Free trade agreement

Call It "Free Trade",call It "Globalization" what it means is....

Whoever,wherever,and whenever,a "good",or "service" can be produced the cheapest,it WILL!
The US is an agricultural powerhouse.They produce grains and "Dairy" at prices most of the world can only dream about.The DR has "Freezones" producing "textiles" cheaply.Textile workers in the "Carolinas" can't compete.Dominicans produce the greatest ballplayers in the World,should they be banned from MLB? Great tobacco grown here.Lets help the US tobacco growers and ban Dominican tobacco!
"Call Centers" are springing up al around the world,wherever labor costs are cheapest.I see that radiologists in Isreal are reading the daily X-Rays of patients from the US!!!India may become the "Silicon Valley" of the future!'One countries loss,is another countries gain!
Your "Sugar" story is cute,but most people can't tell the difference between "Coke" and "Pepsi",let alone what kind of "sweetner" is used to make them! And don't forget "Sugar beets'! Glucose is glucose,doesnt matter where it comes from."Liquid sweetners are easier to handle than bulk "Cane Sugar"!
Remember when cars made in Japan were "pieces-of-crap",and really cheap??? Now they are great cars,not cheap,and produced in California,Tennesee,Mississippi,etc!
Get out more!
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Just another example of the rich elite tightening their grip on the world's economy...

Well said

Extreemly well said CC
Charlie

Congratulations Criss Colon! You said it as clear as it can be said.

However (yes there is a however), I must say this, my business interest are not threatened by this, in fact it will help me out even more! Anyways, I really feel it for those braceros out in the cane. Where are all of those Haitian cutters going to go? They are not going back to their country for the obvious reasons. There is nothing for them anywhere else in the DR, except for them to take a job that a Dominican would have. Hopefully this would destroy the sugar monoculture that dominates especially in the Llanuras del Este here in the DR, but it would only be good if we can use that land to produce something else.

Hopefully the agrarians of this country (DR) have some other foodstuff in mind to replace the Sugar plantations, other wise much of the DR will become a desert. Notice how some areas of Punta Cana that in the past were forested, then were turned into Sugar cane fields, notice how desert like it looks now that the sugar fields are gone!

By the way, the x-ray things are been revised in India, not Israel anymore. Israel has gotten more expensive lately, in India the same job can be done by a qualified doctor for $15 a week and they are not complaining! Its a Bargain!!!

Part of the problem in the dr is Government restrictions on imports

of "Food Stuffs"! California used to be the world nomber one supplier of garlic."Welcome to Gilroy!"Now it is China.The Basics in the dr are very costly because og import restrictions.Onions and garlic are two.Pork and chicken are more.Pork costs twice as much here as in the US.Everyone in Moca is raising 12 pigs,bought by brokers,who sell to truckers,who take it to the Mataderos,who the re-sell it to the "Packers,who sell to the wholesalers,who sell to the retailers!!!!To many "Cuts" to pay! Take the land used to produce the inefficient import protected crops in the DR,and raise some high value crop for export.I don't know what it might be,but something like,macadamia nuts,pistachios,kiwi fruit,or grow coffee and cacao more efficiently.
It is VERY efficient for Con Agra to control the production of pork.They grow the feed,own the feed lots,transportation,packaging,and distribution! Complain all you want to about "Agri-business" and Multi-Nationals,but they have made eating,and owning consumer goods a reality to most of the world!
The problem of feeding the world has never been a shortage of food,only in the distributionof that food.
I am a supporter of Unlimited Free Trade.In the end,everyone wins!
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Switch uses

In a previous thread I mentioned different uses for farmland. The largest competitor for Crayfish in the US is China but in the DR the Cray fish species are not native to the DR, they are the Red swamp Cray fish used commercially in Louisiana.
Sugar Cane could be redirected to feed for animals. The United States has a policy of zero imports for any country that has had even one case of Mad Cow. When the US had the one case many countries in Asia implemented the same Policy and now the US has lost a large portion of its export market.
As CC mentioned learn or burn.
Salmon farms purchase feed made from less marketable fish species. Cray fish would be an easy source of fish food.
I wish I had more to add to this thread. I still have not had enough time at Sea with boredom hitting me to reflect on this subject.
John

"In the end everyone wins"

That can be seen in the US where > 10% of the US population controls 90%+ of that nations wealth.. case in point of Free Trade Benefiting "Everyone"

Rice was once a major food crop in Haiti. Under pressure from the U.S., Aristide lowered import tariffs on rice. Haiti was flooded with rice from the U.S., which was cheaper because growers receive government subsidies. This drove Haitian farmers out of rice production and off the land. Haiti is now the fifth largest importer of rice from the U.S.

In the late 1990s, Haiti lost 25,000 acres of agricultural land after the U.S. sold Haiti agricultural chemicals that made the crops come up black, shriveled, and inedible and destroyed the land for further agricultural use.

Looks like the Haitian farmer's won too..

SunRa said:

"In the end everyone wins"

That can be seen in the US where > 10% of the US population controls 90%+ of that nations wealth.. case in point of Free Trade Benefiting "Everyone"

Rice was once a major food crop in Haiti. Under pressure from the U.S., Aristide lowered import tariffs on rice. Haiti was flooded with rice from the U.S., which was cheaper because growers receive government subsidies. This drove Haitian farmers out of rice production and off the land. Haiti is now the fifth largest importer of rice from the U.S.

In the late 1990s, Haiti lost 25,000 acres of agricultural land after the U.S. sold Haiti agricultural chemicals that made the crops come up black, shriveled, and inedible and destroyed the land for further agricultural use.

Looks like the Haitian farmer's won too..

Click to expand...

Adapt or die.
Here in South Florida's Redlands farming district their are 2 types of farmers. Those that saw NAFTA and its effects on the prices of Tomatoes and other vegetables and quickly convert to herb and ornatmental plant farming.

And the others? Bankrupt and complaining how NAFTA drove them out of business.

Are you actually attempting to place the blame on the Haitian peasants??

SunRa

I don't think anyone is trying to place the BLAME on anyone's back at this point in the discussion. Rather, they are attempting to isolate the ROOT cause and from there arrive at LOGICAL solutions instead of shotgunning the factors.
I'm reminded of the Great Midwestern Dust Bowl of the 1930's in the US, wherein the small 160 acre faarmers were forced to leave the land and seek employment in places like California, Arizona, Oregon and Washington because their farms were useless and could no longer support them. I think Haiti has the same problem with the denuding of their forrests and the misdirected usage of croplands. The same scenario applies to the DR wherein too much of the croplands areused for uneconomical production.
It really comes down to having a firm, progressive and rational use of available arable lands, crop rotation and proper management.
The rich elite really don't get into the everyday scheme of things, but rather, provide the capital which provides the wherewithal for operations. And in those cases where that capital is misused, mismanaged, etc. it is subsequently withdrawn and applied in a different area. Simply a matter of guarding resources.

Texas Bill

I heard that sugar cane is an outdated crop anyway, sugar beets are supposedly much more efficient. The DR should stop growing sugar cane if it's not competetive, what stops them from growing corn? What stops them from growing sugar beets? They have some of the nmost fertile land in the world and a nearly year round growing season, are they afraid to learn something new?

Very efficient use of time,blaming others for your problems!!

I like that "Learn or Burn"!
I wonder who they blamed for all the problems in the World before 1776! Oh,England I guess!
Maybe the US should have stayed out of WWII,and just split the World with Germany,But Noooooooooooooo,we had to stick our nose in other peoples business!
Cris Colon

Tony C said:

Adapt or die.
Here in South Florida's Redlands farming district their are 2 types of farmers. Those that saw NAFTA and its effects on the prices of Tomatoes and other vegetables and quickly convert to herb and ornatmental plant farming.

And the others? Bankrupt and complaining how NAFTA drove them out of business.

Click to expand...

Tony C and the Americans talk a good game - all principled and everything - but the facts aren't so supportive of US free trade policy.

Tony's truck farmers were remiss in that they didn't have the Republican political clout to obtain massive subsidies in the same way the Florida sugar plantation owners did. Sugar in Florida - which has to be the most expensive and environmentally unsound place on the planet to produce it - continues to be a viable business in this most artificial way. And even then, the sugar barons have to bring in semi-legal foreign workers and treat them like sh*t instead of hiring Americans and paying them the legal minimum wage. How does this benefit the world economy, principles of "free trade" or any other Americans other than the sugar barons and Republican politicians (who can count on continued contributions to keep the cycle going)? It certainly is unfair to the Dominican Republic, and will continue to be unfair through any proposed free trade agreement.

Oh no, my American friends. Free trade cannot be viewed as a matter of tariffs alone. Until the US does its part in eliminating artificial subsidies and in eliminating the exclusion of certain "protected" industries from free trade, it's not "free trade" at all, is it? Rather, it's a system of political and economic coersion hiding behind the (I would agree) desirable banner of "free trade".

So what else it new?

Obviously it is not the US' desire or responsibility to be "fair" to anybody. This is not grade school, it's business and all advantages and levers can and will be used. The way it should be.

What in life is fair?

MrMike said:

Obviously it is not the US' desire or responsibility to be "fair" to anybody. This is not grade school, it's business and all advantages and levers can and will be used. The way it should be.

What in life is fair?

Click to expand...

Then how about a reduction in the level of hypocracy from Asst. Sec. Taylor and some of the Americans on this board who maintain religiously that free trade is somehow an obtainable utopia and that small countries should just give-in to its inevitable course?

Porfio_Rubirosa said:

Tony C and the Americans talk a good game - all principled and everything - but the facts aren't so supportive of US free trade policy.

Tony's truck farmers were remiss in that they didn't have the Republican political clout to obtain massive subsidies in the same way the Florida sugar plantation owners did. Sugar in Florida - which has to be the most expensive and environmentally unsound place on the planet to produce it - continues to be a viable business in this most artificial way. And even then, the sugar barons have to bring in semi-legal foreign workers and treat them like sh*t instead of hiring Americans and paying them the legal minimum wage. How does this benefit the world economy, principles of "free trade" or any other Americans other than the sugar barons and Republican politicians (who can count on continued contributions to keep the cycle going)? It certainly is unfair to the Dominican Republic, and will continue to be unfair through any proposed free trade agreement.

Oh no, my American friends. Free trade cannot be viewed as a matter of tariffs alone. Until the US does its part in eliminating artificial subsidies and in eliminating the exclusion of certain "protected" industries from free trade, it's not "free trade" at all, is it? Rather, it's a system of political and economic coersion hiding behind the (I would agree) desirable banner of "free trade".

So what else it new?

Click to expand...

I agree with you too.

What I'm about to say is what helps brand me an "anti-American" in the minds of some here, but in reality I'm not. But what the heck, I'll just express my opinion!

I don't mind all of this free-trade talk, as long that there is a real free trade. If market forces is the way of the modern Capitalism, than its true, the US should drop all its subsidies and bail outs towards any of its companies. A good example would be the airline industry. The American airline industry under a real free-trade would have collapased after 9/11. However, the airlines went to DC and got money that the market forces were not supplying to them, money that made it possible for them to survive that ordeal artificially.

Also, due to the extent the global economy has expanded, there should probably be no farms in the first world anymore under a real Free-Trade. Think about it, first world farms are subsidiesed to be a able to compete against third world farming. If market forces were truly in place, most first world farmers would have been out of business and the third world would be perfecting the one industry they seem to know best which is farming. (Most developing countries have Farming and their number 1 or 2 most important industry employing in most cases up to half the populations respectively).

However, this is just wishful thinking. Such thing won't happen, period. I mean, in the book named "The House of Morgan" by Ron Chernow in Chapter 7, he very precisely describe how the Depression came to being and how US bad economic policies exacerbated the depression and it was interesting (I re-read that chapter last night btw), the US had a free-trade status with many countries in the roaring twenties, but in the depressive 1930s, the US imposed tarrifs and virtually cut off trade with other countries to give its own industries a chance to mature and survive that depression. If we look at how the DR is being treated right now under this "mini depression" the DR is going through right now, if the DR was to take the US footsteps, the DR would have to ignore any free-trade agreements for the sake of its industries.

However, I did saw Bush the other day on C-Span (via Satelite) who clearly said that "America has open up its borders to foreign imports, now the rest of the world must open up theirs. If they don't want to, we pressure them to open up because we have open up ours", more or less that is what he said in similar words to those. So, basically even if the DR was to follow the US footsteps in protecting its economy for the sake of its industries, the DR won't be able to do it because we would be pressure to open anyways. How would that pressure be applied? I don't know, but it would probably be a drying up of economic aid or demanding higher "minimum" payments for the debts the DR owes to the IMF and World Bank or something. '

In short, even if the DR (or any country) wanted to follow the same steps that lead the US to prosperity, we can't because Uncle Sam has some other plans and we (despite being independent) must adhere to his demands with no questioning or face the consequences. Welcome to Free Trade people!

Maybe I'm wrong. And if I am, please correct me.

Has not each country assigned negotiators to the conferences regarding "Free Trade" and has not each country empowered those same negotiators to do their negotiating with certain goals in mind to the benefit of their country?

If that is the case (and I must qualify the statement above with that remark), then have not those negotiators abrogated their responsibilities by not demanding that teir goals be met during those conferences and that those goals be included in the final agreement?

If the negotiators failed to have their goals recognized and included, then they should have boycotted those negotiations and encouraged other negotiators to do the same.

Now, none of us were privy to what went on in the individual conferences and probably will never know, but we really can't make blanket statements based on the outcome of those negotiations without positive proof of any allegations contrary to the desired goals of the participants.

We don't know what pressures were brought to bear, what innuendos were promulgated, what threats were made in the efforts to reach consensus and finalizing the agreements.

All we know is the results of the conferences and their impact on the countries involved. In some instances these impacts were negative, and in others they were positive else the agreements would never have reached consensus and the conference would have disbanded without results.

As to Porfi's remarks against the farm subsidies in the US, I might remind him that the DR does the same thing, reference yesterday's action by Hipolito in paying out over RD$5 BILLION to the Agri-Industry (that is if I read the article correctly on DR1 Report).

So, it seems that each country is "guilty" of subsidising some portion of their economy, whether it be the Agriculture, Manufacturing, or whatever industry and that it's NOT just the US that does so; it's a universal support of "home grown" industries.

I reat my case.

Texas Bill

It's GOOD to be an American!

Just once I would like to meet a Dominican who could accept at least SOME small amount of blame for the problems in the DR!!I never will,because "Denial
is a Dominican instinct!!!
If accepting the blame for all the Worlds problems is the price of being an American citizen,I think I'll just hang on to my passport!
Things must not be as bad in the US as some Dominicans would lead us to believe,judging from the fact that all the boats coming back from Puerto Rico are empty,not vis-a-versa!!!!!!
The "Love/Hate" relationship that dominicans have with the US makes them all crazy.They love to get a visa to get to New York,and then they Hate the fact that there is no one to blame but themselves for their failure to succeed,once they get there!
I have NEVER blamed anyone but myself for any of my success or failure in my entire life.I NEVER WILL! Take A Lesson!!!

"Yankee Go Home!!!".....................and PLEASE,TAKE ME WITH YOU!!
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