African-Americans traveling to the DR

Bobo · May 12, 2004

My wife and I are planning a trip to the DR at the recommendation of a co-worker who recently visited. I have been researching the country--on websites such as this--and now have some concerns about going. I have read several posts that suggests that there might be some racial issues in the DR. I did not know much about the country until recently but from what I have been reading I have the impression that darker-skin people in the DR occupy the lower rungs of society and lighter-skin people typically occupy the top rungs of society and are generally more favored over darker-skin people. My concern is that (and it seems wierd to even be talking about this kind of thing) because I have dark skin I will recieve unfavorable and inhospitable treatment by Dominicans. Will the color of my skin affect how I am treated (viewed) in the DR? Is it true the lighter skin people (or white people) are treated more favorably?

Also, I read that the population of the DR is comprised of "75% mulattos", "15% white", and "10% black". I am confused by this. The term "mulatto" just describes a person of mixed parentage, typically black and white. In the US this type of person would commonly be viewed as just "black". The term mulatto is almost never even used in the US. Plus, I was always taught that the term "mulatto" was a derogatory term. So, I am somewhat surprised that Dominicans refer to themselves as "mulatto." What is the origin of the racial classifications in the DR (specifically, how did "mulattos" come to be viewed as being "different" than "black")?

I would appreciate all honest responses as I am close to booking my vacation and need to know if I should continue with my plan to visit the DR or consider another vacation destination.

Fiesta Mama · May 12, 2004

Book your trip!

Hi Bobo. I know there have been many discussions and comments on DR1 about race issues in the DR and although some DR1 members seem to constantly make racial comments about "darker" skinned Dominicans, please don't listen to them. While it may be true that in the hierarchy of the country "pale" skinned people (typically of Spanish ancestory) seem to occupy a lot of the higher paying jobs, you will not find the Dominicans you will be dealing with to be racist at all. I don't know enough about the country and their race issues to explain the reason for this and I'm sure someone else will give you the scoop. In general Dominicans are the most friendly welcoming people you will come accross. You will be at a resort (I assume) and will be welcomed with open arms just like all the other tourists. As for mulatto people in the U.S. being of mixed white and black parentage, in the DR the mix is somewhat more complex and perhaps that is reason for the wide usage of the term. A lot of people have Spanish and Taino heritage as well as perhaps African, Caucasian, etc. Contrary to the DR being racist, in my visits to the DR I have actually found it to be one of the least racist countries and the people more accepting than anywhere I have ever travelled (including the U.S.). Although the aristocratic families of the country (most being "pale" skinned) will typically not be found to be associating with the lower classes (typically "darker" skinned), this is not unique to the DR as you will find this hierarchy in most countries of the world. Sorry to babble on but I am trying to say, book your trip, enjoy and I am sure you will be shown the respect you deserve.

Ladybird · May 12, 2004

Go Fiesta Mama

and "they" tried to teach you Mama.. tee hee, Bobo, having travelled a lot and lived in many countries I can support what mama says, this must be 1 of the least prejudiced countries I have been to, Im glad to say, and the world is in a bit of a mess because of such. The people here are lovely and most welcoming although if you really want to see DR try to avoid AI.

trilingual · May 12, 2004

You have brought up a very interesting point. Though it is sad that the natives of the country have to deal with race issues like that, I'm sure that as tourists to the area, we will be fortunate enough to be exempt from that treatment. Especially because in most third world countries/vacation destinations, anyone from America, to them, means $$$$.

So while it is something worthwhile to contemplate on and to be empathetic to the people of DR about, I'm sure that during your vacation you will have nothing to worry about.

Enjoy!!!

Oche · May 12, 2004

You will not be discriminated at all, instead you'll feel so much comfortable that it will confusing. Sadly there are a lot of ignorant people on the DR, and due to this some people can get very easily surprised or perhaps even annoyed in some way for seeing or interacting with "Black" educated tourists because they are not used to see this, as you reckoned correctly, unfortunately the bulk of the dominican black race are uneducated and occupy the lower rungs of dominican society, for that and other historical reasons is why you might find in appearance that there is a "racial issue", but once you know the social history of this country you can realize that this supposed racial discrimination against blacks has its roots in the dominican indifference towards haitian community as well as in the "inferiority complex" that we dominicans have been carrying along since the birth of this nation. Explaining and understanding the origins of the "racial classifications" in the DR will take sometime regardless of the historical point of view from which you would like to review or study it. Again i encourage you to visit the DR and judge for yourself, i'm sure you'll find us dominicans as very friendly people.

Rattus_Rattus · May 12, 2004

Hello hello Bobo

Me and my woman have never had any problems in DR. My woman is "black", and i am "white".

Why should anyone care what kind of skincolour a person have.
The most important is to show the world we are happy and can live toghether in harmony....

Come to DR and have a good vacation... :classic:

2Good · May 12, 2004

I must concur. I have never felt any hint of racism during my many travels to the DR. But, if you look for it I'm sure you will find it. I drove across the US several years(1982) ago and vowed never again. In your face racism. As a black man, I do not vacation in America. I enjoy the freedom of a country where your main restriction is economical. If you can't afford it, stay home.

As for the other point that you mention, being black in america presents a very unique and artifical classification. In most countries, ancestrial heritage was preserved within the culture. Therefore, you can have race based categories. In the US that was not the case. I consider myself black you consider yourself as african american. By the way, the US census now includes the category "other" to include multi-racial people. I had misconceptions about the DR before my first trip. When I arrived in Santo Domingo, all I saw black folks speaking spanish. LOL But the population breakdown according race led me to believe different. The people incllude the full spectrum of hues, just as people of african origins in the US. Ihave seen many changes come about since I have been travelling there. Expanded educational opportunities creates better economic opportunities. Again, I always enjoy myself there. As it was said, book your flight and prepare to have a wonderful time.

toneloc24 · May 12, 2004

Man, just book the trip!!!!

I'm black as well, born in NYC of parents from two different Caribbean islands.

Here's my advice: unless being in a predominantly-Spanish speaking country would really bother you or your wife, just go and have a great experience.

I've only been there 4x so far, so I'm no expert. I usually travel alone, perfect opportunity to experience things. My Spanish is basic +, but improving. I've never encountered any racial issues, just the curious "is he dominican or a gringo?" stares from the locals. There may be some "Montana or Idaho" spots on the island, of which I'm unaware, as well as a spot or two in Santo Domingo, but I'm pretty sure you will never encounter them. If you're in a resort town, you'll be fine.

I wouldn't read too much into the 75%/15%/10% thing. Having been to various parts of Brasil, they have so many ways (like 10) of distinguishing themselves from each other, but in the end, they all agree they are Brasilian. While I'm sure there is also racial issues in la RD, the more prominent issue would be rich/poor. You, my friend, would be classified as rich, and I know nothing about you.

It's a cool island to getaway to, with very warm people. As with anything/anywhere, there will be a few people/events to contradict that, but not enough to cancel a trip there. If you're into watersports, or nature tours, ask your resort or hotel. Or go into town and book it yourself for much cheaper.

If you are booking at a resort or hotel, you'll be treated with the utmost respect. I would advise you to leave the resort a few times, and check out the local culture as well. You'll be shocked at how cheap things are there, and how people will welcome you. In Sosua, at the beach, you will get asked several times to stop in the little shops to check out the great deals. Use your own discretion, and try to negotiate with most things. Just be wary if something sounds too good.

Of the above, none of this bothers me enough to stop booking a trip there every other month. Go down there with a cool mindstate and you'll both have a great experience.

Let us know how things work out for you. Best of luck!!!

BrothaNature · May 13, 2004

toneloc24 said:
I'm black as well, born in NYC of parents from two different Caribbean islands.

Here's my advice: unless being in a predominantly-Spanish speaking country would really bother you or your wife, just go and have a great experience.

I've only been there 4x so far, so I'm no expert. I usually travel alone, perfect opportunity to experience things. My Spanish is basic +, but improving. I've never encountered any racial issues, just the curious "is he dominican or a gringo?" stares from the locals. There may be some "Montana or Idaho" spots on the island, of which I'm unaware, as well as a spot or two in Santo Domingo, but I'm pretty sure you will never encounter them. If you're in a resort town, you'll be fine.

I wouldn't read too much into the 75%/15%/10% thing. Having been to various parts of Brasil, they have so many ways (like 10) of distinguishing themselves from each other, but in the end, they all agree they are Brasilian. While I'm sure there is also racial issues in la RD, the more prominent issue would be rich/poor. You, my friend, would be classified as rich, and I know nothing about you.

It's a cool island to getaway to, with very warm people. As with anything/anywhere, there will be a few people/events to contradict that, but not enough to cancel a trip there. If you're into watersports, or nature tours, ask your resort or hotel. Or go into town and book it yourself for much cheaper.

If you are booking at a resort or hotel, you'll be treated with the utmost respect. I would advise you to leave the resort a few times, and check out the local culture as well. You'll be shocked at how cheap things are there, and how people will welcome you. In Sosua, at the beach, you will get asked several times to stop in the little shops to check out the great deals. Use your own discretion, and try to negotiate with most things. Just be wary if something sounds too good.

Of the above, none of this bothers me enough to stop booking a trip there every other month. Go down there with a cool mindstate and you'll both have a great experience.

Let us know how things work out for you. Best of luck!!!

I am under the impressions that if people go farther away from their resorts, wouldnt it be wise to know basic conversational spansih?

Festero · May 13, 2004

Not to worry. When I lived there I dated a black Canadian girl (who also lived there) who indicated the only reactions she received related to her skin color were the confused locals who couldn't understand why she couldn't speak Spanish well!

If you are just vacationing and not involved in high level business and socializing among the DR's wealthiest families you will never risk encountering any of the class/color issues you have read about.

ERICKXSON · May 13, 2004

Let me add my 2 cents (BOOK YOUR FLIGHT) and forget about colors, beside this country have more than 10,000 color shades and too many mixtures to count in addition you will blend easily with the population and will go home with a beautifull experience.

ERICKXSON

JanH · May 13, 2004

Bobo - My observations as a tourist/property owner on the north coast are the black tourists are treated no differently than any other tourist in restaurants, bars, etc. And this is regardless of "shade".

I personally viewed something interesting on the beach though. I saw a light-skinned black child playing with several dark black children. In no time, the mother of the light-skinned jerked her up and admonished her for playing with the black children. I assume all of these children were dominicans, however, because the boys just had underwear on - which I see all of the time with dominican families.

Fiesta Mama · May 13, 2004

JanH said:
I personally viewed something interesting on the beach though. I saw a light-skinned black child playing with several dark black children. In no time, the mother of the light-skinned jerked her up and admonished her for playing with the black children. I assume all of these children were dominicans, however, because the boys just had underwear on - which I see all of the time with dominican families.

Just to add to what Jan said, I know several paler skinned Dominicans who refer to Dominicans darker than themselves as "black" when in most parts of the world, my paler friends would be considered black too. They don't mean it in a derogatory way but at first I found it amusing when I came across many "black" Dominicans who didn't think of themselves that way - it showed me a perspective which I have not seen in North America where people are "labelled" and grouped into one big class rather than being viewed as individuals.

Bobo · May 13, 2004

Thanks

Thanks for all of the replies! I feel a lot better about visiting the DR now so we will continue with our vacation plans.

Right now we're looking at resorts in the Punta Cana area (Secrets, Iberostar, Paradisus, etc.). Can anyone give us any advice about this area (what to do/what not to do)? Can anyone recommend a good resort in this area? We're not the partying type--just want some R&R and a beautiful beach!

toneloc24 · May 13, 2004

You're correct

BrothaNature said:
I am under the impressions that if people go farther away from their resorts, wouldnt it be wise to know basic conversational spansih?

To be completely honest, it's best to know basic conversational spanish, or at least have a little phrasebook, whenever traveling abroad to any Spanish-speaking country. The farther away from the resorts, means much less Englisg being spoken or understood.

When I go to Brasil, for two weeks prior, out comes the Pimsleur CDs for a quick brush-up, as I don't speak Portuguese here daily. When headed to the RD or any other Spanish-language countries, out comes the CDs as well. Just makes for a better experience, as there are people who really want to understand and help you, as well as get to know a bit about you.

JanH · May 13, 2004

Bobo - the most comrehensive web site I've found on resort descriptions and reviews by other tourists is

http://www.debbiesdominicantravel.com/

Festero · May 13, 2004

Fiesta Mama said:
Just to add to what Jan said, I know several paler skinned Dominicans who refer to Dominicans darker than themselves as "black" when in most parts of the world, my paler friends would be considered black too. They don't mean it in a derogatory way but at first I found it amusing when I came across many "black" Dominicans who didn't think of themselves that way - it showed me a perspective which I have not seen in North America where people are "labelled" and grouped into one big class rather than being viewed as individuals.

My interpretation of this phenomenon is that Dominicans don't suffer under the constraints of "political correctness" the way we North Americans do. It is what it is... why hide behind what is true and obvious. They call it the way they see it and if a friend of theirs has very dark skin their term of endearment is often "Moreno/a" or Negro/a," but with no negative connotation.

In my neck of the woods we are taught to pretend that certain differences don't exist and that if we find ourselves noticing differences we should be ashamed of ourselves. One could say that the Dominican way is a more honest approach to life.

Bobo · May 13, 2004

Festero,

I see your point but the only problem is when people allow obvious physical differences--like skin color--affect how they view other people. If differences in skin color were viewed the same way that differences in eye color are viewed (i.e., people with brown eyes are treated no better or no worse than people with green eyes) then we wouldn't have a lot of these problems. We get into trouble when we not only "notice" the obvious physical differences but also ascribe (subconsciously) all the stereotypical character traits associated with that physical difference.

As far as I know there are no stereotypes associated with "green eyes".

Tomvangeffen · May 13, 2004

and if you say

Morenita or negrita........

like the merengue singers do it even has a very positive ring to it (men talking about women...)

I have a Dominican wife, I am myself a white guy, my wife is "caffee con leche" (coffee with milk).

She and her family will use "negro" or "Haitiano/a" as a negative term. But only AFTER already disliking the person will they use these words to talk about it.

Festero said:
My interpretation of this phenomenon is that Dominicans don't suffer under the constraints of "political correctness" the way we North Americans do. It is what it is... why hide behind what is true and obvious. They call it the way they see it and if a friend of theirs has very dark skin their term of endearment is often "Moreno/a" or Negro/a," but with no negative connotation.

In my neck of the woods we are taught to pretend that certain differences don't exist and that if we find ourselves noticing differences we should be ashamed of ourselves. One could say that the Dominican way is a more honest approach to life.

Festero · May 13, 2004

Bobo said:
I see your point but the only problem is when people allow obvious physical differences--like skin color--affect how they view other people. If differences in skin color were viewed the same way that differences in eye color are viewed (i.e., people with brown eyes are treated no better or no worse than people with green eyes) then we wouldn't have a lot of these problems. We get into trouble when we not only "notice" the obvious physical differences but also ascribe (subconsciously) all the stereotypical character traits associated with that physical difference.

As far as I know there are no stereotypes associated with "green eyes".

Absolutely! I agree with you 100%. I wasn't trying to illustrate anything other than the difference itself, not anything related to unwarranted prejudices. I wrote that specifically for you as the original poster to offer additional insight into how the Dominican culture typically handles issues of color and how it differs from North America. If you were in the DR and someone called you "El Negro" it would not have a prejudice associated with it. If someone does, don't be shocked or put of by it.

It's such a sensitive topic that I wasn't even sure how best to make my point and may not have done a good job with it ... simply attempting to paint the picture for you.

The "political correctness " factor is mentioned because I felt it relative to the distinction between the two cultures. My example: Conference room in USA full of 100 people and everyone knows everyone. Fred is the only black person among the group. A messenger arrives with a package for Fred and asks people in the room who and where he is. In our present environment of political correctness, I would predict that more than half of the people whom the courier asks would be afraid to say "He's the black guy over there" and instead try to describe the color of the tie he is wearing, when in fact, his skin color is the most obvious and efficient way to identify him. If Fred was a red-head, that would be used to identify him. In the DR if Fred was the blackest among the group everyone there would just say without a second thought "The really black guy over there," or something to that extent.

Did that help at all? My points are only to help you understand the cultural differences. No hidden agenda.

African-Americans traveling to the DR

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