Puzzled By Race Perception In The Dr

Status
Not open for further replies.

atienoor

New member
Mar 8, 2004
55
0
0
Hi,

I moved to the DR four months ago after working in Eastern Europe. I was so happy to get posted here because I thought we would fit here perfectly. My husband is caucasian American and am of African descent.

Having lived around the world, I would be naive to say that racism does not exist because it does everywhere. Black to white, white to black, black to green, brown, yellow or whatever.How we relate to people of different skin color, culture, religion or whatever way of life is what matters.

But the hatred I have experienced in this country is mind boggling and has shaken my beliefs, tolerance and knowledge of humanbeings to its roots. When I talk to Dominicans about this, they say that it is nonsense and stupid on the part of those who are antagonistic towards me because afterall, most Dominicans are of black descent! Others tell me it is the whole history with Haitians.Others are open enough to ask me how I cope here because Domicans are very racist!

What are your experiences?

:alien:
 
Last edited:

Larry

Gold
Mar 22, 2002
3,513
2
0
Being a frequent tourist to the country, I cannot relay experiences on this matter in the depth that residents of the DR can but I have noticed a few things on my trips to my favorite country. I definately notice more discrimination on a social class basis than on a color basis. Keeping this in mind however, I noticed the further you are down on the economic totem pole, the less you care about color. I notice poor whites, blacks and all colors in between living in poverty appear blind to what color they are. On the other hand, as you move further up the economic totem pole, lighter skinned people appear more intenet on seperating themselves from darker skinned ones. I have had several people with money describe places they frequent ( restaurants, bars) and tell me with broad smiles that these places are "90% india clara and only 10% morena". Or they have beamed, "There are no morenos there". I have also heard of restaurants that turn black people away. I recently returned from a trip and went to a casino. The casino was in a resort that I was not staying at. I drove up to the gate which had a long wodden barrier pulled across restricting access. A guard came out and looked into the car and asked where we were going. I replied, " El casino por favor". He said sure and drew the barrier so we could enter. I wasn't expecting admittance since I wasn't staying at the resort but after I was allowed in, I wondered what was the whole purpose of the barrier. When I was leaving a few hours later, I asked the same guard what was the barrier for. He replied, " to keep some people out". I replied "who"? He then explained that there were several problems with black American tourists coming into the casino lately and they were very disrespectful so the new policy of the complex was not to allow any black gringos into the casino unless they were actually staying at the resort. I thought this was interesting as it is something that could never fly in the United States but he seemed to view it as no big deal. Just a change of policy in his eyes.

Larry
 
Last edited:

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
atienoor, there are lots of discussions about racism and identity in the DR in the DR1 archives. Most of them end up as slanging matches unfortunately. Pity, because it is a fascinating subject.

I am sorry to hear you have experienced hatred. What has happened?

Chiri
 

ClippedWing

New member
Jan 12, 2002
353
0
0
Chirimoya said:
atienoor, there are lots of discussions about racism and identity in the DR in the DR1 archives. Most of them end up as slanging matches unfortunately. Pity, because it is a fascinating subject.

I am sorry to hear you have experienced hatred. What has happened?

Chiri

What self respecting black woman refers to herself as a "nigger" and that she's black as army boots? This is obviously a troll. But you guys can feed into it if you wish. And if she is not a troll then the answer to her questions lies right in her own post. If she can view her ownself so negatively well then, like duh.. others will also.

Smooches...Clip.
 

Narcosis

New member
Dec 18, 2003
387
0
0
Atienoor

Funny you lived in Eastern Europe and your mention of black army boots reminded me of my own travels through eastern Europe.

It amazes me coming from someone that actually lived there. So you never encountered TRUE hatred in the form of a Skinhead?

They are everywhere. I have witnessed them spitting on people on busses and the street. That is racism. To say you encountered that or worse in the DR is a lie!

This seems to be another hype post from someone with an obvious agenda!
 

atienoor

New member
Mar 8, 2004
55
0
0
Thanks so much for your reponse. Often people react negatively when they have had bad experiences with a particular `type` of people. Your email explains alot.I will check out the archives. I hope this does not turn into a slanging march, was not my intention.

Chiri, I have been told by a tienda assistant at Benetton in Plaza Central to leave the shop as I could not afford anything there.Ofcourse I went ahead and purchased what I needed, never been back there since. A guard outside an italian shoe shop in Naco asked me what a dirty morena could want from that shoe shop.........

Last year, a well to do school turned down our application for our son to join their school. Reason, the class was full. My husband?s colleague managed to get their kid in the same day I was denied admission. I try not to be paranoid but how do you interpret that?

An exclusive country club often lets us in ofcourse am always with my spouse. Last week I went alone and even though the car had a valid membership sticker and I had all the papers, the guard refused to help me in. He called whoever and explained there was a Morena claiming to be a member!............I could write a book!
 

atienoor

New member
Mar 8, 2004
55
0
0
Clippedwings,

Gee, I value honesty!Black as army boots is how my friend back in eastern europe tried to explain the curiousity the locals expressed in my skin color!

See my point about nigger, it is a word that illicits very degradatory perceptions from people.You automatically percieved it as me having no love for myself.Am not African American, am african and that word we did not grow up with.


Am as proud as an African mama-Smooches
 

AnnaC

Gold
Jan 2, 2002
16,050
418
83
:devious: I guess everyone is busy but we are NOT allowed to talk about race and racism.

Don't worry about it there's dumb asses everywhere and there's people against their own as well.

Let's just be part of the Human Race. :bunny:
 

Forbeca

Bronze
Mar 5, 2003
729
2
0
Question...

atienoor said:
An exclusive country club often lets us in ofcourse am always with my spouse. Last week I went alone and even though the car had a valid membership sticker and I had all the papers, the guard refused to help me in. He called whoever and explained there was a Morena claiming to be a member!............I could write a book!

Unfortunately this one is true. I have seen people being turned down first hand.

I hope you raised hell.
 

atienoor

New member
Mar 8, 2004
55
0
0
Narcosis,

Where in eastern europe did you visit? I know that things can get tighter elsewhere than they can here. I went to school in the US and UK and never experinced it. I was one of five black women in a country in EE! never met skinheads and hope I never do.

But the point is that we expected not to stand out in the DR given its mixed heritage and it has been a steep learning curve.Just wanted to know what others perception are and learn from it.

No hidden agendas, hate them, really! :rolleyes:
 

lhtown

Member
Jan 8, 2002
377
0
16
If what you are talking about is true and it could be given the places you described, what you are dealing with is basically classism not racism imho.

Some percieve it to be racism since it usually breaks down along racial lines, but it is not necesarily racism. If you are a sharp black person, you can go basically anywhere with no problem. The proprietors of upscale establishments are mostly just trying to keep out rifraff who have nothing to contribute to their bottom line and only offend their paying customers.

Dress nicely in clothes that are decently coordinated, bathe, carry yourself with grace and dignity, be polite and nice-in general, look like you have some class and dignity and you will probably find yourself accepted in pretty much any public/commercial area. Santo Domingo residents are experts in judging people by class. If you fit their definition of low class, a new set of clothes might help, but by itself it will not solve your problem. Like it or lump it, that is life.
 

Narcosis

New member
Dec 18, 2003
387
0
0
Not only in Eastern Europe but in every major city in Europe.

Still are regular marches of right-wing fascist in Spain and Italy, LePenn (spelling?) is still a major political force in France, and these are the more "moderate" countries.

Skinheads are everywhere in the UK, Belgium, Holland and especially Germany and Austria. Right-wing movements and xenophobia is rampant Eastern Europe, Budapest comes to mind as well as Slovania.

The point is everything you mentioned, as unfortunate as it is, could have happened even in the US. I am not trying to dilute what has happened to you but it is a world of difference from real hate you see in Europe or elsewhere. Dominicans are a loving people. I personally am vigilant about certain people that bring this issue as their agenda. It is obviously not yours it seems.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
lhtown, I'd like to challenge that. I am white and often dress very informally, to say the least: shorts, scruffy t shirts, sandals. (I do bathe regularly, I hasten to add). I have never been denied access anywhere, nor looked down on in posh shops or shopping malls. I have visited the SDCC (as a guest) a number of times in my shabby little Fiat Uno, dressed in my usual garb, without a second look from the men at the gate!

I was once out on the town with a Dominican friend, whom Dominicans would describe as 'moreno'. He is what you would call a sharp dresser. We got the 'private party' treatment when trying to enter a nightclub.

To deny that this happens... is delusional.

Chiri
 

ClippedWing

New member
Jan 12, 2002
353
0
0
atienoor said:
Clippedwings,

Gee, I value honesty!Black as army boots is how my friend back in eastern europe tried to explain the curiousity the locals expressed in my skin color!

See my point about nigger, it is a word that illicits very degradatory perceptions from people.You automatically percieved it as me having no love for myself.Am not African American, am african and that word we did not grow up with.


Am as proud as an African mama-Smooches

This is silly. You make no sense. You wonder why you are treated negatively when you embrace negative words and images to describe yourself? This is a no brainer. Screw your friend for thinking it was cool to compare your color to army boots and screw you for accepting it and screw you again for thinking the word "nigger" is okay to describe yourself because you didnt' grow up with it.

If you're so tired of being treated poorly the first corrective action is to first stop treating yourself so poorly.

You're weird. I think you're a troll with an agenda. Because this makes no sense to me.

Smooches...Clip.
 

atienoor

New member
Mar 8, 2004
55
0
0
Clippedwings

I do not want to argue with you. You have the right to see things the way you do. I obviously do not make sense to you but i seem to make sense to others. What transpired between my friend and I vis a vis the description for army boots was a joke that I will not go into. Even the darkest of people in Africa, no one resembles the color of army boots!

My reference to the word nigger was in relation to the way it had been used in another thread. Just because I did not grow up with the word nigger being hurled at my face does not mean I do not understand it neither does it mean I accept people to refer to me or others as such.

There are no agendas here. I just wanted to sound others on this subject. Your opinion about me being a troll has been heard loud and clear. Am not about to defend my looks.You do not know me.

So lets not get personal.
 

QUALITYGUY1

New member
Mar 24, 2003
35
0
0
I will make one statement on this topic and no more....racism and all of it's counterparts is a devisive tool used by the most powerful to control people. People in power love this kind of thing because it keeps people devided into many sub-segments in society fighting between one another. This is quite evident even on this board...just read a bit! When people are fighting in all different directions about many little issues they lose site of the big picture. This keeps their minds off of the real issues (or the real culprits)! Can anyone see that if all peoples were to unite under one commom cause...that is, the good of all human beings, the people in all countries would have the power to control their destinies, not be controlled by big business/big government (one in the same IMO). The common man (i.e. most of us!) would triumph, not just the wealthy. It is classic in history for big powers to set one people against another for motives other that what is in the best interest of either party. Again, IMO of course.
 
Last edited:

ClippedWing

New member
Jan 12, 2002
353
0
0
atienoor said:
Clippedwings

Just because I did not grow up with the word nigger being hurled at my face does not mean I do not understand it neither does it mean I accept people to refer to me or others as such.

So lets not get personal.

Yet you refer and describe yourself as such? And you want to be taken seriously?

That's like me calling myself a clown and then when others start calling me a clown then I get upset.

Or better yet, that's like me disrespecting myself and then when I go to the guard shack- I get disrespected and then I wonder why.

I still say the answer to your initial question is in your own post that you yourself wrote. Instead of walking around calling yourself names and thinking everyone should "get it" and getting upset when they don't, I say hold your head up high, be proud of your skin color and others will respect you. Until then, I can't see how you expect not to be bothered with racism when you yourself openly embrace degrading words.

Smooches..Clip.
 
Mar 21, 2002
856
2
0
Black people call each by saying wassup ma nigga'. White and spanish kids in AMERICA use the term in a funny way towards each other so leave atticnoir alone. She's just being funny. Atticnoir don't worry, everyone in the DR picks on each other be it color, clothing, behavior etc. Hey my family tells me pariguayo all the time. Don't feel bad the DR is where you belong. After all it's a black country. To find a white person in the DR is like winning a pale.Hard to come by.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.