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  1. #1
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    Cool The Adventure Begins.......

    As many of you know, I recently purchased a rather large farm near Puerto Plata. Special thanks to ALL you DR1 ers who made this possible with your highly informative insites on ALL aspects of Dominican life and culture.
    Robert for making the website possible.....Hillbilly for his no nonsense advice....Grahame for financial insights....Scott, Hmmm for something or other
    Dawnwill for being my true kindred spirit with whom I can freely discuss anything.....and hundreds more

    My intent is to spend the rest of my life developing this farm into a mostly self suffecient, state of the art production facility for ALL MANNER of food products, fruits, vegetables, meat products to include fresh fish fillet.
    My object is to thoroughly enjoy my life, demonstrate how to most effectively utilize dominican farmland while wasting NOTHING and being a boon to my neighbors and community. (Not necessarily for profit)

    Soooooooo.......my friends, I need your help and advice...BIGTIME !!
    for many years to come......

    Immediate questions:

    I have seen used (probably rejected for further ocean use) steel shipping containers being utilized at construction sites, etc. for secure storage.
    Where do I go and whom do I contact to possibly buy or rent one or two of these? What price range do they usually sell for?

    My plan is to ship one or two semi loads of household goods, tools and farm equipment of ALL descriptions by container in the near future. Hopefully, I qualify for duty free exemption as my initial residency will be complete in a week or so and I now own a rather large farm in DR. PLEASE...PM me with any and all comments, tips, referrals for custom brokers, etc. MUCH APPRECIATED !

    Is there a KUBOTA farm tractor dealer in Santiago? I need one or two large, new four wheel drive farm tractors (50 HP or larger) with end loader, bush hogs, disc plows, box blades etc.

    I need one new Dihatsu diesel farm hydraulic dump truck like is commonly seen all over DR. Where and how do you suggest I get the best price?

    The farm is in four parcels, all adjoining, with excellent old survey maps dating back as early as 1932. I am a civil engineer so I can tell you that these maps are expertly done with great precision. A month ago I hired a dominican engineer to survey the outer bounderies of my property, locate and mark all turning points with concrete or rebar point markers and draw one new survey map which is to be recorded in public records. Having run a survey crew for several years in Florida, I expected and thought it understood that he was to accurately reestablish the old historic points, set new markers where old ones could not be found, etc. NOT EVEN CLOSE !!
    His first move was to hire my man from the farm who has lived there for some three years to "show him the boundaries of the farm". This engineer then proceeds to set markers based on directions from my farm hand. He then plots with computer assistance the "new" corners and turns on the first draft version of a survey map. At my insistence, he then overlays with computer assistance, his new map with info from the old maps. WELL HELL !! The lines miss each other from a few feet to as much as two or three hundred feet. Further inspection reveals that he has effectively given away a couple miles of prime river frontage by moving the property line some 900 feet back from the river where the old surveys show property line as middle of river. Over 60 or 70 years some three miles of fence has been moved about 50 to 100 feet onto my property. His explanation is that, "it's all my farm hand's fault because he showed him the wrong property lines." The engineer speaks NO ENGLISH and I speak very limited Spanish....but with a translater we had a rather heated discussion and he agrees to "do it my way". My way is to set duplicate markers agreeing with the historic surveys. So far I have paid him half of the 110,000 peso fee agreed upon. I very much need ACCURATE markers along which to build probably $30,000 worth of new boundary fence.
    QUESTIONS:
    Am I obligated to pay this YAHOO registered engineer for the priveledge of survey mapping my farm based on what "my farm hand" tells him instead of accepted engineering practice of reading and reestablishing the clearly defined historic points for which I am paying him?

    His classic comments have been. "Juan showed me the wrong line !"
    "What is your problem? You always have the old historic survey maps to prove you own the land !" Effectively, this #&&#&&# is setting me up for a case in court in the future attempting to disprove his inaccurate new survey map by utilizing the old historic maps when my neighbors try to claim some 150 to 200 tareas of my land utilizing the new survey map on public record.
    (It's not on public record yet.....Thank God !....but would have been had I not caught on to what he was doing!)

    Thanks for ANY thoughts or observations.......I must soon return to DR to see what he has done........IF ANYTHING !

    Caribee........................Lloyd

  2. #2
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    Jun 2003
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    Being a angeneer yourself, I thought you would at least interview this guy before hiring him. Did you do that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Caribee
    As many of you know, I recently purchased a rather large farm near Puerto Plata. Special thanks to ALL you DR1 ers who made this possible with your highly informative insites on ALL aspects of Dominican life and culture.
    Robert for making the website possible.....Hillbilly for his no nonsense advice....Grahame for financial insights....Scott, Hmmm for something or other
    Dawnwill for being my true kindred spirit with whom I can freely discuss anything.....and hundreds more

    My intent is to spend the rest of my life developing this farm into a mostly self suffecient, state of the art production facility for ALL MANNER of food products, fruits, vegetables, meat products to include fresh fish fillet.
    My object is to thoroughly enjoy my life, demonstrate how to most effectively utilize dominican farmland while wasting NOTHING and being a boon to my neighbors and community. (Not necessarily for profit)

    Soooooooo.......my friends, I need your help and advice...BIGTIME !!
    for many years to come......

    Immediate questions:

    I have seen used (probably rejected for further ocean use) steel shipping containers being utilized at construction sites, etc. for secure storage.
    Where do I go and whom do I contact to possibly buy or rent one or two of these? What price range do they usually sell for?

    My plan is to ship one or two semi loads of household goods, tools and farm equipment of ALL descriptions by container in the near future. Hopefully, I qualify for duty free exemption as my initial residency will be complete in a week or so and I now own a rather large farm in DR. PLEASE...PM me with any and all comments, tips, referrals for custom brokers, etc. MUCH APPRECIATED !

    Is there a KUBOTA farm tractor dealer in Santiago? I need one or two large, new four wheel drive farm tractors (50 HP or larger) with end loader, bush hogs, disc plows, box blades etc.

    I need one new Dihatsu diesel farm hydraulic dump truck like is commonly seen all over DR. Where and how do you suggest I get the best price?

    The farm is in four parcels, all adjoining, with excellent old survey maps dating back as early as 1932. I am a civil engineer so I can tell you that these maps are expertly done with great precision. A month ago I hired a dominican engineer to survey the outer bounderies of my property, locate and mark all turning points with concrete or rebar point markers and draw one new survey map which is to be recorded in public records. Having run a survey crew for several years in Florida, I expected and thought it understood that he was to accurately reestablish the old historic points, set new markers where old ones could not be found, etc. NOT EVEN CLOSE !!
    His first move was to hire my man from the farm who has lived there for some three years to "show him the boundaries of the farm". This engineer then proceeds to set markers based on directions from my farm hand. He then plots with computer assistance the "new" corners and turns on the first draft version of a survey map. At my insistence, he then overlays with computer assistance, his new map with info from the old maps. WELL HELL !! The lines miss each other from a few feet to as much as two or three hundred feet. Further inspection reveals that he has effectively given away a couple miles of prime river frontage by moving the property line some 900 feet back from the river where the old surveys show property line as middle of river. Over 60 or 70 years some three miles of fence has been moved about 50 to 100 feet onto my property. His explanation is that, "it's all my farm hand's fault because he showed him the wrong property lines." The engineer speaks NO ENGLISH and I speak very limited Spanish....but with a translater we had a rather heated discussion and he agrees to "do it my way". My way is to set duplicate markers agreeing with the historic surveys. So far I have paid him half of the 110,000 peso fee agreed upon. I very much need ACCURATE markers along which to build probably $30,000 worth of new boundary fence.
    QUESTIONS:
    Am I obligated to pay this YAHOO registered engineer for the priveledge of survey mapping my farm based on what "my farm hand" tells him instead of accepted engineering practice of reading and reestablishing the clearly defined historic points for which I am paying him?

    His classic comments have been. "Juan showed me the wrong line !"
    "What is your problem? You always have the old historic survey maps to prove you own the land !" Effectively, this #&&#&&# is setting me up for a case in court in the future attempting to disprove his inaccurate new survey map by utilizing the old historic maps when my neighbors try to claim some 150 to 200 tareas of my land utilizing the new survey map on public record.
    (It's not on public record yet.....Thank God !....but would have been had I not caught on to what he was doing!)

    Thanks for ANY thoughts or observations.......I must soon return to DR to see what he has done........IF ANYTHING !

    Caribee........................Lloyd

  3. #3
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    May 2002
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    Who is your realtor, law firm and the engineer??
    A good realtor or law office wouldn't even close a deal for you if they wouldn't be sure that you use a good survey company. They would have checked on this before the purchase.

    Good luck with your farm, sound's like a nice but ambitious project.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2002
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    Default I think I would kiss the RD$50K good bye and hire

    Lorenzo Casanovas from Santiago or Manuel Bonnelly. How is this for a reputation: I, HB, would stake my life on the accuracy of their work. they are that good. In fact, it was probably Casanovas that did the first surveys...
    Lorenzo Casanova C x A : 247 3593
    Manuel Bonnelly: 582 1748

    While ther might be others these two have done work for me and they are of the "old"school.

    HB

  5. #5
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    Feb 2004
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    Default Used Containers

    Since you're shipping a large quantity of household gooods in the near future, I assume you want to buy the used container close to home. Here's a link to one company that sells them.

    Used containers are also offered for sale on EBay.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2004
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    Default Caribee (aka Llyond) - my dos centavos

    Now I will first state that I am not familiar with DR surveying practices... BUT I will give you the knowledge I do have with respect to surveying and the purchase of land in Canada. Most lawyers in Canada (when acting for the purchaser) would require that an up-to-date survey be done on a piece of property prior to the sale of any such property (this is done to avoid the problems you are now having... determining the property boundary). That being said, an up-to-date survey is one which obviously shows up-to-date land boundaries, as well as any rights-of-ways, buildings, trees, bushes, fences, etc. which may have been erected on the property since the last survey was done on the property. Any legitimate surveyor would easily be able to map out the proper survey perimiters using a metes and bounds description or compass directions (especially with the existence of a previous survey/deed) and would NOT need the assistance of a "farm hand". In fact the practice which you have described is utterly unheard of as far as accuracy goes. There is no way the property lines should be off by the distances you have indicated. I would take heed with Hillybilly's advice and cut your losses now and hire a new surveyor! Whatever you do, don't register any new survey on title until you are satisfied that it accurately represents your property. You are lucky in one sense in that you are having the survey done after you have purchased the property because had it been done before, it most likely would have been registered on title before the property was transfered to you (whether it was accurate or not and then you would be left to prove the "on title" survey was inaccurate)!
    Last edited by Fiesta Mama; 05-07-2004 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Typo

  7. #7
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    First lesson in the DR - never ever hire anyone to do work for you, unless you have good references from people you can trust regarding the person and his/her work. Negotiate with your first surveyor and pay him something. Then let him go. Then take HB's recommendation and work with a reputable surveyor. I trust you have a good attorney as well - you will need him/her.

    I would love to see your farm. Good luck. One of the lessons that I've learnt since we've lived here (only going on two years now), is to use reputable professionals for professional work. You pay a little more, but the problems simply disappear.

    My neighbor has one 40 ft container (pretty rusted out) hanging around. I'll ask him if he wants to sell it, or rent it....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by corecto
    Being a angeneer yourself, I thought you would at least interview this guy before hiring him. Did you do that?
    Utilizing a trusted friend to intrepret, I interviewed him to determine that he was a registered engineer in DR, and (I thought) understood that I wanted the lines (so precisely defined by the old surveys) determined and marked with fresh new concrete markers where old ones could not be found. He, on his own, obtained excellent copies of the four old surveys plus a larger area control survey map with which to work. Given that he was all smiles and in apparent total agreement with all my requests....I ASSUMED he would do a competent job and handed over half the agreed on $110,000 RD. WRONG!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mido
    Who is your realtor, law firm and the engineer??
    A good realtor or law office wouldn't even close a deal for you if they wouldn't be sure that you use a good survey company. They would have checked on this before the purchase.

    Good luck with your farm, sound's like a nice but ambitious project.
    Lifes experience has taught me to ALMOST NEVER name names and tell negative stories same time......BUT..... There was no realtor involved. I found the property completely on my own. The attorney I hired did (in my opinion) an excellent job tracing down 7 heirs in three countries and getting ALL to agree and sign off on the contract to purchase. My attorney pretty much took direction from me on exactly how to proceed. I utilized every scrap of info I could find on the internet on "How to proceed with land purchase in DR". I decided to proceed without a fresh survey, given that I had the four OLD EXCELLENT survey maps in hand. My attorney, however, strongly suggested that a fresh survey be done. I somewhat reluctlantly agreed but instructed her to IN NO WAY slow up the purchase process to wait upon a finished survey because I got what I perceive to be a "great deal" on the purchase....and any delay risked the possibility that any ONE HEIR would change their mind mid process and screw up the entire purchase.
    BOTTOM LINE.....The boggled up survey was my fault and not my attorney's or real estate agents. NOTHING, BUT NOTHING in life is completely perfect and fool proof and often you must take some risks to accomplish what is worthwhile.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=Hillbilly]Lorenzo Casanovas from Santiago or Manuel Bonnelly. How is this for a reputation: I, HB, would stake my life on the accuracy of their work. they are that good. In fact, it was probably Casanovas that did the first surveys...
    Lorenzo Casanova C x A : 247 3593
    Manuel Bonnelly: 582 1748

    While ther might be others these two have done work for me and they are of the "old"school.

    Thanks so much for the above references....MUCH APPRECIATED !!
    As soon as I can get to it I will contact them and finish the survey project.

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