Vote Required to Increase Use Of Alternate Energy Sources

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Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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After several months of running the generator 16-18 hours a day, and with the price of a barrel of oil rising almost daily, there is increasing interest in decreasing dependence on the generator and electricity grid by making greater use of alternate energy sources. True, with the change in government there is likely to be a decrease in the hours the planta must run, but the price oil is likely to go even higher, if only because China is now competing so aggressively on the world market for larger and larger quantities of oil.

If a condo complex wants to siognificantly reduce the hours it runs its generator, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?

Owners would have the option of buying and installing an inverter, but this would be their option. They can sit in the dark if they choose during Edenorte blackouts.

If, to insure that there was hot water regardless of blackouts and reduced operation of the generator, the condo complex wanted to install solar water heaters on the roof, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?
 
T

Texas Bill

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Feb 11, 2003
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Ken said:
After several months of running the generator 16-18 hours a day, and with the price of a barrel of oil rising almost daily, there is increasing interest in decreasing dependence on the generator and electricity grid by making greater use of alternate energy sources. True, with the change in government there is likely to be a decrease in the hours the planta must run, but the price oil is likely to go even higher, if only because China is now competing so aggressively on the world market for larger and larger quantities of oil.

If a condo complex wants to siognificantly reduce the hours it runs its generator, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?

Owners would have the option of buying and installing an inverter, but this would be their option. They can sit in the dark if they choose during Edenorte blackouts.

If, to insure that there was hot water regardless of blackouts and reduced operation of the generator, the condo complex wanted to install solar water heaters on the roof, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?
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Ken;

I assume that the Condo in question is a Corporation/Association with a Constitution and By-Laws as a foundation agreement.
I'm not an attorney, but I think that the answer to that would be to review the agreement all of you entered into when the Condo assoc was formed. if the question wasn't addressed, it would require an ammendment to that agreement to be included and voted on by the members. Such ammendments usually require a 2/3 affirmative vote to carry and even then many times trouble brews from those that don't wish to comply.

Texas Bill
 
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Escott

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Ken said:
After several months of running the generator 16-18 hours a day, and with the price of a barrel of oil rising almost daily, there is increasing interest in decreasing dependence on the generator and electricity grid by making greater use of alternate energy sources. True, with the change in government there is likely to be a decrease in the hours the planta must run, but the price oil is likely to go even higher, if only because China is now competing so aggressively on the world market for larger and larger quantities of oil.

If a condo complex wants to siognificantly reduce the hours it runs its generator, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?

Owners would have the option of buying and installing an inverter, but this would be their option. They can sit in the dark if they choose during Edenorte blackouts.

If, to insure that there was hot water regardless of blackouts and reduced operation of the generator, the condo complex wanted to install solar water heaters on the roof, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?
Click to expand...
The hot water system is paid for and by the individual owners in the complex Ken. Why would the board push this cost on the individual owners even if it was in their range of things to do which of course it ISN'T.

One other thing is that it is impossible to live in some of these condos without A/C and although your condo supposedly has better ventilation than that others do YOU think that it would be fair to make people sleep in a pool of sweat? Inverters will NOT run A/C unless you spend a lot of money on one that would be much bigger than what you have been quoted on.

I want to see how you think you are going to make me pay for this solar crap and sleep in a pool of sweat to please some people. This is going to get interesting. Matter of fact it will get more interesting than some of the other questionable things.

If you turn off the generator for one hour I will install my own generator on my back porch to insure that I have both hot water and a/c. How about that?

I am sure that wont please some but what the heck.
 
T

Texas Bill

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It's not the Inverter alone---

that needsto be addressed.

In order to properly supply the power, the inverter must have the required number of batteries with sufficient Amp/Hours of reserve to supply the loads imposed. For a Condo complex, you would probably need batteries of the 1000 amp/hr variety and plenty of them. Trojan, and the like are 1) 6volt/200 amp/hr. Two are needed to make up the 12 volt requirement for the inverter supply. Figure the gross load of the complex X the number of hours of proposed operation and that will be the minimum amount of power needed to be stored in the batteries. I don't think Solar alone can furnish that amount of power. BTW, I'm referring to the use of Air-Con with the other Reqs of hot water, etc.
Sounds like a VERY expensive project. Might be better to convert the entire complex to 12 volts and use batteries altogether.

Texas Bill
 
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johne

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Jun 28, 2003
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The first question

Ken said:
After several months of running the generator 16-18 hours a day, and with the price of a barrel of oil rising almost daily, there is increasing interest in decreasing dependence on the generator and electricity grid by making greater use of alternate energy sources. True, with the change in government there is likely to be a decrease in the hours the planta must run, but the price oil is likely to go even higher, if only because China is now competing so aggressively on the world market for larger and larger quantities of oil.

If a condo complex wants to siognificantly reduce the hours it runs its generator, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?

Owners would have the option of buying and installing an inverter, but this would be their option. They can sit in the dark if they choose during Edenorte blackouts.

If, to insure that there was hot water regardless of blackouts and reduced operation of the generator, the condo complex wanted to install solar water heaters on the roof, would more than a simple majority of owners have to agree?
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that comes to my mind, and BTW I know nothing about how your by-laws are set up, is . Is the board required to provide essential services to all the occupants of the building? On a equal basis? Of course essential services would include hot water, lights(as had previously) and air conditioning. I say air conditioning only because I equate that service to heat in North America.
My second thought/question is - who would be responsible/liable if the change over of the system didnt work? And by work I mean-at the same level of service that the owners had before the changeover.
I would think, my 2 cents only, you would be wise in getting an unaminous(sp) vote.
 
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221

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i was wondering

how the associations were managing the budgets given they are now the electrical utility. how is it fair for the owners that have vacant units?
 
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Dolores1

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As far as I know the vacant units have to pay the same as the occupied ones, unless there is a decision to the contrary made by the assembly. Some new buildings have installed meters on the power plants, so as those buildings that are not occupied, and thus are not using the planta, do not get billed for this extra expense. Of course the meters system is an added initial expense.

Most buildings in Santo Domingo, at least, put into effect some kind of rationing. If rationing didn't go into effect, then all had to pay the extra fuel bill. In our building an assembly was held to give the option -- at the meeting it was decided to cut down hours of the generator.

More and more buildings have rulings that authorize the management to cut services of those that are not in compliance with the payments agreed on by a majority.
 
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221

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Dolores said:
As far as I know the vacant units have to pay the same as the occupied ones, unless there is a decision to the contrary made by the assembly. Some new buildings have installed meters on the power plants, so as those buildings that are not occupied, and thus are not using the planta, do not get billed for this extra expense. Of course the meters system is an added initial expense.

Most buildings in Santo Domingo, at least, put into effect some kind of rationing. If rationing didn't go into effect, then all had to pay the extra fuel bill. In our building an assembly was held to give the option -- at the meeting it was decided to cut down hours of the generator.

More and more buildings have rulings that authorize the management to cut services of those that are not in compliance with the payments agreed on by a majority.
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but that would not relieve the owner of the financial liability?
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Dolores1

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No, the financial liability is kept. The condominium law in the Dominican Republic is one of the laws that work here and is enforceable. If you do not pay your dues, you risk a legal suit and the condominium taking over your apartment. It takes less than six months for this to happen.
 
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221

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how big a problem is it for absentee landlords with vacant units getting new & large bills for electricity? sounds like a nightmare to me. am i to understand the associations are being charged for electricity that is not being supplied from the utility too?
 
K

Ken

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Dolores said:
No, the financial liability is kept. The condominium law in the Dominican Republic is one of the laws that work here and is enforceable. If you do not pay your dues, you risk a legal suit and the condominium taking over your apartment. It takes less than six months for this to happen.
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Dolores is right. Unless there is a rule to the contrary (and that requires a vote of 3/4 of the owners) everybody pays. In our condo, if you are 30 days behind in paying your monthly assessment you get a letter saying that a lien will be put on the apartment if you don't pay within the next 30 days. If still unpaid, it goes to the Land Tribunal for action against the delinquent owner.

221 said:
how the associations were managing the budgets given they are now the electrical utility. how is it fair for the owners that have vacant units?
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Owners not occupying their apartments consider it unfair to pay the higher fuel bills. But you can make an argument that those who don't use electricity should be charged more of the generator expense than those who do. Diesel engines are made to work hard. They need to be at least at 50% of capacity, and 75% is better. Run under a too light load and the generator begins to have problems. They fill up with gunk that wasn't burned off and cylinder get a shellac like coating on the sides. Whether owner A uses electricity or not, the generator is still going to burn the same number of gallons per hour. But if there are enough owners like A, the efficiency of the generator suffers.
 
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221

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ken

how much higher are the expenses per unit/month for nongrid electricity in your complex since the blackouts started?
 
K

Ken

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221, we have always had blackout periods, but nothing like the past couple of months. From July 1 - August 15, we were averaging 16 hours of generator operation a day. Additionally, the price of diesel has been going up and up. We are now paying more than double what we were paying when the budget for this year was being prepared.

Can't give you figures without getting the input of the administrator, but the increase is significant. For this reason, many condo and apartment complexes have reduced hours of service of the generator. We haven't as yet, but it is being considered.

We are optomistic that grid service is going to improve, but we see no hope that diesel prices are going to drop. Also, as diesel prices increase, so do the rates of Edenorte.

So far there has not been an increase in the montly maintenance fees, but we are projecting a significant deficit if there isn't a dramatic change.
 
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Escott

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221 said:
how the associations were managing the budgets given they are now the electrical utility. how is it fair for the owners that have vacant units?
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All owners have been metered for use whether it came from the grid or the generator.

One thing to remember is that the generator works at night even just to power the outside lights and that costs the same to run as when you are running 20 a/c units that are metered. We have a 80KW Generator that when not run at 50% is inefficient.
 
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Eddy

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Jan 1, 2002
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Escott said:
All owners have been metered for use whether it came from the grid or the generator.

One thing to remember is that the generator works at night even just to power the outside lights and that costs the same to run as when you are running 20 a/c units that are metered. We have a 80KW Generator that when not run at 50% is inefficient.
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Is there enough "Spare" energy to supply 3rd. parties. i.e. other homes etc. near you. If so and isn't allready done, you could "generate" extra revenues that could help with the operating costs. Works here at the condos, we have 6 "customers" that help out a lot with the costs.
 
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221

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sounds fair since its all metered
cant live without electricity

how are the metered nongrid kwh charges calculated?
 
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Escott

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Eddy said:
Is there enough "Spare" energy to supply 3rd. parties. i.e. other homes etc. near you. If so and isn't allready done, you could "generate" extra revenues that could help with the operating costs. Works here at the condos, we have 6 "customers" that help out a lot with the costs.
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We supply electric from the planta to one person and had been to 2 people but both is against condo regulations. Some people actually claim to benefit from the one person so to hell with what is right and wrong in that case and they will do it illegally anyway.

Politics are so fine:)

Scott
 
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Argo

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Aug 5, 2004
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Escott said:
All owners have been metered for use whether it came from the grid or the generator.

One thing to remember is that the generator works at night even just to power the outside lights and that costs the same to run as when you are running 20 a/c units that are metered. We have a 80KW Generator that when not run at 50% is inefficient.
Click to expand...

You are incorrect is saying "One thing to remember is that the generator works at night even just to power the outside lights and that costs the same to run as when you are running 20 a/c units that are metered"

Think of the laws of thermodynamics, "energy is not lost or created, just transfered"

the Generator may be less "efficient" (Do not confuse efficeincy with cost per hour) at lower capacity, but it will consume more fuel as more laod is added

I believe what you are trying to say is the higher the load the less the cost per unit of generated power

It is rather futile to say a 400hp diesel engine at idle consumes the same amount of fuel as one under ANY load
 
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