1000MM. If we are lucky, Leonel will tax us some more and at first we'll pay because things are going to get better, they always do when you hit rock bottom, dont they? Three years down the line we'll realize its the same crap and vote for some other guy, probable the wolfman estrella on his second comming, because people will still be fed up with the PRD and leonel will try to stay in power and maybe he will, maybe he wont...who knows.
But all Leonel will be able to do is put some people in jail. Not all mind you, just a select few. But I'll be happy if he locks Guido, Calderon and Malcum, They deserves that some bad ass inmate from La Victoria get mideval on their asses.
Fraud & elections
For Leonel to win against Hipocrito, oops... I mean Hipolito, without a bit of fraud of his own, he will never win.
It would be like bringing a baseball glove to a football game.
"Ya gots ta do what ya gots ta do!!!"
Despite the mess that El Burro has made of this country, some people, including myself, believe he can get back in for a second term. Although he has no ability to run a country, he sure knows a lot of tricks for getting elected.
I feel like I'm sliding down a 50 foot razor blade into a bowl of iodine.
We have to do something......
For Leonel to win against Hipocrito, oops... I mean Hipolito, without a bit of fraud of his own, he will never win.
It would be like bringing a baseball glove to a football game.
"Ya gots ta do what ya gots ta do!!!"
Despite the mess that El Burro has made of this country, some people, including myself, believe he can get back in for a second term. Although he has no ability to run a country, he sure knows a lot of tricks for getting elected.
I feel like I'm sliding down a 50 foot razor blade into a bowl of iodine.
We have to do something......
Fraud Ballots
I heard that there would be pre marked ballots with every tourist card sold and the customs would deposit them into a ballot box for counting later on election night.
This would be an new definition of an absentee ballot.
I heard that there would be pre marked ballots with every tourist card sold and the customs would deposit them into a ballot box for counting later on election night.
This would be an new definition of an absentee ballot.