First World going out of Fashion?

Interesting point and idea you make. Having lived and worked In Russia for many years, the thing I like best about second/third world countries is that you have the option of paying for what you need or use. Buy the bottled water if what comes from the faucet doesn't suit you. Hire a security service if the police can't/won't do a good enough job.
I suppose consumerism is what makes a country develope, the constant motion of money. But at some point, it seems the masses begin to think in terms of entitlements. Since there is no free lunch, the "haves" begin to have to pay for the "have nots". At that point I think society begins the downward spiral.
My personal way of life is to have what I want without regard for "keeping up with the Jones".

Why I decided to live in the DR is to get away from the greed, materialism and political correctness. I too agree that I wish to simply buy what I need and not have to worry about keeping up with the Jones. My investments made through breaking my backside in the first world has afforded me the life that I choose to live in the third world. I am quite content!

How is there no materialism and consumerism in the DR?

I am surrounded by both and have found that not many people here - whether they have money or not - share my rejection of their excesses.

Interesting. And for some strange reason, I thought I was the only one to notice this. Whenever I return to States the over abundance of marketing is the first thing I notice. This car, that watch, prettier than last years model, slimmer, healthier...etc.

It all so sickening. I realize those efforts are an important part of a creating a strong economy, but damn. I dont have an answer. I just enjoy being away from all of it in the DR.

Just my two pesos worth.
TEHAMA

Expanding on my previous post.

IMHO Dominican society is very materialistic and consumerist. There is very little of the cynicism or criticism about the over commercialisation of society that one finds in N America and Europe. I haven?t met many Dominicans who are striving to live a less materialistic life and downsize in the way that many N Americans and European do. Except Mr Chiri!

Almost all the younger people I know are eager to start earning money, turn into their parents and obtain material things. Their priorities are to get themselves a mobile phone and a nice car, whereas many of their N American and European counterparts might prefer to spend some time travelling before settling down and joining the rat race.

I think this mentality cuts across society as a whole. Posters on this board have commented that poor young women put too much priority on spending their money on mobile phones and on looking good.

There may be some expats here who come to the DR to get away from consumerism and materialism but on the whole people are here because they can live comfortably for less.

Nal0whs said:

It's very interesting to note that many people want to move to the DR to get away from the consumerism that is so rampant in the first world.

My question is this, do you think that the consumer driven world (ie. First World) will eventually become less consumer driven?

People seem to be up their eyeballs in stress and dislike for the consumerism culture and many opt to leave it (by moving to the DR), but there will be others who will want to change the consumer culture of the 1st world. I would like to know if people here think that capitalism will be "readjusted" to a less consumer driven type?

Are many young people (more so than before) rejecting consumerism or at least confirming their disgust for the consumerism culture?

Moderator, I think I should have posted this on the debate forum, if so just move it. Thank you.

Also, this is connected to the DR. I'm trying to figure out why people move to the DR and as such, the consumerism question is one that cannot be overshadowed.

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The DR is much more consumer driven and Dominicans, on the average, are much more materialistic than the average American.

Just look at what the Ratio is of Dominicans who want to go to the US as compared to Americans who want to relocate to what they believe is a less materialistic Society.
Then Look and see why so many people want immigrate to the US.

It is where the $$$ is.

There will always be a small percentage of people of people who reject consumerism. Luckily they are just a tiny minoroity.

Tony C said:

There will always be a small percentage of people of people who reject consumerism. Luckily they are just a tiny minoroity.

Click to expand...

But do you agree that it is healthier when it is taken with a pinch of salt? I think people in the DR can be quite naive sometimes and embrace some aspects of consumerism with too much enthusiasm.

After spending 5 weeks in the UK, I found the ?keep up with the neighbors? mentality very much alive and kicking, sickening actually! The DR has nothing on the UK when you talk about consumerism or materialism.

For example? The pressure that my nephews and their friends put on their families in order to conform or fit in was huge. They are constantly flooded with media that is focused on consumerism or materialism, media that is dictating their way of life.
When a football player can earn millions of euros for shaving his head with a razor or his club can make back his multi-million euro signup fee in a few days with merchandising, then you get an idea of how powerful the ?keep up with the neighbors? mentality really is.

The Dominican middle class kids I have come across here do not even come close to their European counterparts. Compared to some countries, their exposure to the consumerism or materialism media is minimal and their access to the promoted ?goods or services? is limited.

Keeping up with the Jones

I own several apartment houses in New York. When I decide to increase the equity in my real estate by improving the structure ect. I see the people next to me doing the same thing. That's great! It is when I might install siding or new windows, the neighbors do the same exact thing except they purchase something extremely expensive. I decided to install flower boxes, a few weeks later the neighbors do the same exact thing except their flower boxes were huge! I am simply improving the value of my property because it is "income property". What are the neighbors doing? Keeping up with me? Is it a contest? I own several pieces of property in the Dominican Republic including a furniture store and several taxi vans. However, I decide to live in simplicity in Jamao del Norte where the country people (don't call them Camposinos, you will insult them) live. This is where everyone helps their neighbors and aren't interested in keeping up with the Jones.

Just my 2 pesos (maybe 3) worth.

I disagree (respectfully of course!). I think consumerism shouts from kids wanting up to the minute clothes, yells from cellphones being seen as a necessity & possitively screetches from the desire to acquire cars. The only difference is the ability to 'pay' for what is wanted. Here middle class Dominicans enter into exorbitantly expensive car purchasing schemes as if no one had ever heard of saving up for something BEFORE you go & buy it. If instant gratification isn't consumerism, then I don't know what is.
I should clarify - it was Robert I disagreed with, not the next poster! There is a difference between town & country here,that I would agree with.

Lambada said:

I disagree (respectfully of course!). I think consumerism shouts from kids wanting up to the minute clothes, yells from cellphones being seen as a necessity & possitively screetches from the desire to acquire cars. The only difference is the ability to 'pay' for what is wanted. Here middle class Dominicans enter into exorbitantly expensive car purchasing schemes as if no one had ever heard of saving up for something BEFORE you go & buy it. If instant gratification isn't consumerism, then I don't know what is.
I should clarify - it was Robert I disagreed with, not the next poster! There is a difference between town & country here,that I would agree with.

Click to expand...

The kids here do not get anywhere near the same amount of media exposure as kids in the UK, their levels of ?materialism? are much lower in my opinion. Yes, I?m talking about kids here that have access to Internet, cable or Sat TV.

Due to the massive difference in ?able to purchase? market size, 1st world media has become very skilled in creating consumerism or materialism.
It penetrates virtually every aspect of everyone?s life, which is not the case in the DR.

Most middle class kids (late teen) I know here in Santo Domingo are not into exorbitantly expensive car purchasing schemes. Maybe it?s different in Puerto Plata?

Desire is one thing, reality is a whole different ball game.

If I may speak for the natives please...*

Consumerism is alive and kicking here, maybe it isn't of the same type or in the same scale as it is seen in some/most 'developed' nations. But the devil is among us. While I know quite a few of my countrymen that are trully frugal people (the father of yours trully is a particularly annoying example of parsimony), the fact is that people here also want to go faster than the wheels allow, our only brake is of course our love for procrastination.

Impecuniously yours,
Pib

*Not really, I speak for myself only

Not just a Dominican thing, I stress, but I have come across several families, none of them mega-rich, where parents buying a new car for a teenager (18th birthday, graduation from high school) is considered standard practice. I know it happens in other Latin American countries but I don't know anyone in Europe who has done that. Maybe it's just the type of people I know, but the closest might be inheriting a parent's ancient Honda Civic! You just have to speak to anyone who has children at the most expensive schools in SD to hear about the pressures they are put under (obligatory designer clothes, etc.), and the treatment they get because their parents (or themselves) are not perceived to have a flash enough car.

Pib and I have a friend in the upmarket wedding business and she has endless stories to tell of extreme excess and waste. Even when the wedding is not so upmarket most people insist on all the expensive trappings, even if it means going into debt or sacrificing other more enduring necessities in life. I don't think there is anything wrong with enjoying life how one chooses, but sometimes people's priorities do not appear to make sense.

Robert, I think the Dominican teenagers you know must be particularly nice ones. Here most people have cable TV and are exposed to dozens of channels. In the UK most people only have 5: Cable/digital/satellite TV is getting more and more popular but it is not yet a majority thing as far as I can tell. I agree totally about the influence of brainless celeb-worship that is rife in the UK, but then again here you have multi-millionaire baseball players as role models too.

I agree Robert that desire is one thing & reality may be something different, but if the desire is there, then that means that materialism as a value system is there. If it wasn't, then common sense would take over. Would I spend a lot of money on a brand new jeepeta here? No, because it'll get scratched by a concho 5 mins after I leave the dealer & I'd be forever worrying about it. I prefer a used 1988 jeepeta which is solid & reliable & has a rebuilt chassis so is safe.....if it gets a few scratches, I do not worry. And I can afford a new one. Yet I see a whole lot of people whom I know cannot afford a new one driving.....a new one.
I think consumerism is unavoidable. It seems to have hit every developing society (although I'd love for someone to prove me wrong!). Rousseau's notion of 'the noble savage' (his words, not mine) does not apply in the 21st century, it would seem.
Just personally, I think there are other sets of values which are more important, for example, love of family. The DR has this one very strongly, one of the reasons I live here. Another more important value, to me personally, is the innate worth & dignity of the individual. I have been both relatively poor & pretty well off during the time I have lived here, in financial terms. But I have always had the richness of the things I consider really important.