Reaction to the --Jemenes, Taylor and other

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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According to the DR1 report today, the Jemenes Group has advertised comments previously expressed by many posters on this, and other forums of DR1.
Additionaly, Mr Taylor's comments seem to carry some fairly emphatic instructions to both the political and judiciary elements of the Dominican government.
Again, the spectre of the "Electricity Sector" raises it's very ugly head in the section dealing with that sphere in the DR1 report.

Are we to regard these commentaries as forerunners of things to come, or must we disregard them as merely a passing-on of the usual digressions in an effort to calm the fears of a rattled public?

Texas Bill
 
Apr 26, 2002
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It's like looking out over Lakehurst AFTER the Hindenburg burns and crashes and saying: "As much smarter American experts, we advise that next time you don't use nitrogen."

No schitt?

Where were these voices during the actual economic reign of terror? Where was the American ambassador? Where was Leon?
 

Texas Bill

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
It's like looking out over Lakehurst AFTER the Hindenburg burns and crashes and saying: "As much smarter American experts, we advise that next time you don't use nitrogen."

No schitt?

Where were these voices during the actual economic reign of terror? Where was the American ambassador? Where was Leon?

Porfi---I think you meant to say Hydrogen instead of Nitrogen, didn't you??

And I agree with your comment about the location of the voices. It would seem that everyone is now mounting the "bandwagon" of potential recovery so they can say that was what they wanted all along. Whaddya you think??

Texas Bill
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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In general

the word from Santo Domingo is that Taylor came to kick butt.
His points being:
Punish the players that put the country in this mess in the first place--B?ez and Pelleranos etc.
Get the freaking tax bill into and out of Congress asap or there will be no IMF bailout.
Be nice to each other, because the entire international financial community is watching how you do this.
Get out of the electric sector, sell off all that stuff you have and get interest rates lower, make the government smaller and do it quickly.

As for Jos? Le?n Jim?nes, he was expressing the opinion of a whole lot of people that are fed up with the curtrent situation, but are not going to give up their business and social positions to enter politics and solve the problems.
It is interesting to see the coherence of his position and that expressed by the CONEP group.

HB, watching, watching...
 

Texas Bill

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I know I have been ultra-critical of the DR government in the past, but I really think such criticism is and was justified. Many, I'm sure, will agree that the politicians need to look at how things are done by government from the OUTSIDE IN instead of from the INSIDE OUT.
If the existing body politic can only forego their "leave us alone and let us do things our own way" attitude, and listen to the advise of other (and I have to say, more astute) voices from within (and here I refer to the economists who have very accurately described the necessary recovery process) and at least ACT like STATESMEN, then there is hope for a complete recovery in a shorter time than previously thought.
After THAT longwinded post, I'm exhausted and will defer to those who understand the Dominican mindset better than I.
I think Hillbilly hit it on the head.

Texas Bill
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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Those of you living in the DR are wishing for absolutely the wrong thing. If we have learned anything at all....it is that you should not entrust the government with more and more of your money and your freedoms.

RAISING TAXES is unequivocally the WORST move the new administration can make. Why are you wishing to hand over to the central government even MORE of your hard earned money? Have you not endured enough pain form the previous 4 years?

What do you think is going to happen to the extra money they will collect from you? I cannot comprehend how the DR peoples are going along with this insidious plan to raise your taxes.

Why hasn't Fernandez spoken about reducing government instead?

Do you really think that the US Treasury and the IMF came over to the DR becase they really,really like you and they wish to make your life easier and better?

Or do you think that they came over to assure that they get paid their principa and interest that Mejia signed up for?

Where is frederic? He appears to be one of the few in the Fernandez administration with a sensible economic plan.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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mondongo said:
Those of you living in the DR are wishing for absolutely the wrong thing. If we have learned anything at all....it is that you should not entrust the government with more and more of your money and your freedoms.

RAISING TAXES is unequivocally the WORST move the new administration can make. Why are you wishing to hand over to the central government even MORE of your hard earned money? Have you not endured enough pain form the previous 4 years?

What do you think is going to happen to the extra money they will collect from you? I cannot comprehend how the DR peoples are going along with this insidious plan to raise your taxes.

Why hasn't Fernandez spoken about reducing government instead?

Do you really think that the US Treasury and the IMF came over to the DR becase they really,really like you and they wish to make your life easier and better?

Or do you think that they came over to assure that they get paid their principa and interest that Mejia signed up for?

Where is frederic? He appears to be one of the few in the Fernandez administration with a sensible economic plan.

Good points mondongo.

The reality is this, the IMF came to the DR to do business. No business in the world does something that will not create profit, end of story!

I agree with you on the taxes. The need to get collection rates up, not tax rates up! These idiots think they know it all, but in fact they just show the general population that many of them in the palace know nothing at all, well they do know how to mess things up! (BTW, the idiots are the government officials)

Fernandez is probably not talking much right now for one of the followig reasons:

1. He is building connections around the world with people that have the ability to actually help him do something with the country politically and economically.

2. He figures people know how he rules and reduction of government (ie. removing the useless jobposts) will be part of his agenda anyways, but he will not reduce the government to the minimalist position the IMF wants it to be. The DR economy is not mature enough to stand on its own feet, it still needs a cane to hold on to.

3. The Hippo clan is leaving for good in three weeks, why even bother wasting precious air and energy! They will just do what's right for the country when their time comes!
 

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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NalOwhs

I am of the opinion that your summation is right on!!

I really can't add anything to it at this point.

We'll just have to wait and see what develops over the next few months as the new Administration gets it's act in gear and rolling.

Let's just hope that the Senate does it right for a change, or else Leonel will have a lot to correct once he takes the reins of government.

Texas Bill
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Hillbilly said:
the word from Santo Domingo is that Taylor came to kick butt.
His points being:
Punish the players that put the country in this mess in the first place--B?ez and Pelleranos etc.
Get the freaking tax bill into and out of Congress asap or there will be no IMF bailout.
Be nice to each other, because the entire international financial community is watching how you do this.
Get out of the electric sector, sell off all that stuff you have and get interest rates lower, make the government smaller and do it quickly.
I wish, HB, that the US were so altruistic. But I think one of the unescapable conclusions of this thread is that the US doesn't actually care about the wellbeing of the DR. If it did, it would have pressured Hippo not to take out the loans and do other destructive things in the first place, instead of practically promoting same. No, as others have written, it's about debt collection at this point.

I can't help but think of a story that Hunter S. Thompson used to tell. It seems ole Hunter was a big time gambler. During one of his down periods, when he wasn't writing or speaking much, he went heavily in debt to the Maffia with bad sports betting. He couldn't pay. The Maffia, though, rather than offing him, actually put an agent in charge of him. They detoxed him, cleaned him up, and scheduled a major college speaking tour for him. He made hundreds of thousands of dollars during the tour or, rather, the Maffia did off of him. He was forced to wake up every day, get on an airplane, and speak somewhere. If not, the Maffia would have made things most unpleasant.

He now recalls that period as among the most productive in his life.

Metaphor?

Now let's hear it from the 'Mer'cans about how evil I am for comparing the USA to the Maffia.
 

KrackedKris

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Apr 8, 2004
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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
It's like looking out over Lakehurst AFTER the Hindenburg burns and crashes and saying: "As much smarter American experts, we advise that next time you don't use nitrogen."

No schitt?

Where were these voices during the actual economic reign of terror? Where was the American ambassador? Where was Leon?

I beleive Nitrogen to be inert, Hindy was a Hydrogen gas bag because US controlled helium
 
Apr 26, 2002
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KrackedKris said:
I beleive Nitrogen to be inert, Hindy was a Hydrogen gas bag because US controlled helium
Well, then, my misstatement, which Texas previously noted, has resulted in an ironic disclosure on Kracked's part.
 

Texas Bill

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AND, the Hindenberg was landing at Lakehurst specifically to exchange her Hydrogen gas for Helium when the accident occurred.

In another vein, Porfi, i don't think the US is, or ever has, taken upon itself to fulfill an :altruistic" role in the International scenario of Finance.
They, and more recently, over the past 50 or so years following WWII, European nations have contributed toward financial assistance of "developing" nations through the IMF and World Bank. But we've been through that discussion many times before.
If you recall, immediately after the US$600 million commitment by the IMF, Hippo bought back the Spanish interest in the Electric sector for something like US$570 million. The IMF immediately abeyed the agreement and brought pressure against Hippo to get DR's act together financially. The DR then went on to authorize even more loans with other agencies and go deeper into debt. Now would that appear to you to be the actions of a responsible government??? Now you are attempting to place ALL the blame on the IMf for the self-imposed financial problems of the DR. At least, that is how I'm interpreting your statements. The IMF/World Bank MAY share some of the responsibility in the matter, but by no means can you place the TOTAL blame in their corner.
I'm not being an apologist for the world's lending organizations by any means, just trying to be fair in assessing the ROOT causes of the DR's financial problems without getting on a soap box to do so.
I believe that those lending agencies have every right to demand financial responsibility of a debtor nation, to demand that they show plausable solutions to effect repayment of monies loaned, to establish a reasonable repayment schedule and stick to it, or else to abrogate and default on the total, suffer the consequences and eat their crow like everyone else who have taken bankruptcy.
We both recognize that scenario is unacceptable for ANY nation to suffer. Mayhem would result. So, what is the solution??
Pointing fingers and placing blame on outside sources doesn't fill the bill regardless of the pressures of international economics. A nation either enters into the world market and adjusts it's economy to those forces, or remains isolated and faces the consequences of that action.
Let's face it, the world is driven by MONEY. If a nation wishes to be prosperous, it must participate in world trade with whatever materials it has to offer and at competitive prices. If it doesn't, it will forever remain a backwater nation and be dubbed "Third World" or "Emerging".
I still agree with you that the institutions of the IMF and World Bank have outlived their usefulness, but they're ALL the poorer nations have as a source of emergency funds until a reorganized, reoriented substitute is forthcoming.

Texas Bill