Real Dominicans Vs Fake Dominicans

Guatiao · Oct 24, 2004

Since all this A-Rod "controversy"

a real good question has arosed, Are American/Euro-other country born people from Dominican parents truly Dominican. Most 1st generation Immigrants are raised outside of the Dominican Republic and raised without or limited Dominican culture, some have never even visited the Dominican Republic because their parents are poor. My question is should a 1st generation Dominican-American be called Dominican or just American? What makes up a person nationality? Where their born or where their parents are born?

Capo

Pomli · Oct 24, 2004

I am not Dominican, but as born from immigrant parents, maybe my perspective could help.

If the first generation have not been exposed to their culture enough, they would probably act and think the same way as the society in which they are born. It is hard for parents to teach some values or ways of doing proper to their culture, when the children can see that outside the boundaries of home, it is not the way how things are. They have a chance to learn and act as what is dictated in their friend's family, so to be equal as them and not be different and rejected. However, if the children can get some exposure to their culture, and see often people of the same nationality (kids of same age would help a lot because they will be able to play and practice their language), it will be much easier for them to learn what their parents teach them, because they saw that things are that way elsewhere. But they will never be exactly as a person living in their country of origin, because of the different ways of living, different mentalities etc that exist between them. They will always have something that will differentiate them from a person of their nationality. While growing up, kids will realize that they have two choices, either growing under the influence of the society in which they are living or trying to find more about their origins and try to learn living under those standards but that will be hard unless they move and live a bit in their country. Still the kids will be considered as the same nationality as their parents (for some, it is hard to say that their are truly American or European because of their physical traits that don't fit with the real American or European (unless they are lucky !)) EXCEPT that they will differ greatly from real people of the same nationality in terms of thinking and way of living. So we could talk about Dominican born as American or European to differentiatiate them from real Dominican, because truly, they are made of half of each culture (depending on the degree of exposure).

NALs · Oct 25, 2004

I get a feeling people refer to this issue according to bloodlines.

If a person is born in another country and both his parents were Dominicans, then that person is expect to identify him/herself as Dominican, period.

If a person is born elsewhere and only one parent is Dominican, people don't expect him/her to identify as Dominican, but if he/she does, its acceptable.

That is the general attitude with the average joe on this island regarding this issue I would think.

In reality, most people just don't care! We have other things to worry about!

Shelby Stokes · Oct 25, 2004

You are who you are

Nal0whs said:
I get a feeling people refer to this issue according to bloodlines.

If a person is born in another country and both his parents were Dominicans, then that person is expect to identify him/herself as Dominican, period.

If a person is born elsewhere and only one parent is Dominican, people don't expect him/her to identify as Dominican, but if he/she does, its acceptable.

That is the general attitude with the average joe on this island regarding this issue I would think.

In reality, most people just don't care! We have other things to worry about!

This is the attitude that I hold. If any of you on this message board do not know by now, I joined in an effort to "connect" to what may truly be a part of my background. At this time I am researching my family heritage and I found that the trail of my Grandfather leads to the shores of the Dominican Republic. I think that when a person begins to accept who they are, then they will begin to identify and attach thenselves to the "Group" that they belong to. If A-Rod, Tiger Woods or myself know who they are, as people, then they will know who they are as a "Nationality" representative.

That is my opinion.
Shelby Stokes

deelt · Oct 26, 2004

Pomli

I agree with you 100%. If born outside the of the parents home country our affinity with the ethnic culture/nationality is based on degrees of exposure. The fact is that if we are to go back to the land our respective parents are from we are not truly accepted. Thus, we live in an abyss of being treated as foreigners there and in the US. So, this is why I think it is imperative we create a niche for ourselves as Dominican Americans.

Best to you,
D

Pomli said:
I am not Dominican, but as born from immigrant parents, maybe my perspective could help.

If the first generation have not been exposed to their culture enough, they would probably act and think the same way as the society in which they are born. It is hard for parents to teach some values or ways of doing proper to their culture, when the children can see that outside the boundaries of home, it is not the way how things are. They have a chance to learn and act as what is dictated in their friend's family, so to be equal as them and not be different and rejected. However, if the children can get some exposure to their culture, and see often people of the same nationality (kids of same age would help a lot because they will be able to play and practice their language), it will be much easier for them to learn what their parents teach them, because they saw that things are that way elsewhere. But they will never be exactly as a person living in their country of origin, because of the different ways of living, different mentalities etc that exist between them. They will always have something that will differentiate them from a person of their nationality. While growing up, kids will realize that they have two choices, either growing under the influence of the society in which they are living or trying to find more about their origins and try to learn living under those standards but that will be hard unless they move and live a bit in their country. Still the kids will be considered as the same nationality as their parents (for some, it is hard to say that their are truly American or European because of their physical traits that don't fit with the real American or European (unless they are lucky !)) EXCEPT that they will differ greatly from real people of the same nationality in terms of thinking and way of living. So we could talk about Dominican born as American or European to differentiatiate them from real Dominican, because truly, they are made of half of each culture (depending on the degree of exposure).

Oche · Oct 26, 2004

I believe a 1st generation American-Dominican born person should be called dominican if he/she truly believes and lives up to the dominican customs, traditions, values, and culture in a general sense. The national identity subject really frightens me. The younger generations don't seem know and care about national culture, traditions and values. I'm sure there are a LOT of born dominicans (not worth being called dominicans and more like fake dominicans as you have designated) in the present time living in the DR soil who have even less national identity than of a 2nd or even 3rd generation of dominicans born outside DR soil, clearest and best example is dominican colony all around USA, etc.

Jozee74 · Oct 26, 2004

It all depends.....I tell everyone I am dominican when they ask me where I am from I tell them well my parents are from ****city but I was born in the states.

We are brought up with the same values as our parents when they were younger the problem is we tend to change them as we get older and start surrounding ourselves with different people with different cultures. Most get married with someone of another race and they have children and before you know it the Dominican values and traditions dissappear.

Then something miraculous happens

they visit the D.R and are born again Dominicans LOL

deelt · Oct 26, 2004

For logistics sake:
1st generation means those who have migrated.
2nd generation are people who are born here
3rd generation well you know...

The national identity subject should frighten people because it is being used
by many. It's a multi-billion dollar business in remittances, in business ventures, trade agreements, political campaign agendas, political scapegoating, etc. Companies and governments are benefiting out of this abyss and not the people.

In the US not all Dominican children are learning DR history or even care unless it's a merengue/bachata that comes on after eating arroz con carne.
Food, music and can, do not make a people. I think a concerted effort can be made but should be done so independently of the US school system and not paid by US taxpayers' money. But it should be done.

D

Oche said:
I believe a 1st generation American-Dominican born person should be called dominican if he/she truly believes and lives up to the dominican customs, traditions, values, and culture in a general sense. The national identity subject really frightens me. The younger generations don't seem know and care about national culture, traditions and values. I'm sure there are a LOT of born dominicans (not worth being called dominicans and more like fake dominicans as you have designated) in the present time living in the DR soil who have even less national identity than of a 2nd or even 3rd generation of dominicans born outside DR soil, clearest and best example is dominican colony all around USA, etc.

JANET/NJ · Oct 26, 2004

Viva Le Diferance'!

I believe you are from where you originally were born, regardless of where your parents are from. My mom is dominican and my father puerto rican, i was born in Puerto Rico and that's where i say i'm from. i do let them know that i'm 1/2 dominican because i'm proud to be part of that heritage also.

I think i have the best of both worlds, even though it gets tough sometimes trying to defend each side, they both have their positives and negatives.

Golo100 · Oct 29, 2004

Your are all right

Each situation is different and much depends on where you migrated to, the neighborhood you were brought up and if your family maintained their patriotic fervor, customs and language.

But going back to the issue with Alex Rodriguez, the problem laid in the fact that Alex made a big deal of his Dominicanity with his remark in DR that "he is as Dominican as a platano", only to deny it during the playoffs. He should have said..."Alex Rodriguez, born in the USA of Dominican parents and proud of it" or something like that.

Now he looks like a jerk and his poor performance in the playoffs added to the fact that he has now become the new "curse" for losing baseball teams, has made it worse. A sweet revenge was acted upon by Pedro Martinez and other Dominican Boston players who wrapped themselves in the Dominican flag during the Wseries celebrations as a slap in the face to Alex.
I was never too fond of Alex. Even less now.
TW

DMAO · Oct 30, 2004

Oche said:
I believe a 1st generation American-Dominican born person should be called dominican if he/she truly believes and lives up to the dominican customs, traditions, values, and culture in a general sense. The national identity subject really frightens me. The younger generations don't seem know and care about national culture, traditions and values. I'm sure there are a LOT of born dominicans (not worth being called dominicans and more like fake dominicans as you have designated) in the present time living in the DR soil who have even less national identity than of a 2nd or even 3rd generation of dominicans born outside DR soil, clearest and best example is dominican colony all around USA, etc.

Definitely true.
If you embrace the Dominican Culture, eventhough you were born here and you parents are the imports. I am between this. I was born in DR, came here when i was 5, and still live here today-20 years later. My parents have egraved into me my Dominicanidad, and I have learned about my heritage through reading. The environment is also important. I was raised in a town with a large Dominican population. If I had grown up among many gringos, and my parents not been the way they were, i might have called myself American. I work with mostly Gringos, and I always 'slip up' and say spanish words, show up with rice and beans for dinner, listen to merengue and bachata on the office radio.
When asked, "Where are you from?"- I say "Soy Dominicana"

ClippedWing · Oct 31, 2004

I say whatever floats one boat.

First generation Dominicans in the US, especially the black ones, like to call themself anything but American even though that's clearly what they are. It's like it makes them special or something so I say whatever.

I met a "dominican" guy. He was born in St. Paul MN to Dominican parents. Didn't know a lick of spanish, had never visited the DR before and probably couldn't find it on a map but when I called him black he says, "I'm not black, I'm Dominican" I'm thinking but you don't even know where the DR is.

I'd consider him a poser, a faker. Someone who just "wants" to be different.

But I met a girl on a message board who was born in NYC to Dominican parents, she speaks the language, visits all the time, knows the people, the culture, the customs... She has a strong interest in her parent's homeland and has made it her own. I say she's "real"

I don't know why so much controversy surrounds Dominians, PR's, Cubans about their "realness". Like first born generations from Jamaica, Trinidad, Bahamas, etc.. don't have all that baggage. You never hear them saying, I'm not black, I'm Jamaican, or I'm not American I'm Bohemian, etc... They acclimate to American society and embrace it just fine. But Dominicans...good lord, it's the strangest thing.

But my position is that the beauty of America is that you can be anything you want to be. So when Dominicans born in the US start spewing that "I'm Dominican" stuff even though they probably can't spell "Dominican" I just say whatever.

Toronto2inDR · Oct 31, 2004

If finding the DR on a map is a prerequisite to being Dominican then there are very few Dominicans in the DR.

sweetdbt · Oct 31, 2004

Toronto2inDR said:
If finding the DR on a map is a prerequisite to being Dominican then there are very few Dominicans in the DR.

I don't remember the exact numbers but a study of US high school students a while back revealed that a significant % couldn't locate the US on a world map!

ClippedWing · Oct 31, 2004

So you're saying the majority of Dominicans don't know where their own country is located in the world? Are you saying the majority of Dominicans are stupid or something?

Toronto2inDR · Oct 31, 2004

The first lawyer I had when I moved here didn't know if Haiti was North, South, East or West of Puerto Plata.

And as it was pointed out a large number of Americans can't find the US on a world map. People everywhere can be smart or stupid but a big part of that is a good education system or lack of...

Golo100 · Nov 1, 2004

Say what?

Would you be surprised if you gave all Dominicans a globe, make it turn a couple of times and let them find DR, if they don't find the island? I wouldn't. I bet the majority would be totally lost. Just the same way most Americans would be hard pressed to know where all the 51 states are and their names.

Just think. More than 50% of Dominicans can't read or write. Those who can read or write cannot do it weel enough to understand the bible, if they read it. I talk to many college graduates and their speaking, writing and reading skills are at best passing grade. What makes you think they can find an island that can hardly be seen in a world map?

TW

bienamor · Nov 1, 2004

51??

Golo100 said:
Would you be surprised if you gave all Dominicans a globe, make it turn a couple of times and let them find DR, if they don't find the island? I wouldn't. I bet the majority would be totally lost. Just the same way most Americans would be hard pressed to know where all the 51 states are and their names.

Just think. More than 50% of Dominicans can't read or write. Those who can read or write cannot do it weel enough to understand the bible, if they read it. I talk to many college graduates and their speaking, writing and reading skills are at best passing grade. What makes you think they can find an island that can hardly be seen in a world map?

TW

When did we add the new one, or are you counting puerto rico already>>

FuegoAzul21 · Nov 1, 2004

Golo100 said:
Would you be surprised if you gave all Dominicans a globe, make it turn a couple of times and let them find DR, if they don't find the island? I wouldn't. I bet the majority would be totally lost. Just the same way most Americans would be hard pressed to know where all the 51 states are and their names.

Just think. More than 50% of Dominicans can't read or write. Those who can read or write cannot do it weel enough to understand the bible, if they read it. I talk to many college graduates and their speaking, writing and reading skills are at best passing grade. What makes you think they can find an island that can hardly be seen in a world map?

TW

where the hell did you get that figure ? 50%? thats a bit of an exaggeration ,according the CIA factbook the DR has a 85 % literacy rate ,If you're talkin about Dominicans in the states , you re still way off , almost every college/university in the Tri-State area(ny,nj,Pa) has a Dominican population and 75% of Dominicans between the ages of 18 to 25 continue thier education (as in, 4 or 2 year school/technical school) , and here in jersey , never in my life have i met a Dominican that couldnt find DR on the map , But maybe you've had different expieriences with Domincans ,however i think most Dominicans in the states are aware of thier Dominican culture ,due the fact that most Dominican-Americans are 1 generation americans with an extremely small 2 generation part, 2 generationers are usually only half Dominican ,so ,as said in a prior post by someone else , they re not expected to be all that proud or aware of thier Dominicanidad

mondongo · Nov 1, 2004

FuegoAzul21, Let me demurely give you some unsolicited advice. The "facts" in the CIA World Factbook are best suited for cleansing one's posterior after a satisfying steamer.

Real Dominicans Vs Fake Dominicans

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