Spanglish the most often Heard and seen!

mariaobetsanov

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I have seen the Dominican mind=culture in many post. English is a language and a way of thinking. When one writes or speaks one language at the time is either Spanish or English. There no such thing as transparent in English please, above board. These phases are dead give way of a student language acquisition level. You can spend all your money in Carol Morgan, American School of Santo Domingo. It does not matter where the language is taught, but the teacher dedication to her/his students making it in the world of today.
I learn how to Speak and Write basic English within the first three years. But learning the culture takes a little more than the writing and reading, it is a change , thinking in the language been used.
 

MaineGirl

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que cool

I recently did a research project on Spanglish and if its usage increased comprehension and acquisition of the second language (in my case, the second language being taught was Spanish).

I've found that when my students are allowed to use Spanglish, they are infinitely more relaxed because the pressure if off to be "perfect" and they can express what they really mean. It has also been interesting to see some of my research subjects go from mostly English with a bit of Spanish to mostly Spanish with a bit of English. So, my conclusion for the project was that Spanglish helps teach kids how to speak and understand Spanish.

Incidently my methods of research were chatrooms I set up with my research subjects. We'd discuss anything that was appropriate, mostly pop culture. I was able to print the scripts and do the analysis. I'd also invite guests on to chat, one was a kid from Puerto Plata that I knew, and another was a physics teacher down in Peru. My Maine kids were pretty excited about that....they went straight to the maps to see where exactly the people were that they had chatted with.

So your Spanglish topic jumped right out at me and I hope you elaborate a bit on what you said.

With all my closest friends (los venezolanos), we speak Spanglish. It's amazing really, now we have languages with respective cultures behind them and the capacity to understand the entire thing. Some of our jokes make no sense to anyone else except Venezoyanquis :).
 

jsizemore

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spanglish maybe

There is not a word for word translation for many things between the two languages. When you try to translate it you are trying to translate the thought behind what was said so sometimes as a shortcut you will just blurt out which ever word of which ever language you can use.
Also sometimes it is used as a slang by teenagers to try to rebel a little from the adults.
My Spanish skills are so small I find myself useing and English word and then if the Spanish speakers know the word they correct me with the Spansih equivilant. Since a large number of words are similar in spelling and sound it usuallu works. It is not pretty but we cominicate that way. My limited knowlege of spanish with their limited knowlege of english make for some fun times.
So curruption of the spoken language is going to happen.
John
 

Voyager

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Interesting thread! Language is also a tool or "weapon", if you like, in a negotiation or to to manifest superiority. When I do business in Germany, for example, I always speak English during the negotiations so as not to provide an advantage to my counterpart.

However, during dinner at night, I might well speak German, because that will help in socializing and make my host feel more comfortable.

Language is one of my fears re. possibly moving to DR. I will effectively put myself at a disadvantage.
 

mariaobetsanov

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I like to start topics that will get you all thinking!

when writing on these board, I know that all the post are being generated by adults. Spanglist I find to be a heard thing to understand because you have to stop and figure out each time a new misuse appears.
I found that it takes generations even for those in the states, to use completely English. I have causins, nieces and nephews (Yorks) that are born US citizens, when they speak English, they have the Dominican mentality by their sentece constrution and usage. The words being use do not flow smoothly. They are thinking in Spanish and speaking in English. It takes up-to three generations for most immigrants and their ofsprings to make the complete tansition. I blame this problem on the common aceptance of Spanglish. This usage might be cute among the street urchin or getto child. I don't understand why does everybody wants to be getto? In the getto they are dying to get away, then everyboody imitates them. Job interviews rules out the getto child by first impression, here and everywhere else judgements are made in this manner.
In the employment section of DR1 there appears an ad he is looking for English translator, the salary offering is out of the question, it is even rediculous but his judgement of the usage is for the most part right on since he is use to getto mentality, This offer is of by a few zeros.
 
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jsizemore

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Generation

My family has on German ancestor over 8 generations back. We have slang that is used that is unique to our mounatin top and while I knew it was not proper english all my life I still use it at home. I found out after I met German speakers and talked about how it is hard for an outsider to understand the Hillbilly version of English and I started giving examples that I found out that with over 200 years seperation that the slang we were using was really the last of the German slipping down through time.
Remember modern English would be an antique Frenglish.
John
 

pati

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Eventhough your cousins were born in the US they may hesitate when speaking english because like many hispanic children they probably have parents who speak to them only in spanish. Therefore they don't learn english until they start to attend school. This in my opinion is why many hispanic children fall behind in school because not only are the children learning the basics for the first time but they have to learn the language as well.That and the lack of having someone who knows english to help them with homework.

I wouldn't blame spanglish on causing people to sound ghetto.You get that with english speaking people as well. Some people are ghetto.That's the way they like it and will always be that way.

I recently started to think about whether or not I should start using spanglish. I can understand more spanish than I can speak. I usually can not form a complete sentence. Since there are a few people I would like to communicate with but they speak about the same amount of english as I do spanish.I started to think if I spoke to them in spanglish it would cut down on the need to use "sign language" along with my 2 or 3 spanish words to get my point across.

I know it's a little off the topic but now you have me doubting whether or not I should take this approach to improving my spanish.
 

trina

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We often speak Spanglish in our home. While I generally try, if I start a sentence in Spanish, to say it all in Spanish, my son, who's 9, will start in Spanish and end in English. And typically, if he can't think of the word he's trying to say in Spanish or English, he calls it "vaina" (to the absolute horror of his Spanish teachers in Catholic school). I often wonder how detrimental this will be to my 2-year-old, whom we would like to be bilingual. He already understands both languages, but is only speaking English. I want to buy some cartoon videos in Spanish, so he has a little more exposure. Trying not to hijack the thread here, so if anyone has insight on this or knows where I can find Spanish Barney (OMG, Barney, you ask??? Save it... :speechles ;) ) videos or the like, please PM me.
 

trina

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pati said:
Eventhough your cousins were born in the US they may hesitate when speaking english because like many hispanic children they probably have parents who speak to them only in spanish. Therefore they don't learn english until they start to attend school. This in my opinion is why many hispanic children fall behind in school because not only are the children learning the basics for the first time but they have to learn the language as well.That and the lack of having someone who knows english to help them with homework.

I wouldn't blame spanglish on causing people to sound ghetto.You get that with english speaking people as well. Some people are ghetto.That's the way they like it and will always be that way.

I recently started to think about whether or not I should start using spanglish. I can understand more spanish than I can speak. I usually can not form a complete sentence. Since there are a few people I would like to communicate with but they speak about the same amount of english as I do spanish.I started to think if I spoke to them in spanglish it would cut down on the need to use "sign language" along with my 2 or 3 spanish words to get my point across.

I know it's a little off the topic but now you have me doubting whether or not I should take this approach to improving my spanish.


Pati, speaking from experience, I only learned because I tried, all the time. I was determined to learn, so I spoke without knowing how to say things, and was corrected. My husband still corrects me 10 times a day... Ask your husband to speak to you more in Spanish...try reading Spanish books and keep a dictionary handy...watch Spanish TV...if you know any Spanish children, make friends with them, they are the best teachers!

Good luck!
 

MaineGirl

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Trina, if you have a DVD player, just rent any Disney film and switch the language!

I do this with my high school students. The only problem is when we put both the language and the sub titles in Spanish. It became readily apparent that the two were not the same script so it didn't help them visualize the words. We just watched Finding Nemo, it was a riot.

Personally I feel Spanglish is going to keep evolving and before you know it will be in widespread use. I hear smatterings of Spanish every day even in rural Maine. In VA where I used to live, it was always a big mix!
 
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trina

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That's a great idea, MG...we rent videos so rarely that I'd forgotten that was even an option. I'll probably buy as opposed to rent, because Dominic only watches Barney, Disney, and Blues Clues, all day long. Plus it's worth it if we're going to have another baby sometime in the future...they're easy to sell afterwards!

FINDING NEMO is my favorite. I love that video, have watched it at least a dozen times!
 

Forbeca

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Language as a weapon - I like that

I agree, you should always put your best foot forward. When negotiating, or when in a difficult situation, it is to your advantage to come across intelligent and businesslike. If you are doing business in another country, it will be very foolish to try to "connect" with your respective customers by using their language, this will only diminish your stance. Best to have a translator nearby until you get that contract signed!

Maria I can certainly appreciate what you're saying, but I don't agree that everyone wants to be getto, (your words). I'd say this attitute is most prevalent in the younger uneducated crowd. They think it's a cool way of speaking, and they have all the other idiots imitating them. Go figure, like my grandmother used to say, "El buen ejemplo casi nunca se copia."



Voyager said:
Interesting thread! Language is also a tool or "weapon", if you like, in a negotiation or to to manifest superiority. When I do business in Germany, for example, I always speak English during the negotiations so as not to provide an advantage to my counterpart.

However, during dinner at night, I might well speak German, because that will help in socializing and make my host feel more comfortable.

Language is one of my fears re. possibly moving to DR. I will effectively put myself at a disadvantage.
 

Fiesta Mama

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Trina, I agree with you 100%! I have friends in the DR who, if it were not for me speaking Spanglish, I could not communicate with them because they do not speak English. The most important thing for me in becoming fluent in Spanish has been trying to speak what you know whenever possible - don't be shy because people will admire you for trying and as most of us know, Domincans are the most patient, appreciative people I know when it comes to effort in their language. Eventually, with patience and effort, Spanglish will help you to become properly fluent in Spanish or English.



trina said:
Pati, speaking from experience, I only learned because I tried, all the time. I was determined to learn, so I spoke without knowing how to say things, and was corrected. My husband still corrects me 10 times a day... Ask your husband to speak to you more in Spanish...try reading Spanish books and keep a dictionary handy...watch Spanish TV...if you know any Spanish children, make friends with them, they are the best teachers!

Good luck!
 

Marianopolita

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Based on some discussions...my question is...

This to everyone who believes in using Spanglish for whatever reason. My question is:

Doesn't Spanglish jeopardize the survival of the language? In this case I am referring to Spanish because English is the most widely spoken lingua franca so I don't think the survival of English would be in jeopardy. The quality yes but that's a whole different issue. Spanish overtime will lose it's authenticity.

On personal level I think Spanglish is horrible especially if people who are fluent in both English and Spanish speak it. I am still not able to comprehend why people insist on mixing the two when they are capable of speaking both languages well.

I also noticed that those who choose to speak this variation once they begin they find it hard to stop and if they have children they speak the same way. I don't know my friends I am for 100% Spanish or 100% English at all times except for scenarios as you have all mentioned the most common ones being when it involves learning or survival skills.

Para los que puedan entender: realmente "el Spanglish" me suena feo y a veces es muy dif?cil de entender. Creo que hay que tomar en cuenta c?mo y cu?ndo se usa. Por ejemplo en el diario vivir quiz?s sea aceptable pero a nivel profesional ni pensar.

That's just me but to each his own.

Chao,

LDG

Fiesta Mama said:
Trina, I agree with you 100%! I have friends in the DR who, if it were not for me speaking Spanglish, I could not communicate with them because they do not speak English. The most important thing for me in becoming fluent in Spanish has been trying to speak what you know whenever possible - don't be shy because people will admire you for trying and as most of us know, Domincans are the most patient, appreciative people I know when it comes to effort in their language. Eventually, with patience and effort, Spanglish will help you to become properly fluent in Spanish or English.
 
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trina

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I do agree with you, Leslie. Sometimes I need to use Spanglish for lack of knowing the correct Spanish word to use, and that reinforces your "Spanglish for Learning" theory. I correct my son all the time for speaking Spanglish because his first language is Spanish (stepson, born and raised to the age of 7 in the DR), but he's in a Spanish/English bilingual school, and when Spanglish is so widely spoken in the class, it's like validation to them that it's okay to use. It's an old trick that's hard to change, especially because it has become so widely used. I just hope my 2-year-old will learn both languages, and not select words from each to mix.
 

micurie

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help for spanglish thesis

Hi,i'm an italian student living near Florence, i need help from someone who can send me by e-mail something about spanglish(literature).In fact i have the final thesis on this subject that I chose( i have studied English and Ispanic languages and I think this could be a good subject for me) because i believe this aspect of languages to be one of the most interesting and fashionable! i'm looking for some literature,or downloadble text in spanglish, pure spanglish so to analyze it on my thesis, and to understand the processes of this language.Please help me!!!my e-mail is: micurie@yahoo.it , i will be forver your friend!!!!thanks a lot for this space and excuse me for this visit.Your,Mirko

mariaobetsanov said:
I have seen the Dominican mind=culture in many post. English is a language and a way of thinking. When one writes or speaks one language at the time is either Spanish or English. There no such thing as transparent in English please, above board. These phases are dead give way of a student language acquisition level. You can spend all your money in Carol Morgan, American School of Santo Domingo. It does not matter where the language is taught, but the teacher dedication to her/his students making it in the world of today.
I learn how to Speak and Write basic English within the first three years. But learning the culture takes a little more than the writing and reading, it is a change , thinking in the language been used.
 

Criss Colon

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"Spanglish",is akin to "Ebonics"! And like "ESL" has hurt rather than helped!

Immigrants to the US from the 1890s until the 1960s,learned to speak "American"!When the "English as a Second Language"(ESL) crowd came along,the children of immigrants stopped learning English.ESL was supposed to be a "crutch" to English so the children could keep up academically,while learning to speak English.It has turned out to be a "K thru 12" system of forever dashing the hopes of anyone to ever learn English,and find good employment."Spanglish" is worse!CCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Pib

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micurie said:
pure spanglish
There's a good oxymoron if there was ever one. There can't be 'pure' Spanglish because Spanglish is by definition 'impure'. It is the unholy offspring of Spanish and English.

I know that languages, if alive, are constantly changing, developing, and expanding. Even Latin, a language on life support, so to speak, is still adding new vocabulary to describe objects and actions unknown in the time of the Roman Empire. In the case of Spanglish, I have to admit with deep sorrow, that I just can't take it. It sounds like a nail on a blackboard. Irritating.

I don?t mind that once in a while, for lack of better words, you drop a ?foreign? word when everybody knows that other language, or word. We do that very often, after all a bit of 'schadenfreude.' adds ?joie de vivre? to our not-always ?dolce vita?. But I am a snob like that. Speak to me in Spanish or English. I can forgive you the bad Spanish (or English since I am guilty of that myself), but if you ever come to me with something like ?no me yomp? en la furnitur que me la breikea?* I may run screaming.




Credit to Hillbilly for that one.
 
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Criss Colon said:
ESL was supposed to be a "crutch" to English so the children could keep up academically,while learning to speak English.It has turned out to be a "K thru 12" system of forever dashing the hopes of anyone to ever learn English,and find good employment."Spanglish" is worse!CCCCCCCCCCCC
What does ESL have to do with spanglish? Do they teach spanglish in ESL classes?

ESL has progressed while you weren't looking, Criss. Too many Puerto Rican adults functionally illiterate in both languages. The modern system has instruction in English with, essentially, tutoring in Spanish. At the end of the day, it's sink or swim in English.

As for the issue of spanglish, it's neither a language, a pidgin nor a creole. It's the transitional use of a prime language - like "trade chinese". It has a long way to go to become even a creole (like achieving a culturally identifiable geographic group that speaks and writes it in a uniform manner for at least a generation).
 
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Tordok

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
What does ESL have to do with spanglish? Do they teach spanglish in ESL classes?

ESL has progressed while you weren't looking, Criss. Too many Puerto Rican adults functionally illiterate in both languages. The modern system has instruction in English with, essentially, tutoring in Spanish. At the end of the day, it's sink or swim in English.

As for the issue of spanglish, it's neither a language, a pidgeon nor a creole. It's the transitional use of a prime language - like "trade chinese". It has a long way to go to become even a creole (like achieving a culturally identifiable geographic group that speaks and writes it in a uniform manner for at least a generation).


I'm no linguist but the verdict may still be pending with regards to whether Spanglish would qualify as a "language". If you go to amazon.com or do a Google search on the word Spanglish, you will find that there is even a so-called "Spanglish literature", which includes poetry, narrative, even medical Spanglish dictionaries. What for some may be a transitional tool, for others - maybe the ghetto-types described elsewhere on this thread - it may very well be the main form of verbal communication on a daily basis.Some people - there is some scholarship on this issue- seem to think that this is a cool phenomenon. They see it as a valuable form of expression for a special category of people. As if somehow speaking in an unintelligible patois gives one an identity to feel proud of.

Even though languages were meant to change over time and places, it is clear that this mixing of two well-established and complex languages is a poor substitute for learning either one, or both of them well. This Spanglish culture does not travel well into either the mainstream Anglo-Saxon or the mainstream Spanish/Latin American culture. It seems to me a disservice to children that have migrated to a country with another language to deprive them of the proper uses of the local language by allowing a substandard form of isolationist creolization to prevail. Schools and parents are equally responsible to make sure that children under their care learn at least one language well, which is much more valuable than this Spanglish. Not knowing English but proper Spanish instead only, is still better than using this Spanglish.

Perhaps against his instincts, my son nonetheless has been taught to speak, read and write in both Spanish and English here in the U.S. He is very clear about the proper use of both, and he knows that Spanglish is unacceptable in our home or in our interactions with others in either language. The fact that we don't know anyone who speaks this way may explain why we all laugh when it is ocassionally used on tv or in the movies.

- Tordok