I have lived in NY for ten years, I don't consider myself Dominican-york, even though when I go down to the Island that is what I am considered, yes, I am different than most Dominicans over there now, i am considered 'Americanized', but isn't this a catch-22 situation? Here, in NY, I consider myself 100% Dominican above anything else, and Americans don't see me as part of their culture and yet there I am not considered 100% Dominican! I guess that is the price we all pay as immigrants, not belonging to here or there!
- Thread starter mariposa
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The fate of Immigrants
Mariposa
Yah! what you're saying is quite true and seems to be the universal immigrant experience. Over time they take on a bit of their host country's culture.Yet, typically don't become fully americanized until the second generation or so. Which reminds me, I once read that there was a small community of dominicans, who lived in new york city(harlem), prior to 1950's.
Out of curiosity, exactly how are you different than dominicans, still living in the DR? just curious.
Carl ericson
Yah! what you're saying is quite true and seems to be the universal immigrant experience. Over time they take on a bit of their host country's culture.Yet, typically don't become fully americanized until the second generation or so. Which reminds me, I once read that there was a small community of dominicans, who lived in new york city(harlem), prior to 1950's.
Out of curiosity, exactly how are you different than dominicans, still living in the DR? just curious.
Carl ericson
Mariposa, I see your point, but my feeling is that you belong where you want to.
I am not the typical Dominican either, here or there. The first thing that sets me apart from the rest of the Dominicans in my cypher is that I choose not to live "con un pie aqui y el otro alla" I dont want to save pesos, I dont want to own a house in San Cristobal - I want one near the beach, I rather have a house here in the States, I rather have a quality ride here than one stored in a marquesina so that I can drive it in December or a few weeks out of the year, I dont want to pay less for a mortgage or rent so that I can save and move there, I rather pay more and feel safe and have my kids go to a quality school system.
See, although many Dominicans mean well by saving and having something to 'fall back on' it is impossible to try to live a quality life in both places. They have to concentrate in either place and once stablished then we can move forward. Many of them, my family included, want to leave something behind for the kids, but in the meantime dont live in safe areas, live crowded and just dont live they way they can trying to live out this dream that has been instilled in them from other generations.
I break my mom's heart everytime I tell her I really dont want to buy that lot next door to her, or the house for sale accross the street, or the car the neighbor is selling... I have to get myself and my kids situated in the area I live in most of the time.
Ok, so back to the original question, I feel your pain: I dont really fit any mold either, I dont look Dominican, I'm not American, and in DR, I'm a Dom-York too - and I still go every year. In a way it is a catch 22, but is not so bad to not belong to someone else's mold, so I've created my own...
I am not the typical Dominican either, here or there. The first thing that sets me apart from the rest of the Dominicans in my cypher is that I choose not to live "con un pie aqui y el otro alla" I dont want to save pesos, I dont want to own a house in San Cristobal - I want one near the beach, I rather have a house here in the States, I rather have a quality ride here than one stored in a marquesina so that I can drive it in December or a few weeks out of the year, I dont want to pay less for a mortgage or rent so that I can save and move there, I rather pay more and feel safe and have my kids go to a quality school system.
See, although many Dominicans mean well by saving and having something to 'fall back on' it is impossible to try to live a quality life in both places. They have to concentrate in either place and once stablished then we can move forward. Many of them, my family included, want to leave something behind for the kids, but in the meantime dont live in safe areas, live crowded and just dont live they way they can trying to live out this dream that has been instilled in them from other generations.
I break my mom's heart everytime I tell her I really dont want to buy that lot next door to her, or the house for sale accross the street, or the car the neighbor is selling... I have to get myself and my kids situated in the area I live in most of the time.
Ok, so back to the original question, I feel your pain: I dont really fit any mold either, I dont look Dominican, I'm not American, and in DR, I'm a Dom-York too - and I still go every year. In a way it is a catch 22, but is not so bad to not belong to someone else's mold, so I've created my own...
Very true .......
Your affirmation and perception is correct about immigrants and I think that is most likely the feeling of immigrants everywhere. People who move from their country of origin to live elsewhere eventually do adopt some of the cultural aspects of their new surroundings but age plays a key factor as to what extent and how much of the new culture they adopt. The first element that I think is key is the language. If the immigrant has to learn a new language that usually makes s/he feel "less" a part of the new culture until they learn or they live in little communities were their language and culture is predominant. It's hard to say. I see it as a give and take situation. One has to adapt and become a part of the new culture to survive but at the same time one may feel that the more s/he adapts the more s/he loses their culture and sense of self. I feel like I can go on forever but I will stop here.
I often wonder the reverse. Foreigners who have moved to the DR and have lived there for years. How do they feel culturally and do they consider themselves immigrants?
Your affirmation and perception is correct about immigrants and I think that is most likely the feeling of immigrants everywhere. People who move from their country of origin to live elsewhere eventually do adopt some of the cultural aspects of their new surroundings but age plays a key factor as to what extent and how much of the new culture they adopt. The first element that I think is key is the language. If the immigrant has to learn a new language that usually makes s/he feel "less" a part of the new culture until they learn or they live in little communities were their language and culture is predominant. It's hard to say. I see it as a give and take situation. One has to adapt and become a part of the new culture to survive but at the same time one may feel that the more s/he adapts the more s/he loses their culture and sense of self. I feel like I can go on forever but I will stop here.
I often wonder the reverse. Foreigners who have moved to the DR and have lived there for years. How do they feel culturally and do they consider themselves immigrants?
"Alien": Yuck!!
I'm 54 and came to US. when I was 12 . From day one, I was labeled an "alien", an Inmigrant,a Hispanic or a Latino. Although I learned the language and culture, I never felt "American". I always considered myself puro Dominicano. Always dreamed of returning where I'd feel fully accepted and not categorized in any way. Unfortunately, I've been here too long and don't speak or act as a typical Dominican. When I'm there, I'm often asked where on earth I came from and don't believe I'm a paisano. So as much as I hate to realize it, I'm still seen as an "alien" here and there. there's no escaping it.
I'm 54 and came to US. when I was 12 . From day one, I was labeled an "alien", an Inmigrant,a Hispanic or a Latino. Although I learned the language and culture, I never felt "American". I always considered myself puro Dominicano. Always dreamed of returning where I'd feel fully accepted and not categorized in any way. Unfortunately, I've been here too long and don't speak or act as a typical Dominican. When I'm there, I'm often asked where on earth I came from and don't believe I'm a paisano. So as much as I hate to realize it, I'm still seen as an "alien" here and there. there's no escaping it.
Don Juan;
I think what you fel and have expressed can be said of ALL people who choose to migrate to a foreign land and settle there.
Every immigrant, or visitor, upon arriving in a strange land goes through what is commonly referred to as "culture shock". In the insuing weeks, months, years after the initial shock, those people tend to adjust to the new culture/environment if they isolate themselves from those expats of their native land. If they don't do that, they tend to isolate themselves in that milieu which is familiar and thus become isolated from the mainstream of their adopted society. in doing so they remain "alien" in the eyes of that adopted society, not understanding it, nor being understood by it.
Humans are a herding animal and will instinctively seek the company of those who/what is/are familiar. Expats the world over experience this syndrome, so don't feel so alone in your thoughts and ambitions.
I think the fact that you have elected to seek your "fortune" in an "alien" society exemplifies that element in the human psyche that is the hallmark of our destiny on this planet. Without that drive to see what is "on the over the hill" we would still all be confined to the Oldivi Gorge of Africa and eaking out a living from roots, berries and "road kill".
Mankind's legacy of "Conquering and Settling" is still a force we are endowed with. The expression of that force is the mobility with which humanity continues to strive for. Let us hope that force remains strong in future generations during our outward migration.
Texas Bill
I think what you fel and have expressed can be said of ALL people who choose to migrate to a foreign land and settle there.
Every immigrant, or visitor, upon arriving in a strange land goes through what is commonly referred to as "culture shock". In the insuing weeks, months, years after the initial shock, those people tend to adjust to the new culture/environment if they isolate themselves from those expats of their native land. If they don't do that, they tend to isolate themselves in that milieu which is familiar and thus become isolated from the mainstream of their adopted society. in doing so they remain "alien" in the eyes of that adopted society, not understanding it, nor being understood by it.
Humans are a herding animal and will instinctively seek the company of those who/what is/are familiar. Expats the world over experience this syndrome, so don't feel so alone in your thoughts and ambitions.
I think the fact that you have elected to seek your "fortune" in an "alien" society exemplifies that element in the human psyche that is the hallmark of our destiny on this planet. Without that drive to see what is "on the over the hill" we would still all be confined to the Oldivi Gorge of Africa and eaking out a living from roots, berries and "road kill".
Mankind's legacy of "Conquering and Settling" is still a force we are endowed with. The expression of that force is the mobility with which humanity continues to strive for. Let us hope that force remains strong in future generations during our outward migration.
Texas Bill
I wonder if I am an Ami-Dom??
Having lived 2/3 of my life in the DR, does that make me an AMI -DOM?
While I am never confused as being a Dominican, my origins always seems to get a question or two or three from my students. Cubano? Colombiano? ?De d?nde?
Oh well, it don't make no never mind where a tree sprouts, it's where it puts down its roots that matters.
HB
Having lived 2/3 of my life in the DR, does that make me an AMI -DOM?
While I am never confused as being a Dominican, my origins always seems to get a question or two or three from my students. Cubano? Colombiano? ?De d?nde?
Oh well, it don't make no never mind where a tree sprouts, it's where it puts down its roots that matters.
HB
Hillbilly.....If you live to be 99
Hillbilly,
2/3 of your life ago you were a Gringo, you are a Gringo now! and when you are 99 you will still be a Gringo.
Hillbilly said:Having lived 2/3 of my life in the DR, does that make me an AMI -DOM?
While I am never confused as being a Dominican, my origins always seems to get a question or two or three from my students. Cubano? Colombiano? ?De d?nde?
Oh well, it don't make no never mind where a tree sprouts, it's where it puts down its roots that matters.
HB
Hillbilly,
2/3 of your life ago you were a Gringo, you are a Gringo now! and when you are 99 you will still be a Gringo.
Hillbilly said:Having lived 2/3 of my life in the DR, does that make me an AMI -DOM?
While I am never confused as being a Dominican, my origins always seems to get a question or two or three from my students. Cubano? Colombiano? ?De d?nde?
Oh well, it don't make no never mind where a tree sprouts, it's where it puts down its roots that matters.
HB
I don't know you personally, but based on the amount of time you have lived here in the DR, you could might as well be considered to be a Dominican. Here are a few questions that you should ask yourself to see if you are now more a Dominican than an American:
1. When you travel to the States, do you miss any aspect of the DR?
2. Do you ever get an urge to visit the US?
3. Do you feel as comfortable when you are abroad, as you do in the DR?
4. When you think of home, what place comes to mind first? DR or US?
5. When you dream at night, where do the dreams take place? DR or US?
6. And if you could pick a place to be buried because you love that place more than anything else, where would it be? DR or US?
If you answer more than 2/3 of the questions here, you are as much a Dominican as the native living down the road from your home!
I have lived in the DR for 4 years now---
And I find myself still fighting some of the extenuations of the society while embracing, fiercely, other aspects of the society.
I suppose one could say that I am still going through the culture shock front and haven't yet quite penetrated it to the world beyound.
Still, all in all, it is evident to me that I have adjusted somewhat to the world around me in that I now accept some of those aspects of this society that I found abhorrent when I first arrived.
Gotta go eat my lunch before Margarita takes the rolling pin to me.
Texas Bill
And I find myself still fighting some of the extenuations of the society while embracing, fiercely, other aspects of the society.
I suppose one could say that I am still going through the culture shock front and haven't yet quite penetrated it to the world beyound.
Still, all in all, it is evident to me that I have adjusted somewhat to the world around me in that I now accept some of those aspects of this society that I found abhorrent when I first arrived.
Gotta go eat my lunch before Margarita takes the rolling pin to me.
Texas Bill
NalOwhs,
I applied your "test" to the UK as that is where I came from 12 years ago. I have absolutely no urge to visit there & only do so once every 2 years for medical checkups. When there, I feel like a foreigner & often think the only thing I have in common with people there is the language. "Home" is defintely here in the DR & it has felt that way for many years now. But I agree with Gringo, locals will always perceive me as a foreigner of course, although many are kind enough to refer to the English "Dominicana". I can honestly say it has never felt like a problem if you are inside my head, or perhaps more importantly inside my heart. Mind you, my family origins were Irish, so perhaps England was never "home" in the first place..........
I applied your "test" to the UK as that is where I came from 12 years ago. I have absolutely no urge to visit there & only do so once every 2 years for medical checkups. When there, I feel like a foreigner & often think the only thing I have in common with people there is the language. "Home" is defintely here in the DR & it has felt that way for many years now. But I agree with Gringo, locals will always perceive me as a foreigner of course, although many are kind enough to refer to the English "Dominicana". I can honestly say it has never felt like a problem if you are inside my head, or perhaps more importantly inside my heart. Mind you, my family origins were Irish, so perhaps England was never "home" in the first place..........