Crime and violence in DR, how will it stop?

Riu

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Jun 11, 2004
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I would like to hear fellow members' opinions and insights on the recent spike of crime and violence in DR.

Do you think that this is a new long term and worsening trend? Other than economics, what are the underlying causes for this? As a local or expat, how is this affecting your daily lives? For foreigners thinking to expat to DR, is this the right move? What do you think must be done to curve the crime and violence spree?

If the police and politicians are so corrupt over there, how is this going to get fixed? Is the new Administration doing something about this? Why not impose harsher laws and punishment for criminals?

Most important, will it be safe to live there indefinitely? Do you think that the current situation in temporary?
 

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
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again and again

Riu said:
I would like to hear fellow members' opinions and insights on the recent spike of crime and violence in DR.

Do you think that this is a new long term and worsening trend? Other than economics, what are the underlying causes for this? As a local or expat, how is this affecting your daily lives? For foreigners thinking to expat to DR, is this the right move? What do you think must be done to curve the crime and violence spree?

If the police and politicians are so corrupt over there, how is this going to get fixed? Is the new Administration doing something about this? Why not impose harsher laws and punishment for criminals?

Most important, will it be safe to live there indefinitely? Do you think that the current situation in temporary?

Like everything else, no need to impose harsher laws, but inforce the ones they have!! It's still on the whole safer here than compareable areas in the states, and some other countries. Police corruption will not be curbed until the Police are held accountable for their actions.
 

Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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Years ago, while living in a town of midwestern Venezuela, the central government in Caracas decided to intervene after many high profile crime cases. Nobody dared to leave their homes after dark, it was practically a state of seige... The government fired outright the entire police force of about 300. Crime immediately dropped about 70%.

Mirador
 

Mauricio

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Nov 18, 2002
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One way it affects me is that when I drive in the city and I see a policeofficer on a motorcycle I lock all the doors of my car (if they are not locked already) and keep an eye on him in my mirror....

So basically I'm getting paranoid....
 

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
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maybe

Mauricio said:
One way it affects me is that when I drive in the city and I see a policeofficer on a motorcycle I lock all the doors of my car (if they are not locked already) and keep an eye on him in my mirror....

So basically I'm getting paranoid....



paranoid yes, stupid no. I like the comment in the previous post about crime dropping by 70% after firing the police. Should we try it here?
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Mirador said:
Years ago, while living in a town of midwestern Venezuela, the central government in Caracas decided to intervene after many high profile crime cases. Nobody dared to leave their homes after dark, it was practically a state of seige... The government fired outright the entire police force of about 300. Crime immediately dropped about 70%.

Mirador

That is very interesting to say the least.

The recent crime wave I'm not worried too much about. Of course, I have suggested to all the ladies in my family to take a crash course in self defense. I also constantly stress the need to lock the doors when driving, carrying pepper spray or some sort of weapon in the vehicle at all times, and being warry of their sorroundings whenever they are going to get in and out of the car.

I also put alot of emphasis on not provoking any crime. That means, not getting engage in heated debates with strangers on public or private, not parking or walking in unlit areas and always be in an area with alot of people around.

Of course, these are good habits to have crime or no crime, but more so now than ever here in SDQ. Still, crime is not much of a problem here, though it is growing.

Some ways to decline the crime rate is by increasing the employment opportunities in the country, government self control with their printing machine to avoid hyperinflation, more control and surveilance of Dominicans who have been deported from abroad, creating of more youth programs to keep many kids "busy" rather than wondering the streets, heavy enforcement of laws in the country, and have less tolerance for criminals of any kind.

That last one would allow for criminals (whether its petty crime or murder) to be locked up while waiting for his/her trial, given a quick trial with the jury consisting of 10 or more people from the vicinity where the suppose crime took place, and in the end, whether the person is found guilty or not, two months in prison in addition to any extra time if found guilty.

The purpose of the two months in prison is to give the "criminal" an idea of the hell that awaits him/her if they do another crime. Also, because there are some criminals that do a crime but are not given a trial due to a lack of evidence, that would let them know of what awaits them if they do another crime and get caught red handed.

And if the person truly was innocent, that would simply ensure that person would remain "good" and since Dominicans love the "bochinches", he/she would become a sort of advertisement for the horrible experience the jails awaits for those who commit a crime.

For extremely severe crimes (rape, incest, murder, kidnappings, etc) the person if found guilty should get the death penalty by lynching (its much more economical that way).

Also, there should be a reform in the appearance of the military and national police uniforms. The new uniforms should be done in such a way that it would be hard to reproduce and it would make it easier to distiguish legitimate police against a low life.
 
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Argo

*** Sin Bin ***
Aug 5, 2004
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Impossible

Nal0whs said:
That is very interesting to say the least.

The recent crime wave I'm not worried too much about. Of course, I have suggested to all the ladies in my family to take a crash course in self defense. I also constantly stress the need to lock the doors when driving, carrying pepper spray or some sort of weapon in the vehicle at all times, and being warry of their sorroundings whenever they are going to get in and out of the car.

I also put alot of emphasis on not provoking any crime. That means, not getting engage in heated debates with strangers on public or private, not parking or walking in unlit areas and always be in an area with alot of people around.

Of course, these are good habits to have crime or no crime, but more so now than ever here in SDQ. Still, crime is not much of a problem here, though it is growing.

Some ways to decline the crime rate is by increasing the employment opportunities in the country, government self control with their printing machine to avoid hyperinflation, more control and surveilance of Dominicans who have been deported from abroad, creating of more youth programs to keep many kids "busy" rather than wondering the streets, heavy enforcement of laws in the country, and have less tolerance for criminals of any kind.

That last one would allow for criminals (whether its petty crime or murder) to be locked up while waiting for his/her trial, given a quick trial with the jury consisting of 10 or more people from the vicinity where the suppose crime took place, and in the end, whether the person is found guilty or not, two months in prison in addition to any extra time if found guilty.

The purpose of the two months in prison is to give the "criminal" an idea of the hell that awaits him/her if they do another crime. Also, because there are some criminals that do a crime but are not given a trial due to a lack of evidence, that would let them know of what awaits them if they do another crime and get caught red handed.

And if the person truly was innocent, that would simply ensure that person would remain "good" and since Dominicans love the "bochinches", he/she would become a sort of advertisement for the horrible experience the jails awaits for those who commit a crime.

For extremely severe crimes (rape, incest, murder, kidnappings, etc) the person if found guilty should get the death penalty by lynching (its much more economical that way).

Also, there should be a reform in the appearance of the military and national police uniforms. The new uniforms should be done in such a way that it would be hard to reproduce and it would make it easier to distiguish legitimate police against a low life.


You advocate putting innocent people in prison for two months to teach them the horrors of incarceration as a method of prevention?

Will you volunteer to report to Prison Saturday for your 60 day lesson? I thought not, that is only for the "common" folks
 

Jan

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Jan 3, 2002
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Santo Domingo Este
www.colonialzone-dr.com
I don't leave my area

Now I don't walk around at night like I used to. Here in Zona Colonial its just not safe.
Theres lots of police around now. But I don't trust them.
I was robbed a few weeks ago. I'm not stupid. I've sort of concidered myself street wise. I've lived on the streets in USA before and I know what to watch out for. But I was stilltaken by suprise. They got me.
I went to the police station to report the crime so I can get my cedula back. The sargent asked me what the theif looked like. I told him he looked like a police man. They all stopped but laughed it off. I didn't go there to report the stolen stuff in my purse. I know I'll never get that back. I just went for the report to get my documents.

I feel most times now that the police are involved with the crimes. Lately its getting worse. I will only go in the park in front of my house at night. And there only when there are people out. I am nervous to even take my jewelry around to sell. I'm too worried about being robbed. I only carr what I can carry in my pocketsd. And this looks ugly....pockets buldging out. But its a little more secure.

Sure hope this changes soon. Does anyone see a revolution happening soon? Its just in the last few months the feeling in the streets here are changing. Seems that noone trusts noone.

Yet there are many good humans around. I just think they are staying closer to home than they used to.

Yet...still love this country and hope to live here forever
 

Riu

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Jun 11, 2004
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what to do?

So, is a general consensus that the local police are not to be trusted and most likely corrupt?

I do agree that more employment would reduce crime but to what percentage? It seems there are many deportees we knew crime to teach to locals, once they serve their time here, how are they tracked once in SDQ? It is legal to do so?

In regards to the youths, are there any know programs anybody could mention to keep youths out the streets? I think these programs would greatly help in reducing crime.
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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Since The ENTIRE Dominican SYSTEM is Corrupt,so are the police!

But since the police have always been corrupt,they are not responsible for most of the increase in crimes in the DR.The increase in "Street Crimes" is due to the increase in the sale of "Street Drugs"!"Dealers" taking out retribution against other dealers, but most is due to the "addicts" getting money to "buy"!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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Nal0whs, Your idea on keeping innocent people behind bars for two months to teach them what it would be like "if" they did commit a crime is rediculous. I don't want to spend two months in a Dominican Jail. Do you?

Touching on what CC said, the availibility of drugs and their use is generally directly related to spikes or dips in street level crimes and home burglaries no matter what part of the worrld you are in. If the police were corrupt before and doing x,y,z.....and they are still corrupt, they will still be doing x,y,z and their activities would have little or no influence on crime stats. In NYC in the mid 80's, we had a HUGE increase in street level crime. Coincidentally, a new drug (crack) had just hit the streets. This crime wave continued through the early nineties and suddenly, crime dipped. Everyone asked, "what happened"? The politicians all stepped in and pointed to whatever crime fighting methods they had implemented in an effort to take credit. The truth was that the crack epidemic had come to an end. Until the next drug is created and hits the streets, crime will remain at their curent lower levels in US inner cities.

The economy may have a little to do with DR's sudden burst in crime but not much. It always comes back to whatever drug is on the streets and it's availability. Really makes no difference where you are.

Larry
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Larry said:
Nal0whs, Your idea on keeping innocent people behind bars for two months to teach them what it would be like "if" they did commit a crime is rediculous. I don't want to spend two months in a Dominican Jail. Do you?

Larry

Who said you would spend two month in prison? I mean, you have to be accused of a crime first and if found guilty you get what you deserve, but if found innocent then you get two months.

Its not like innocent people are going to be randomly picked up from the street and thrown in jail. It will all go through due process.

However, that's the point. Innocent people who get caught in the mambo limbo of the police don't want to go to jail. They will make it very clear how bad a jail is once they experience it a bit. The ENTIRE PURPOSE is so they can warn the would be criminals through their "chismes" about what is waiting for them at the local cuartel.

I don't want to go to jail either, but if I do go for two months, I sure will make more than my case to let everyone know what its like.

Now, do you think it might have an effect on those criminals once they hear what this innocent person went through? Don't you think the criminal might think that if an innocent person gets a bit of hell, what would it be like for a real criminal?

It will all work well.
 

Larry

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Nal0whs said:
Who said you would spend two month in prison? I mean, you have to be accused of a crime first and if found guilty you get what you deserve, but if found innocent then you get two months.

I don't want to go to jail either, but if I do go for two months, I sure will make more than my case to let everyone know what its like.

Now, do you think it might have an effect on those criminals once they hear what this innocent person went through? Don't you think the criminal might think that if an innocent person gets a bit of hell, what would it be like for a real criminal?

It will all work well.

So, if I am falsely accused of rape and the doctor finds the DNA belongs to someone else or the woman recants her statemenet, I spend 2 months in jail anyway? I don't think so. What you are doing is opening up a window for people to falsely accuse people of crimes out of jealousy, vendetta or what have you. Imagine all the vicious women who would be accusing their ex-husbands,lovers of crimes just to see them spend two months in jail.

You can go to jail for two months and let me know what it is like if you want to.

I think the effect it would have on potential criminals to see innocent people going to jail is that they will say to themselves, " Hey, if I can go to jail for doing absolutely nothing, I may as well do the crime. At least I might get away with it. I might wind up in jail anyway"

I don't follow your logic at all.

Larry
 
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NALs

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Larry said:
So, if I am falsely accused of rape and the doctor finds the DNA belongs to someone else or the woman recants her statemenet, I spend 2 months in jail anyway? I don't think so. What you are doing is opening up a window for people to falsely accuse people of crimes out of jealousy, vendetta or what have you. Imagine all the vicious women who would be accusing their ex-husbands,lovers of crimes just to see them spend two months in jail.

You can go to jail for two months and let me know what it is like if you want to.

I think the effect it would have on potential criminals to see innicent people going to jail is that they will say to themselves, " Hey, if I can go to jail for doing absolutely nothing, I may as well do the crime. At least I might get away with it. I might wind up in jail anyway"

I don't follow your logic at all.

Larry
Whatever law is put in place would have its loop holes. You found one in my proposition, so I'll suggest more investigation before the trial goes in place. But, it can't be that bad.

If many women go around putting their husband in jail for two months because she think he is cheating on her (most of the time the women is correct), then most guy would probably make an effort to not cheat on their wives and vice-versa. What's so bad about a culture that values marriage above adultery, even if its out of fear?

And many criminals obviously have nothing to lose, but their lives. If they are found guilty, they get death penalty. Get the picture.

Guilty = death penalty
not guilty = a taste of hell

But, that is fine if you don't align your point of view with my vision, that is not my intention. My intention is simply to express my idea on how to solve this problem quickly and effectively, though not perfectly.

If you disagree with me, just put forth your proposition and let the average DR1 reader decide.
 

Larry

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Mar 22, 2002
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Nal0whs said:
Whatever law is put in place would have its loop holes. You found one in my proposition, so I'll suggest more investigation before the trial goes in place. But, it can't be that bad.

If many women go around putting their husband in jail for two months because she think he is cheating on her (most of the time the women is correct), then most guy would probably make an effort to not cheat on their wives and vice-versa. What's so bad about a culture that values marriage above adultery, even if its out of fear?

And many criminals obviously have nothing to lose, but their lives. If they are found guilty, they get death penalty. Get the picture.

Guilty = death penalty
not guilty = a taste of hell

But, that is fine if you don't align your point of view with my vision, that is not my intention. My intention is simply to express my idea on how to solve this problem quickly and effectively, though not perfectly.

If you disagree with me, just put forth your proposition and let the average DR1 reader decide.


Now you are threatening husbands who cheat with jail? You are really screwed up man. Dominican men don't need incentive to abandon their families, they do a good job of it without your rediculous proposition. Imagine how many families would be fatherless with your stupid law in place.

Gulity = death penalty and not guilty = taste in hell??? You really are nuts. I would never want to live in a country where you have any authority.

You want me to put forth a proposition to alleviate crime? I don't believe in dictatorships or police states. I do believe that putting an honest infrastructure in place, improving the economy and keeping drugs off the streets would be sufficient. There will always be some crime. Putting innocent people in jail is a stupid proposition.

Larry
 

Argo

*** Sin Bin ***
Aug 5, 2004
156
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Nal0whs said:
Who said you would spend two month in prison? I mean, you have to be accused of a crime first and if found guilty you get what you deserve, but if found innocent then you get two months.

Its not like innocent people are going to be randomly picked up from the street and thrown in jail. It will all go through due process.

However, that's the point. Innocent people who get caught in the mambo limbo of the police don't want to go to jail. They will make it very clear how bad a jail is once they experience it a bit. The ENTIRE PURPOSE is so they can warn the would be criminals through their "chismes" about what is waiting for them at the local cuartel.

I don't want to go to jail either, but if I do go for two months, I sure will make more than my case to let everyone know what its like.

Now, do you think it might have an effect on those criminals once they hear what this innocent person went through? Don't you think the criminal might think that if an innocent person gets a bit of hell, what would it be like for a real criminal?

It will all work well.

Now I know you are completely without knowledge of the real world, of human rights, of due process of anything with the exception of phony research

Any person who feels it is OK to let an innocent man serve one minute in jail to prove a deterrent is a very uneducated sick person
 

Argo

*** Sin Bin ***
Aug 5, 2004
156
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Larry said:
Now you are threatening husbands who cheat with jail? You are really screwed up man. Dominican men don't need incentive to abandon their families, they do a good job of it without your rediculous proposition. Imagine how many families would be fatherless with your stupid law in place.

Gulity = death penalty and not guilty = taste in hell??? You really are nuts. I would never want to live in a country where you have any authority.

You want me to put forth a proposition to alleviate crime? I don't believe in dictatorships or police states. I do believe that putting an honest infrastructure in place, improving the economy and keeping drugs off the streets would be sufficient. There will always be some crime. Putting innocent people in jail is a stupid proposition.

Larry

Larry

Don't bother, some of the synapses in Nal)whs brain just don't connect, no reasoning with someone who can not morally comprehend a true and just system

What is it said "Better to let 100 guilty men go free than falsely convict one innocent man?" I wonly wish he (Nal0whs) could receive some of his own wacko proposals
 

CyaBye3015

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Jan 8, 2003
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Nal0whs said:
But, that is fine if you don't align your point of view with my vision, that is not my intention. My intention is simply to express my idea on how to solve this problem quickly and effectively, though not perfectly.

Nal0whs, I doubt anyone in their right mind alignes their point of view with your vision!!!

Joe
 

expatsooner

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Aug 7, 2004
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CyaBye3015 said:
Nal0whs, I doubt anyone in their right mind alignes their point of view with your vision!!!

Joe

I have to agree with Joe about your ideas on this one. Never mind your going to jail for two months, how would you like your mother or grandmother to spend time in jail for something she didn't do?

Apart from the basic why on earth would you go to jail if innocent aspect of your plan you seem to have forgotten a few other things. Where is all the money to run the numerous jails for holding everyone charged with a crime for a minimum of two months going to come from? When and where will the additional guards be hired/trained? Where are you going to get the space to hold everyone? Since even innocent people will lose their jobs because of a two month absence they will have no income and have to turn to crime when released because they are unemployed. What about the money/goods for programs to help support the innocent children of innocent people in jail? The list goes on and on.

But I would like to understand a little more about where you could possibly have developed the ideas you espouse. I've seen the list of books, what I would really like to know is where did you go to high school? Have you any undergraduate or graduate work completed?
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Larry said:
Now you are threatening husbands who cheat with jail? You are really screwed up man. Dominican men don't need incentive to abandon their families, they do a good job of it without your rediculous proposition. Imagine how many families would be fatherless with your stupid law in place.

Gulity = death penalty and not guilty = taste in hell??? You really are nuts. I would never want to live in a country where you have any authority.

You want me to put forth a proposition to alleviate crime? I don't believe in dictatorships or police states. I do believe that putting an honest infrastructure in place, improving the economy and keeping drugs off the streets would be sufficient. There will always be some crime. Putting innocent people in jail is a stupid proposition.

Larry

Please, re-read my posts without the judgement of me being "dictatorial" as many folks put it here. Read it in a very unbiased fashion and you'll notice what I am saying.

Also, keep in mind. When I present an idea, I present the idea in its most roughest and purest form. I know the first round an idea is presented, it will not be accepted completely. From there, we move to modify it so that it becomes a bit more tolerable.

This strategy of presenting ideas is called "thinking". I want much of my ideas to be in place, but I know many sections of my idea won't make it. I'm always happy to see at least a part of my ideas on the "final copy" prior to mass acceptance.

Trust me, I don't post things for the hell of it. I post to perfect my ideas, but if I continuously get people who use my words to implement their wrong belief of what I am saying, then how can we perfect this idea. And btw, insulting never yields the result you want, it only creates tension which leads the person with the most influence in authority to impose an idea on society that maybe he/she did not fully agreed with, but because it was contested through insults, the full idea would be implemented (as a way to "let the person whose in charge").

If you or anybody want to change my way of thinking, you are going to have to do it in a more rational manner. Insulting will only yield insults from my part, but no change in ideology.

But really, re-read my posts. I think you are generalizing my idea a bit too much and I think you are focusing on the inevitable loop holes rather than the overall effect it will have on the population. Always keep in mind that the masses of any country collectively are weak minded people. That is why they need leaders to lead them, instead of themselves making the right decisions, which collectively would result in a better society.

Anybody aspiring to be a big influence or to be a leader understands that very well. Whenever I enter a room and I speak my opinion in any matter, most people automatically quiet down and listen. They might not agree with what I say, but because they listened, what I say will have an impact on them. Big or small, the impact will be there. Why do they listen? Because they are willing to see what else is "out there" in terms of ideas. If the person who reveals a new idea seems respectable, mentally stronger, and sure of him/herself, the crowd will follow.

People always follow people who are stronger than themselves. Those who lead are generally stronger (mentally) or perceived to be stronger than those who follow. Thus, my comment on the masses of any country being collectively weak minded. Always keep that in mind, especially when trying to influence me on any matter.