The Liberal In the Dr

johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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Right from the get go I want to state that I am thru and thru a conservative -Republicican voter here in the USA.That's the way I vote, invest, think, and basically run my affairs. That being said, what interests me,is the thinking of some of the posters on this board.
Over the past few months I have read posters take positions on subjects such as removing people from land that does not rightfully belong to them (ie Sosua), to concerns of people that question why power outages are MORE important than those that want to escape the misery of poverty in a yola, to subjects that one always get a rise out of the liberal sector.
So... I wonder, how strong is the liberal voice in the DR? Is it limited to the ex-pats on this board? Does it go beyond that and is their a voice other than the ex-pat take a part in anything that might make a difference on the life of a Dominican?
Since I have already stated where I am coming from, do not take that that I am inflexible in my thinking, but rather I am more interested in LEARNING what others have to say on this subject-the liberal in the DR.
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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Let's see if we can keep this on topic, please!
Any posts on US politics will be deleted, followed by a visit to the "Sin Bin".
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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'Liberal' means different things in different places. In Europe it means centre- left, in Latin America it is associated with neo-liberal economics, placing it on the right of the spectrum. You are writing from a US perspective, so I understand 'Liberal' to mean left wing.

The DR is very much like Europe where the old socialists and communists have either mellowed and now identify with mainstream centrist parties - all three main political parties in the DR fall into that category - or are concentrated in smaller minority parties such as Fuerza de la Revolucion which is the former communist party. Many prominent leftists were killed during Balaguer's 12 years. The PRD and the PLD party and many of their prominent fugures have their roots in the left, but you wouldn't know that from looking at them now.

On the whole, Dominican politics today is not so much about ideology as it is about personalities and interests. Most people are apolitical even though they might have a strong party affiliation. I also find that often when people of different political persuasions meet, there is an unspoken truce and no contentious issues are raised, unlike the UK for example where many people I know would never be able to have a friendship with a person who supports the other party.

Beyond politics, we would have to define what makes a Dominican 'liberal' perspective as opposed to a conservative one. You can't use the same yardsticks to measure it as you do in the US.

Many of the people I know in the DR are what I would call left-leaning in their social, economic and environmental attitudes, but they still might vote for any of the main parties (even the more conservative PRSC). These are educated, mainly middle class and in some cases wealthy (in the UK they might be disparaged as 'champagne socialists'/in the US 'limousine liberals'). They tend to work in the NGO sector, media, education, the arts and the legal and medical professions.

Then you have the grassroots activists in the barrios and the campo - people I have worked with who dedicate their lives to community organisations, campaigning and running projects to improve the lives of poor people. Some, but not all of these have a limited education. Many learned to read and write in later life. Others have got themselves through university, one example is a human rights lawyer I know, a single mother in her late 20s who lives and works in one of the poorest barrios in Santo Domingo.

When it comes to international politics, a large proportion of Dominicans tend to the left if that can be defined by opposition to US foreign policy or sympathy for Castro - which is usually an expression of Latin American nationalism more than anything else. But these are dangerous subjects to raise here so I will say no more.

I am not Dominican but I am married to one who could be defined as a mellowed lefty. He votes for one of the mainstream parties but still gets invited to the annual Fuerza de la Revolucion Christmas party. :confused:

Hope this helps answer your question.

Chiri
 

getonwithit

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Mar 17, 2003
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thank you for that post chiri.

i have never been clear what americans meant by 'liberal'. as you imply, the meaning seems to have a different perspective in europe.

i agree with your post 100%.
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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Pib said:
Wow, how did I miss this thread? Interesting analysis Chiri, I learnt quite a bit.


So did I. I think that Johne and myself follow two similar trains of thought. We both view American political, economic and social views in the same light AND we both make the mistake (sorry John) of attempting to apply the American way of thinking in general to the DR when it so frequently cannot be.

Chiri's response was chock full of information and class, as always.

Larry
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Thanks for the positive feedback. I took pains to describe things from an impartial point of view, with no axes to grind except for the fact that there is a side to Dominican life that not everyone here is exposed to.

Something I was trying to say is that many people might be simultaneously 'liberal' on some issues, and 'conservative' on others. This is not exclusive to the DR. But where else but the DR would you meet the equivalent of a die-hard Balaguerista who wears Che Guevara T shirts, or former communists sipping Rum and Pepsi under Brugal sponsorship banners as they listen attentively to a lengthy speech about the evils of neo-liberalism and globalisation? :cool:

Chiri
 

johne

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Many thanks and

VERY informative Chiri.Thought this post might interest those that were getting tired of sankie treads and "I Left my Heart In San Domingo" treads
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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Chiri:

In your appreciation, is it fair to say that the PLD is more to the left than the PRD? The PLD's foreign policies are more aligned with Europe but the PRD has strong ties with the socialists in Europe (more importantly with Spain, where they were like u?a y mugre with Felipe Gonz?lez, who not-so-coincidentally like the PRD went down in a hail of accusations of corruption).

As you say, it is hard to tell them apart when it comes to their leanings. The PRSC is pretty secured as a centre-right party.
 

Chirimoya

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Left and right mean so little these days, and as I said above it always seems to me that party allegiances are much more to do with personalities and interests than any sort of ideology.

How can we measure the PLD and PRD's left/right wing credentials? If we go by the track record of the main party activists and leaders, both parties have their fair share of former radical lefties, but then again there are also some much more conservative types. I include Hipolito Mejia in that category: he was a PRSC member earlier in his political career. Both parties also have establishment figures from the business world among their ranks.

I have to stress that my knowledge here is pretty superficial, but I understand that the PLD split away from the PRD as a result of a clash of personalities, not ideology. I read that Juan Bosch had a reputation as a leftist when he was in the PRD but during his time as PLD president he drifted to the right, eventually embracing neo-liberal economics, which in itself is guaranteed to make the traditional left spit.

If we were to go by their policies, I doubt there would be much of a difference. PRD scores higher on the populist stakes, but populism is not exclusive to the left. The supporters of both parties span the ideological spectrum as far as I can tell, but the impression one gets is that the PLD supporter base is - on the whole - more educated.

I would be interested in hearing more views - including yours, Pib - on this.

Chiri
 

thick_neck

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Apr 6, 2004
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Great observations, Chiri...

Gone are the days of true leftist movements; no more 1J4 and MPD parties.

There was time during the late 1970s and early 1980s that being a member of the PCD would qualify you--provided that you were bright, too--for a student visa to study medicine and/or engineering in the old USSR; then comeback to DR and become a big capitalist dog.

Chiri, are Antonio and Narciso related?
 
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Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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thick_neck said:
Gone are the days of true leftist movements; no more 1J4 and MPD parties.

There was time during the late 1970s and early 1980s that being a member of the PCD would qualify you--provided that you were bright, too--for a student visa to study medicine and/or engineering in the old USSR; then comeback to DR and become a big capitalist dog.

Chiri, are Antonio and Narciso related?

Good points there. You come across it these days when they mention the CV of some new public appointee, and it turns out they studied in Moscow, Prague or Budapest pre 1989. Dead giveaway that.

Narciso and Antonio are brothers. One leads Fuerza de la Revolucion, the other is a prominent businessman who headed the Comisi?n de Reforma de la Empresa P?blica. Must make for some interesting discussion at family gatherings.

Chiri