Haitian Solution?

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Tony C

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Lets face facts!
Neither side of the current Haitian turmoil can be considered good for future of Haiti. One is lead by a installed despot and the other side can best be described as "thugs".
Now considering that anything that happens in Haiti has an Reaction in the DR what would you consider to be the Best Posible scenario for a solution to the Haitian Crisis?
I am asking for a point of view of what is best for the DR!
In my opinion it would be best for the DR if the US was to intervene with troops. Remove Aristide and his cronies. Ditto the Oposition and occupy Haiti with the Long term goal of education of the populace and stimulate business(Small and Large). This would take years of US occupation(At least a Generation). Of course this has very little chance of actually happening.
 

PICHARDO

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Tony C:

The US has a crappy history of messin' up when it comes to Latin American countries, just look 90 miles away from the keys, it would only take about a few hours and ditto!

Yet here we're again staring at the barrel of a sawed-off doubled barreled and self destructive Haitian black powder keg, last time the US went in and wet the situation down, this time around it's not much different, after all it's been known quite well that the US supports and looks the other way when Strong-armed shady characters take over power in play-Doh countries, yet for all the think tanks and what have you, control it's more of who's holding whom with fear, Aristide went out of bounds with his Papa-Doc's tactics and he's now paying the price for it, but the US doesn't need or want for that matter a whole new wave of Haitians trying to reach Miami Shores anytime soon, quite the opposite the only thing holding the "Rebels" out of Puerto Principe it's the chain of command, which by this time has already decided to let loose the dogs on Aristide for his insistence on not living, you bet this has been no let's get together and buy some guns in Miami, take over Haiti and have a BBQ, NOOOOOooooo Sir! Like I posted somewhere here in this vast forum land, this was a well planned and still top commandos directed plot, all the way from the very start, it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck and looks like a Duck, darn it! it's a _ _ _ _ ! Fill the blank...

The plan will be, to have the "Rebels" remove Aristide from power alive and well to DR the Miami, via a chartered plane sitting on the tarmac of the airport with engines on 24/7 so the plan could go on without a hitch, then have the "Rebels" gallantly deposit the power over to a magically new formed coalition of the opposition and supposed members of the Aristide cabinet, set a multinational force on the ground for peace keeping and set an infrastructure for the new Haiti to come, the biggest international industrial complexes on this side of the pond, cheap, cheap, cheap labor the top of the menu served there after, all for the good of the Haitian people of course!

Then we can proceed and recall the Special Ops back to RD and safely out of sight of the international press, it was like a good training drill after their US instructors imparted some new lessons on covert ops.

When you see the top of the chain in such tranquility it's because they're eating from the prime rib buddy, Soto Jimenez walks like Trujillo on Villa Vasquez back in the 60's.
 

Texas Bill

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Haitian Solution?????

Pichardo;

Let's take a look at yet another speculative scenario, isolating such to the immediate geographical mileau.

Phillipe has, in actuality, invaded Haiti from the Dominican Republic! Would it not be more in keeping with the facts to develop the proposition that such an invasion was promulgated from within the DR Government and it's military arm in support of that action??
Presidente Hipolito has, for the immediate past, been scrambling for a surperior position politically to perpetuate his incumbancy in the office presently occupied.
The budgetary allowances have been dramatically increased and sustained for the military as a whole. Would that fact alone not seem to be significant in the relationship of the current situation?
From what source has Phillipe drawn the funds necessary to launch an insurrecton and who has been looking the other way during the time required for him to develop his military capability, train his troops, transport them to a launch site and ultimately cross the inpenatrable border into Haiti to begin the current activity?
I would submit that, from the begining, Phillipe has had the covert support of the Dominican military, the Dominican Government (Hipolito) and the power structure thereof. Such support given for the reason of creating chaos which, hopefully, would spill over into the DR thereby creating an excuse for the declaration of martial law and giving Hipolito the excuse to extend his tenure of office indefinitely.
In support of this premise; how is it that a man who fled Haiti and was welcomed to the DR managed to assemble an invading force under the "watchful eye" of the Dominican government, arm that force, then transport it to a disembarcation point and actually invade Haiti whithout the Dominican military being aware of his activities?
I sincerely sollicit your comments, and the comment of others in this regard.
Put your thinking caps on, people, and come up with the answers that fit the scenario!

Texas Bill
 

bochinche

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just to keep the dominican connection going, here is a link to a bbc page about dominican concerns for the haitian crisis.

Dominicans wary of Haiti violence

there is a roundup of what the dominican dailies have to say in their editorials.
there is not a lot of new information, but it is interesting.

tony c is once again misinformed. sitting in miami, watching cnn does not help.
the opposition are not the same as the rebels. the rebels are a nasty piece of work and there only connection with the opposition is that they are against aristide. admittedly, aristide, the former priest, is also no angel.

the obvious leader of the opposition (although there are many other parties) could be said to be andre apaid. he and his family have many business interests in the dominican republic, which help to employ many dominicans.
an american intervention could have a direct effect on these businesses. if he became president (i have no idea if he would be a good one), that could also possibly have a direct effect on the dominican republic.
living in the dominican republic, i know which one i would prefer.

let's give americans a chance to show they can resolve unfinished matters in afghanistan, iraq, etc. before they create another problem for themselves in haiti.
 

CES

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thinking caps on . . .

Texas Bill said:
Pichardo;

. . . I sincerely sollicit your comments, and the comment of others in this regard. Put your thinking caps on, people, and come up with the answers that fit the scenario!

Texas Bill

<font size=4>Roger Francisco Noriega</font>

. . . CES
:alien:
 

BushBaby

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We have all seen how much "Uncle Hippo" wants to be President again. Let's follow Tony's suggestion/thought in another thread, allow the annexing of Haiti to the DR, hold the Presidential elections on the 16th May as planned & let Hippo become the President - only of Haiti (under Leonel Fernando's control - of course!!) NOT the DR.

This would keep Hippo & the PPH happy, it would allow the DR to keep that Dictatorial group OUT of the DR & with luck, the Haitians might find something in his personality that suits their way of life!!

Do you think the international community would go for that suggestion Tony?? - Grahame.
 

Texas Bill

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BushBaby said:
We have all seen how much "Uncle Hippo" wants to be President again. Let's follow Tony's suggestion/thought in another thread, allow the annexing of Haiti to the DR, hold the Presidential elections on the 16th May as planned & let Hippo become the President - only of Haiti (under Leonel Fernando's control - of course!!) NOT the DR.

This would keep Hippo & the PPH happy, it would allow the DR to keep that Dictatorial group OUT of the DR & with luck, the Haitians might find something in his personality that suits their way of life!!

Do you think the international community would go for that suggestion Tony?? - Grahame.

BushBaby!!!

That's the best solution for the problems of both countries that I've heard so far!!

Let's ALL work with BB to effect that solution!

Texas Bill
 

CES

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US accused of training Haitian rebels in Dominican Republic

'. . . The commission that interviewed Aristide in the Central AfricanRepublic, where he went into exiled after he "resigned," will present the definitive report to the US Congress, the Dominican government, the Organization of American States (OAS) and the Caribbean Community and Common Market (Caricom), which has not recognized yet the new Haitian regime. . .'

HAVANA, March 29 (Xinhuanet) -- The United States armed and trained in the Dominican Republic the groups that rose against former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, a preliminary report issued in the Dominican Republic indicated Monday.

This provisional conclusion was reached by the Investigation Commission on Haiti, formed by religious persons and lawyers of several nations and created in 1991 by the former US Secretary of Justice Ramsey Clark.

"200 soldiers of the US Special Forces arrived in the DominicanRepublic, with the authorization of Dominican President Hipolito Mejia, as a part of the military operation to train Haitian rebels," declared the commission when unveiling the report in the Dominican capital Santo Domingo.

Priest Luis Barrios and lawyer Briant Concannon, both members of the "independent" commission, presented the preliminary resultsof the investigation that contradicted the Dominican authorities which had previously considered "surrealistic and oneiric" the delivery of US guns to Haitian rebels in their national soil, as some accusations stated. . .

<font size=1>- snip -

2004-03-30

? 2003 Xinhua News Agency</font>

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . CES
:alien:
 

Tony C

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A People's Republic of China News Service reporting from Havana Cuba on the conclusions of a commision founded by Ramsey Clark!

Can you give me one good reason why Anyone should believe this story?
 

atienoor

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Xinhua News-DR/Haiti

Tony,

I hope that was a joke. For the same reason almost everyone believes what CNN reports on Botswana, Papua New Guinea, Kosovo, Iraq and Somalia, ha ha!

Xinhua is very respectable.

As for solutions to the DR/Haiti question, I have not been here long enough to shoot my mouth!
 

Tony C

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atienoor said:
Tony,
Xinhua is very respectable.
QUOTE]

A government run news agency from a communist dictatorship is respectable?

There has not been one shread of evidence produced involving the US gov. in the Haitian rebellion.

Back to the original topic.
With the UN and the Euro-weenies firmly implaced in Haiti will that bring enough stability to the west side of the island as to aleviate illegal immigration to the DR?
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Hmn. My post was deleted. Well, there's precedent for not deleting this one:

ROGER NORIEGA

Sorry, not allowed to comment more.

Tony C said:
There has not been one shread of evidence produced involving the US gov. in the Haitian rebellion.

Funny. That one was allowed to stand. Hmn. I might have thought that up to 800 US soldiers on the border at the time of the insurgency (as reported in the Miami Herald in a USIA planted story) might indicate something was going on.

You on the USIA payroll, Criss? It's okay if you are. I mean, I only write bad stuff about the Bushees because I'm hoping that the USIA will finally start paying me not to.
 
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Tony C

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
Funny. That one was allowed to stand. Hmn. I might have thought that up to 800 US soldiers on the border at the time of the insurgency (as reported in the Miami Herald in a USIA planted story) might indicate something was going on.
QUOTE]

You forgot one thing. They are on the DOMINICAN side of the border! The insurection started in Gonaives. No where near the border.
I know you look for any conspiracy to point your finger at the US but still there is not one piece of concrete evidence of US involvement. Do you really think that 800 US Troops can keep that a secrete this long? How about the 1000's of Dominicans living along the border areas?
Please. Until you have concrete eveidence. Photos/Video/Piles of ducuments, Post your conspiracy theories on the Left-wing/I hate America/Can't we all just get along, message boards.
 
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Tony C said:
[You forgot one thing. They are on the DOMINICAN side of the border! The insurection started in Gonaives. No where near the border..


Right. On the Dominican side of the border. Exactly where the better-armed and organized Haitian rebels came from. You know, the ones with the uniforms and M-16s that, as has been well reported, crossed the border from the Dominican side



Tony C said:
I know you look for any conspiracy to point your finger at the US but still there is not one piece of concrete evidence of US involvement....

Sorry. But where there's smoke, there's fire.

Tony C said:
Until you have concrete eveidence. Photos/Video/Piles of ducuments, Post your conspiracy theories on the Left-wing/I hate America/Can't we all just get along, message boards.

You sound like the White House spokesman talking about how the U-2 doesn't exist. But, fair enough otherwise, except that I'm not "left wing" and don't "hate" American political leaders who truly have respect for Latin American democracy.

By the way, if I have to use the "left wing" board, and as long as we're throwing out cheap labels, is there a Miami-Cuban Reaganite Reactionary board that you could use?
 
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Tony C

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
Right. On the Dominican side of the border. Exactly where the better-armed and organized Haitian rebels came from. You know, the ones with the uniforms and M-16s that, as has been well reported, crossed the border from the Dominican side?
Well reported? Where? I have seen 2 photos of a guy holding a M-16 family rifle. No proof of how it was acquired! SHOW ME PROOF!!!! SHow me stockpiles of weapons. Show me a infrastructure. Show me Documents. Shoe me serial numbers. Show me training bases. Show me intervues with dozens of Haitian rebels who tell of US Training. Not just 1 or 2 disgruntled slobs.
SHOW ME PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!
Porfio_Rubirosa said:
Sorry. But where there's smoke, there's fire.?
Is that the best you can do?
Porfio_Rubirosa said:
You sound like the White House spokesman talking about how the U-2 doesn't exist. But, fair enough otherwise, except that I'm not "left wing" and don't "hate" American political leaders who truly have respect for Latin American democracy.?
Haiti isn't in Latin America and it hardly was a Democracy!

Porfio_Rubirosa said:
By the way, if I have to use the "left wing" board, and as long as we're throwing out cheap labels, is there a Miami-Cuban Reaganite Reactionary board that you could use?
Reactionary? Thats what you guys call people living in the real world when your types are tired of the word Facist.
 

Texas Bill

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wventura said:
How is Haiti not in latin america, but the dominican republic is???

please explain.

Latin America, as it is commonly referred to, consists of those countries GEOGRAPHICALLY composed of the countries south of the US/Mexican border to include all of South America.
On the other hand those countries in the Carribbean Basin (Cuba,The Caymans, the Greater Antilles, the Lesser Antilles, Aruba, Bonao and Curacao) are not considered, geographically, to be part of Latin America.
That should do it.

Texas Bill
 
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