with regard to Floods, 100 yrs flood marks!

mariaobetsanov

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With so many over-paid underwork government employee, it there anyone who is in charge of preventing these tragedies by prevention. I only have a AA in archicteture but in school they taught that every brook -river or lake has a line called the 100 years flood line. When I go to an area near a river, I a simple designer and teacher can tell where this line is just by looking.
Like the great story about the weather man visiting in the country that argue that it was not going to rain with the farmer, that farmer pointed out that the burro had rolled on the dusty ground, it going to rain! In the middle of the night when he heard the sound of rain on the roof, this overeducated man was put to shame by a simple dumb burro, upon daybreak the man was nowher to be found. Ashamed he had ran, unable to faced those he had brad to about his knowledgeand great education.
It does not have to rain in an area, since most rivers flow towards the sea or lake, downstream from any area in the world is subject to rain. In Licey since the river is almost non-existen it its just a small brook, watch out there is an accident waiting to happen. Many disaster that occur in DR are preventable. I pointed this out in 1997, and was told to stop wishing them bad luck. Ignorance or plain stupidity does not excuse those that refuse to listen. The point where one start to desend by a river is the flood line.
The erotion line is clearly mark.
 

mariaobetsanov

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Aluvial Fans and Floods!

The town of Jimani is a aluvial fan as anyone that see the arial and distant picture of the area can see that this town like many other in DR are in the way of the natural current. I see why things have happen in this area. When I first read in the paper that there was a flood I did not know the area it had occur, the type of soil also contributed to the gravaty of the disaster. This could have been seen by a core of engineer. If the waste of national resources was a new thing there, I could be feeling surprise and since this and every government work on the wait and see atitude in DR. One of my Uncle said that the government is trying to loose some of the dead weight, those that do not matter, and they let these things happen as a system of population reduction. Death by negligence. The area is shape like a fan as the matural flow of water comes off the hills. it opens up like a funnel, how could they have build a town in the location? River dry uo at times but look out for rain in the upstream or hills, they might look harmless, but they fill up with trees and stones and become killer.
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Deforestation is the real killer

Maria,

It is important to note that these are not "floods" in the traditional sense. The deaths were not caused merely by rivers overflowing their banks. Rather, we're talking about giant waves of mud that sweep down from bare mountain slopes into the rivers. The effect is not that of a rising river, but a tidalwave of mud. This is clear when you look at the damage - and the caked appearance of the victims.

Rivers overflowing their banks can be destructive and dangerous, but nowhere near as deadly as these mud flows. The speed of the current and weight of the mud takes everything in its path. We saw this in Hurrican George too - in the same region of the country.

To some extent this is inevitable in the Southwest, which is a largely desert region of the country. The river beds are absolutely dry almost all the time. We see similar events, for example, in desert south Texas.

But I think it is no coincidence that the massive disaster occured on the Haitian border. Haiti has been virtually deforested. The highlands that would otherwise have vegetation are denuded. Nothing holds down the soil, and it all comes down to join what would have already have been flood waters. Jimani no doubt suffered because it is on the Haitian border.

Therefore, while paying attention to 30 year, 50 year, 100 year, etc., flood lines is important, reforestation would actually be the best safety measure.
 

Dwald

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Maria, this was my first though too when I heard about Jimani. It's so evident! But this is a problem in more developed countries too. People has short memory, the controll of flood&landslide-history is often olvidado when build up a new house/village.

Soil protection has the same importance, but it is not enough to prevent disasters. There are sites where constructing is a hazard with or without forests.

Both of them are essential, sobre todo in a tropical country. I wonder if there is a land information data-base, or a reseach center here, which could indicate guidelines to prevent imprudent building in flood/landslide affected sites, and coordinate consolidation of dangerous hillsides etc...
Months ago I was searching the web for a soil map of the Dominican Republic, but didn't find anything.
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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This is just the Dominican and Haitian government's way of Population Control

Every thinking person, National Geographic, Discovery Channel, Greenpeace, the Sierra Club all knew that this was going to happen sooner or later. A freak, deep tropical wave dumped incredible amounts of water on those barren hill sides and that sealed their fate.

Collect those pictures, the truly gruesome ones and show them to your children and say: SEe what happens when you cut down the trees?

However, all that rage vented, the reality is that in Haiti, there are few if any, alternative ways to get money for food. Eight million Haitians. There are pockets of successful work, as in the coffee fields up North.

People, until there is a UN effort to completely rebuild, re-educate and re-train the entire Haitian population, Haiti will be a cancer of poverty, ignorance, drugs, and depravity. (This does not mean all Haitians, however, since there are some really brilliant people trying to change things. It is just that the weight of the rest is keeping them back and they can/t hold on by themselves.)

HB
 

mariaobetsanov

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Topography in relation to rivers is the Same everywhere!

The area is look at before any building is place in a location of aluvial fan and the upriver topography and the floodlines are considered. The 100 year floodline is cut by pass flood. This is evident to the eye. Somehow these things are not been look at in DR. When I was taking Architecture in the last century it was part of building requirement. I had to take wireing,plumbing, foundation and roofing, and actualy do the work, no manicure hands last the first day. The problem I see there is the engeneering is done from the office and there is no field work done. Topography is measure by these students and fucture problems are caculated. An aluvial fan is form when the water goig from higher to lower ground have caried a large amount of water in the past. usually a devertion wall and catch basin(s) has to be constructed before anything can build in that area. Secondary problem is upriver deforestation. These conbinations were tragic.
Here there are many areas that have the same problem, many flood area are also affect by muds slide.
 

Tony C

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Hindsight is 20/20

Hmmm.....DO you think when the people of the area built their homes they had the surveyors consult the master plan for the area before they consulted the geological team?
Maybe their Homeowners insurance adjuster failed to consult the archives in Madrid to plot the weather patterns for the last 400 years?

You people crack me up!
 

mariaobetsanov

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weather pattern ! Your eye can seethe signs drawn by previous weather!

A plain after hillside is always considered a flood plain. What happen could have been avoided, just by looking at the area.
I know that in DR information or a central libray with maps resources does not exist. The earth it seems to be the last place to be considered as a danger. But water and unstable soil do not mix.

do you know what a Philadelphia rod is? We as second year student learned to use one. I fail to see that comedy in saving lives! Many constructions are done by those that are going to live in the them. there are some sort of government control, even out in the small town?
 
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Tony C

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mariaobetsanov said:
A plain after hillside is always considered a flood plain. What happen could have been avoided, just by looking at the area.
I know that in DR information or a central libray with maps resources does not exist. The earth it seems to be the last place to be considered as a danger. But water and unstable soil do not mix.

do you know what a Philadelphia rod is? We as second year student learned to use one. I fail to see that comedy in saving lives! Many constructions are done by those that are going to live in the them. there are some sort of government control, even out in the small town?

All these people do is find a spot and build. You try and explain to them that cannot live where they built there humble abode because a flood happend there 100 years ago.
 

mariaobetsanov

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Tony C said:
All these people do is find a spot and build. You try and explain to them that cannot live where they built there humble abode because a flood happend there 100 years ago.
As you notice the 100 years flood is a great name for the unavoidable event, it a well known fact, not an invention by some that got together and made it up. The Book that illustrates this event is "Mother Earth Last Catologe, its also found in other architecture books.
When my daughter come over I will scan it in. "La cueta "is the first sign that the area has had a strong flood problem. np one in their right mind will build by a dry river bed.
 

Texas Bill

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Tony C said:
All these people do is find a spot and build. You try and explain to them that cannot live where they built there humble abode because a flood happend there 100 years ago.

Tony, The 100 year flood plan is used by the Corps of Engineers in the States to identify the highest level of innundation experienced in an area over the past 100 years and is used to index where river levees must be placed. In addition, such information is furnished to communities so that they may prevent construction within those zones so identified.

It is unfortunat that the Dominican Republic hasn't progressed far enough along the modern civilization line to include such preventive measures and to enforce same.

Texas Bill
 

mariaobetsanov

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I had to work up an area in my second year!

Using the Philadelphia rod working in two all students in the architecture and engeenering, when up into the Lake Arrowhead are to survey and plan a construction of a hause. It had to be work on a area that was assingned and the structure had to be place in an area that the rain or snow melt wound not affect. This is similar to working in an area that there is no building dept. I am grateful to my teacher for being so demanding. The plan had to show location of the living areas, bridge or road and detail on grading means no diches but road yhat had a 3degree slop for dainnage. Not like those diches that I saw being work on in Santiago, those are accident waiting to happen. The word for this shaby work is-half-***. What kind of city planner are these?