Conclusion and Confusion

Voyager

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Mar 1, 2004
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Please somebody straighten me out, cuz I am lost...

A. Living expenses

I am probably going to get ?corrected? now, but? I did some calculus and I just can?t help being confused! Let me show you!

First, to simplify comparisons, I have translated all figures into Dominican pesos, using the latest rate on this board. The calculation is meant to reflect the cost for one person. Okey ,here goes?

Earlier today, I called a Dominican friend in Santo Domingo and asked him for a typical price for a good apartment in a good neighbourhood. He said 2.000.000 pesos. Then I asked the price of a good car (=4WD Jeep type of car), that will take you through Santo Domingo traffic (incidentally, the worst traffic I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot!). He said 1.000.000 pesos.

About cost of living, people on this board have mentioned a wide variation of figures. Let me suggest an average of 50.000 pesos per month (that is for one person). That adds up to 600.000 pesos per year.

(A normal month for me includes restaurant 4 times, bar/pub at least 4 times, movie twice, concert/theater/show once. Is 50.000 pesos enough for that plus normal living expenses in Santo Domingo?)

A ?normal? person, from where I come in Europe, can save? hm?? maybe up to 10.000 pesos per month, if you really go Scrooge about your life. Most of my friends in my native country save nothing at all, which indeed was my situation before I left Europe.

So? just to buy the house and the car requires saving for 30 years? And the dream ends right there!

WHERE DID MY CALCULATION GO WRONG???


B. ?To check things out?

I just can not help making this comment?

Someone advised that one should go to DR for 3 to 6 months to check things out, before making the big move. Okey, good advise! ?if you are a student, unemployed or retired with a pension. But, what about the rest of us, with a job, a home, a dog etc! Which employer would allow you to leave for 6 months to check thing out in another country?

Or maybe I missed something here?
 

Chris

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Oct 21, 2002
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Voyager said:
I just can not help making this comment?

Someone advised that one should go to DR for 3 to 6 months to check things out, before making the big move. Okey, good advise! ?if you are a student, unemployed or retired with a pension. But, what about the rest of us, with a job, a home, a dog etc! Which employer would allow you to leave for 6 months to check thing out in another country?

Or maybe I missed something here?

I think what you missed, is that it is really expensive to move from country to country. It is not like it is the next county or state over - It is a different world with different values. Hence, save up and check it out yourself first.
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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Voyager,
I am curious what your investment vehiles are. It sounds to me that the only way you expect to accumulate money BEFORE you make the move is to put money directly into a savings account ( you mentioned saving the equivalent of 10,000 pesos per month at home in preperation for your move). Do you own property at home? Could you sell this property for a profit so you can bring a chunk of change with you or possibly rent it out in your absence creating a positive cash flow every month? Do you have IRA's or any other plans you can draw from or might you be getting a pension?

I agree that by solely putting money into the bank on a weekly basis, it would take a long time to accumulate enough to just pick up and move. You need to have other ways of accumulating money and creating cash flow.

Larry
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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Voyager said:
Please somebody straighten me out, cuz I am lost...

A. Living expenses

I am probably going to get ?corrected? now, but? I did some calculus and I just can?t help being confused! Let me show you!

First, to simplify comparisons, I have translated all figures into Dominican pesos, using the latest rate on this board. The calculation is meant to reflect the cost for one person. Okey ,here goes?

Earlier today, I called a Dominican friend in Santo Domingo and asked him for a typical price for a good apartment in a good neighbourhood. He said 2.000.000 pesos. Then I asked the price of a good car (=4WD Jeep type of car), that will take you through Santo Domingo traffic (incidentally, the worst traffic I have ever seen, and I have seen a lot!). He said 1.000.000 pesos.

About cost of living, people on this board have mentioned a wide variation of figures. Let me suggest an average of 50.000 pesos per month (that is for one person). That adds up to 600.000 pesos per year.

(A normal month for me includes restaurant 4 times, bar/pub at least 4 times, movie twice, concert/theater/show once. Is 50.000 pesos enough for that plus normal living expenses in Santo Domingo?)

A ?normal? person, from where I come in Europe, can save? hm?? maybe up to 10.000 pesos per month, if you really go Scrooge about your life. Most of my friends in my native country save nothing at all, which indeed was my situation before I left Europe.

So? just to buy the house and the car requires saving for 30 years? And the dream ends right there!

WHERE DID MY CALCULATION GO WRONG???


B. ?To check things out?

I just can not help making this comment?

Someone advised that one should go to DR for 3 to 6 months to check things out, before making the big move. Okey, good advise! ?if you are a student, unemployed or retired with a pension. But, what about the rest of us, with a job, a home, a dog etc! Which employer would allow you to leave for 6 months to check thing out in another country?

Or maybe I missed something here?

Apartment prices? This will be a very good source.
Super Casas

Car prices? This will be a very good source.
Super Carros

A good 2-4 year old jeep (Rav4, CRV, Tracker etc) you looking at anywhere from RD$400 - 800,000 depending on the condition. Buying Japanese is the only way to go. Anything else and you have rocks in your head!
Yes, cars are VERY expensive here.

RD$50,000 will be fine for normal living expenses if you own your car and house.

Good meal for 2: RD$1-2,000
Movies for 2 (tickets only): RD$250-300
1 sml Presidente beer (Colmado): RD$25-30
Food shopping (1 person and on tastes): RD$4-8,000
Gas per gal : RD$100 (+/- RD$10)
Phone + DSL: RD$2,200 (month)

The list goes on and on, all depends on your lifestyle.
 

andy a

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Feb 23, 2002
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So start saving.

Projecting price trends into the future, if it takes a million pesos to buy a car today that cost 3000 pesos thirty years ago, then 30 years from now the car will only cost 333 million pesos.

BTW, was the calculus you used differential or integral?
 

Voyager

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Mar 1, 2004
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Some comments on the replies so far...

To Chris:
Yeah, "really expensive" seems to be the summary about moving to DR! Tropical paradise, huh? Hm... For those who can afford it!

To Larry:
Savings is all I have, plus stocks (that are worth less than half of what I bought them for! I am such an investor... Aarrgghh!!!). No property, nothing like that! IRA? Is that the name of the pension plan in the USA? Yes, I do have a pension plan, that I can start using, 12 years from now...

Robert:
Thanks for the info! I checked the websites! Interesting! Even if my Spanish is really limited.

Andy A:
Hey, don't try to trick me now! Differential Calculus and Integral Calculus is basically the same thing, only two sides of the same coin. I guess I used "Different Calculus"! From 1 million to 333 million in 30 years, huh? Maybe I should invest in cars rather than stocks... :p
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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Voyager said:
.Someone advised that one should go to DR for 3 to 6 months to check things out, before making the big move. Okey, good advise! ?if you are a student, unemployed or retired with a pension. But, what about the rest of us, with a job, a home, a dog etc! Which employer would allow you to leave for 6 months to check thing out in another country?

Or maybe I missed something here?

I understand your problem. However you would be foolish to burn all your bridges and move to the DR without determining for yourself whether you can make a go of it. It isn't just the income questions you need to research for yourself, but also the lifestyle changes, etc.

Is there some reason why you must be in Santo Domingo? There are cheaper places to live.

Must you have a car? Expensive to buy and operate. My wife and I have lived in the DR since 1986 without one.

A lot depends on why you want to live in the DR and how much you want it.
 

BushBaby

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The biggest error in your calculus progression is that you used Santo Domingo as your start point!! If you had chosen somewhere like the North Coast, your projections could have been halved!!!

Get out & explore the north coast young man - forget the bright lights & busy streets!! Anyway, we have Escott up here & NO Robert (well, only on flying visits - he always goes back!!) so this has GOT to make the north 100% more environmentally prefferable!!! - Grahame.
 

Escott

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BushBaby said:
The biggest error in your calculus progression is that you used Santo Domingo as your start point!! If you had chosen somewhere like the North Coast, your projections could have been halved!!!

Get out & explore the north coast young man - forget the bright lights & busy streets!! Anyway, we have Escott up here & NO Robert (well, only on flying visits - he always goes back!!) so this has GOT to make the north 100% more environmentally prefferable!!! - Grahame.
Holy Batdoody! When the boss sees this he is going to think I logged on as Grahame!

It wasn't me, I swear, I was in Disneyland with minnie and micky as witnesses I swear!

Escott,
The kinder, gentler, reformed, smiling guy...
 

XanaduRanch

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Sep 15, 2002
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Escott said:
Holy Batdoody! When the boss sees this he is going to think I logged on as Grahame! It wasn't me, I swear, I was in Disneyland with minnie and micky as witnesses I swear! Escott, The kinder, gentler, reformed, smiling guy...
Reformed or not I am still not getting in a hot tub with you.

What I don't understand is how anyone could think they can live here, or anywhere, without an income? Dude. You gotta have some money coming in, no matter what the source, to be able to pay for beer. Or, food, or your apartment, or dinners with Scotty, etc.

What are you thinking?

Tom aka XR Middle age is when broadness of the mind and narrowness of the waist change places.
 

santanatwins

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no need for a car

If you find a central location 15 minutes walking distance to a supermarket, cleaners, pharmacy, bank, school, and hardware store you will eliminate 75% of your need for a car. The other 25% can be filled by taking a taxi. Most cab rides and bus rides will run you less than 70 pesos each way.

So save the money you plan on using to buy a car and have a few extra Presidentes.
 

Tony C

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santanatwins said:
If you find a central location 15 minutes walking distance to a supermarket, cleaners, pharmacy, bank, school, and hardware store you will eliminate 75% of your need for a car. The other 25% can be filled by taking a taxi. Most cab rides and bus rides will run you less than 70 pesos each way.

So save the money you plan on using to buy a car and have a few extra Presidentes.

Everything is a matter of lifestyle. I would never, ever live in the DR without my own car. Public transportation? Only if it is an emergency. a life or death emergency and even then only if it is mine.

With Real Estate being one of the last bastions of free-market capitalism why do you think that Property Values are so much higher in Santo Domingo than the North Coast? You North coaster love to beat your drum and bash Santo Domingo but face facts. The North Coast is a Cultural and social wasteland. A great place to get drunk and leer at skanks but nothing much else.
 

Voyager

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I appreciate the advise from all of you!

I guess my problem is that I am getting on a bit in age and I am more and more asking the "What if?" questions and I'm lesse and less willing to take risks... As I have said before, maybe DR is a place you move to if your are under 25 (and still have time to take chances) or over 60 (and have a steady pension coming in)

To Ken:
Spot on! Those are exactly the right questions to ask! It is so easy to fall into the trap of moving to quickly, without having agreed with oneself about the fundamental reasons why you are taking the action.

To BushBaby:
Yeas, I understand that the cost of living is much lower on the north coast. However, I am a big city man and have always been. I can easily see myself spending a weekend in a quiet place but to live there? What would I do?

By the way, isn't the job market for a guy like me much worse in, say, Puerto Plata, than in Santo Domingo?

You flatter me when you call me a "young man"... I am 48 and in a deep mid-life crisis! Aaarrgghhhh!!!

To XanaduRanch:
You are of course right! Some kind of income is of course preferable. But having studied this Message Board, I realize I have to be in DR to get a job or make an investment or whatever, that might generate an income. And I have to be able to survive until I get that income. I guess the thing is to get some cheap accomodation somewhere and then go jobhunting, whilst taking classes in Spanish... By the way, is dinners with this Scotty a pricy affair?

To Santanatwins:
Okey, see what you mean! You are of course right! However, an apartment in such a central location will be very expensive, no?
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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Voyager,
I am sorry but if you are 48 and cannot afford to buy an apartment then forget about it.
Larry
 

Voyager

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"Let's face the music and dance!"

Larry said:
Voyager,
I am sorry but if you are 48 and cannot afford to buy an apartment then forget about it.
Larry


Hm... I fear you just might be right, Larry! Geez!

Maybe I should mention that the main reasons for me desiring to move to DR are these:

1) A woman... She makes around 50.000 pesos a month in her present job in the military. Generally, she has such a good position in DR society that it makes more sense for me to move to her than the other way around.

2) Being a recovered burnout victim by the stress involved in working in business in Europe, I long to go to a place with a more relaxed lifestyle. Just like Willie Lomax, I am really beginning to feel tired! I will be more than happy to allow the younger guys to take my spot in the rat race!

Finally, I had chinese food last week and the note in the fortune cookie had this text: "Your confusion of the past will disappear in a day or two". Hm!?
 

Jerry K

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Fortune cookie!

Why didn't you tell us about that early on? That clears up this entire matter.
Call the aerodrome and book your passage now. You can't dispute the power of the fortune cookie.
Plus, a woman in the military making 50k a month, hold on to her!
 

Escott

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Tony C said:
Everything is a matter of lifestyle. I would never, ever live in the DR without my own car. Public transportation? Only if it is an emergency. a life or death emergency and even then only if it is mine.

With Real Estate being one of the last bastions of free-market capitalism why do you think that Property Values are so much higher in Santo Domingo than the North Coast? You North coaster love to beat your drum and bash Santo Domingo but face facts. The North Coast is a Cultural and social wasteland. A great place to get drunk and leer at skanks but nothing much else.
Hahaha, Tony C is such a trip. Everyone that lives in Sea Horse Ranch and El Choco (the real El Choco and not the imagined one) in million dollar homes are just here because it is cheap:) You are certainly a trip my friend. Glad you aren't an opinionated person without the first clue!
 

Chris

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Voyager said:
To Chris:
Yeah, "really expensive" seems to be the summary about moving to DR! Tropical paradise, huh? Hm... For those who can afford it!

Just to clarify - moving here is expensive. Living here can be very cheap, depending on the lifestyle that you choose. Actually, it all depends on the lifestyle that you choose. We could have turned up here with a backpack and our businesses, and still made a good living. The secret is an ongoing income in dollars or pounds or euros - a strong currency. It gets to be a total crapshoot if you depend on the Dominican economy to pay the bills and living expenses.
 

Voyager

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Thanks y'all!

Alright, I'm gonna mix myself a moonshine & tonic and digest the advise and comments of all of you. (By the way, I have always wondered if moonshine is what Bill Monroe is really, really singing about in "Blue Moon of Kentucky", considering the continuation of the text: "...keep on shining!" And "once in a blue moon" is the delivery dates, right? :cheeky:

Who knows what might happen? I might start an export business of Dominican Art? Or import of Australian wine? Or open a European style pub? Or just stay home and attend to the needs of my lady when she comes home from work...

Seeya!
 

santanatwins

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to the person that critizes the North

I'm not sure how old you are and why you hate the North so much. But I think the only thing Santo Domingo has to offer that the North doesn't is massive traffic.

The Shopping Malls might not be as big, but we have them
The Apartments might not be as luxurious, but we have some nice ones.
The resturants might not be as abundant, but we have many good ones.
The Presidentes might not be as cold....but they are cold enough.

As they say...to each his own. Don't knock the north just because it's more laid back then the south. Trust me, I'm from NYC, the biggest city this part of the world and there is no advantage to living in such a congested city. You might have more options for things to do and see, but after you do all there is to do, then what?
:smoke: