electricity solution

mrhotshot

New member
Jan 9, 2004
10
0
0
Hi all,

I see were we are receiving a 30% increase in power. I hold both Dominican and US citizenship, the one thing i can't figure out here is that in the US the Poles, the wiring and the street lights and even the controls (meter) are owned by the electric company, let me touch or modify any of that equipment and the electic company files charges on me, the home owner for destruction of property. At that time I have to Pay a outrageous fine, under vast scrutiny for at least five years and may even be incarserated. I suggest some kind of modification in the way that the electric Co. handle all of this power theivery. actually there is no difference in stealing a car or or stealing personal possession of one. Your right it not up to the police, but if bogus wire is running from a pole to a apartment complex, or a house, the owner should be held solely responsible in a court of law, if the crime is commited twice iam looking at 6 months in jail. maybe this would change the out look of some of these theives.
really guys the goverment is paying $20,000,000.00 a month and we the legals are paying facturas on time and still having extended blackouts also, lets get some legislation on this, there is someone in the wood pile so to speak.
I am writing this cause i have been a victim to were a 12 occupancy apartment connected to my air condition, and the electric company saw more than a year of on time payment from myself and my wife, but the landlord took advantage of the gringo while at the La Playa. Although the electric company made the accusation i had given to permission to run a 12 room apartment on my house. Get these power companys to prosecute some of these a**h*les and this might get a little better,
I hope that i have not offended anyone and these are only my views
thanks,
Mrhotshot
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
0
38
yahoomail.com
Only ONE Thing Wrong With Your Idea!!!!!!

That kind of logic only applies in a "Civilized" country! The only "LAW" in the DR is the law that the Government chooses to enforce at any given time.That means that they may enforce a law when it suits them,and then completely ignore the law when it doesn't!!!
The Government,and the electric distributers,are afraid of the "Poor" people! They can't put in meters,because they will be removed or just smashed! The Party that uses police/military to force the installation,and then the charges for electricity in the "Barrios" will never hold power again,and they know it! Hell,one of the biggest "Freeloaders" is the Government it's self!They depend on the "Rich" and Middleclass to subsidise the "poor"! Thats why I "Steal" 3/4 of my use of electricity.In my house,and 100% in an apt. I have in "La Fe"!
:bandit: :bandit: :bandit: :bandit: :bandit: ;) :nervous: CCCCCCCCC
 

mrhotshot

New member
Jan 9, 2004
10
0
0
true

Criss Colon said:
That kind of logic only applies in a "Civilized" country! The only "LAW" in the DR is the law that the Government chooses to enforce at any given time.That means that they may enforce a law when it suits them,and then completely ignore the law when it doesn't!!!
The Government,and the electric distributers,are afraid of the "Poor" people! They can't put in meters,because they will be removed or just smashed! The Party that uses police/military to force the installation,and then the charges for electricity in the "Barrios" will never hold power again,and they know it! Hell,one of the biggest "Freeloaders" is the Government it's self!They depend on the "Rich" and Middleclass to subsidise the "poor"! Thats why I "Steal" 3/4 of my use of electricity.In my house,and 100% in an apt. I have in "La Fe"!
:bandit: :bandit: :bandit: :bandit: :bandit: ;) :nervous: CCCCCCCCC

Oh don't get me wrong, your right, sometimes i just wander how long it takes to train a dog to stop pissing on the floor, sometimes it is hard to over look that Haiti is so close. Another thing is G.W. Bush handed Mejia well over 89 billion before August, IMF i believe is sealing there deal and the Paris Club just had another buffet, another $250,000,000.000 is being divereted from the US to Spain to here, Damn should have started my own third world nation.
Now on the lighter point i understand the is no internal cooperation, and there is still much need for reform every where. Be cool thx for reply!!!!
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,368
3,150
113
the one thing i can't figure out here is that in the US the Poles, the wiring and the street lights and even the controls (meter) are owned by the electric company
This is not entirely true everywhere in the US. Many of my American friends live in Westchester County, NY and Fairfield County, Connecticut (in addition to a few in Miami and Washington DC area. In addition to this, many of these folks own vacation homes in several areas of the US, (btw, the town of Savannah in Georgia is really beautiful! My favorite American town thus far).

From what I have heard, there is alot of deregulation going on in the US and electricity companies no longer are owning the entire system anymore.

I guess it depends where you are in the US, after all, that country spans an entire continent!
 

Texas Bill

Silver
Feb 11, 2003
2,174
26
0
97
www.texasbill.com
Nal0whs said:
This is not entirely true everywhere in the US. Many of my American friends live in Westchester County, NY and Fairfield County, Connecticut (in addition to a few in Miami and Washington DC area. In addition to this, many of these folks own vacation homes in several areas of the US, (btw, the town of Savannah in Georgia is really beautiful! My favorite American town thus far).

From what I have heard, there is alot of deregulation going on in the US and electricity companies no longer are owning the entire system anymore.

I guess it depends where you are in the US, after all, that country spans an entire continent!

NalOws...

What the poster was refering to is the "Rule of Law" in the ownership vs the user relationship. Whatever organization "owns" the equipment used to get the electricity to the user is protected by the "law" (regulations imposed by the particular State in which the equipment is located) and for any denegration by the user, the "owner" has legal recourse to recover and/or prevent any future denegration.

Such is not the case here in the DR. People from all walks of life "steal" the product from the "electric company" without fear of prosecution by the "enforcing " agency. Additionally, bogus, inflated and otherwise exorbetant bills (facturas) are presented to the users having contracts with the 'electric company" on a continuing basis and the government does absolutely NOTHING to alleviate the burden thus imposed on the captive public.

There is no control attempted by the government over what the "electric company" imposes on the using public in the form of "charges' for the "service provided"(???)..... In other words, the "electric company", whether it is the government entity distributing the service or a private organization doing the same, can and does charge whatever they damn well please for the so-called 'service'.

And, in the case of those structures not serviced by a meter, the charges are computed on the basis of 24/7 continuous service to the electrical equipment within the structure.

So, we, as users, are being overcharged for so-called electric service, not only by the "electric companies", but by the government as well, since they are part of the distribution system.

It's just another example of your "Democratic" government in operation in this country. It just seems to me that someone who seems to be a very astute person would recognize what is going on and who brags about being an influential person would use their influence to bring about some forms of corrective measures instead of trying to rationalize the problem away such as you did in your post.

Texas Bill
 

Tom F.

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
699
91
48
I remember in 98 when the govt. threaten to put people in jail who had illegal connections to the grid. Never happened. This is obviously the first and only step in reforming the electrical problems. It is criminal what they do to the gringo who doesn't get the Dominican treatment at the old CDE. I have heard and read too many horror stories. For the Dominicans, many pay what they should (maybe half). The others scam in whatever way they can. All have been written about on the board before. Can Leonel do it?

In the US, when states allow competition, it is at the generation part of bringing electricity to your home or business. Three parts, generation, transportation, and distribution. The same local monopoly will still come and read your meter and send you your bill. In the DR the govt. owns 50% of the distribution (now 100% in the two of three sectors that the Spanish left town over) the transmission is govt. ownd, and most of the generation is provided by foreign companies with Dominican partnerships in many cases, who have contracts which we often read about on DR1. The hydoelectric dams are 100% owned by the govt.. I think there is some govt. owned generation.

Then you take the bringing in crude oil or refined fuel. Anyone knows how this is done. I know the DR has atleast one refinary. I doubt whether they refine everything consumed in the country. What fuels at what percentage are used in the DR?

I would really like to see a solution to this problem. Then guys like us in the solar and wind business can figure out where it makes sense to put the stuff where it belongs. All this chaos only benefits the corrupt.

Tom F.
 
Sep 20, 2003
1,217
44
48
Somewhere on this board(i can't locate the post now), someone wrote that in the 1980's the DR had 21 power plants and that today it only has 3.

Is that true?

What happened to the other power plants? Could they be restored and restarted to create more electricity? Or have the been torn down or just fallen down from neglect?
 

El Americano

*** Sin Bin ***
Dec 10, 2004
30
0
0
56
El Jefe

I am sad to report it is true, today the DR has 3 pwr plants as opposed to the 21 while Trujillo was in power. It seems that while he was a dictator, he was dictator with vision, he created the infrastructure that brought the DR into modern living standards and his "firms" employed nearly 80% of his population. This guy was brutal but if you lived in his time and you were clearly Dominican, you had a better standard of living then the current population. If you think about it, it is amazing because it is usually the other way around, usually a dictator drains a country instead of building a nation. How and why the plants gone from 21 to 3 is a testiment to the corruptability of ALL political types, the people who replaced El Jefe had to liquidate as much as they could to line their own pockets....without consideration to the needs of their nation.

There is a group of rich Dominicans who must have profited from the suffering of their fellow countrymen....but I bet they live in the areas with 24/7 power...or at least an automatic generator. Since they can't do it themselves they (DR Govt.) need to sale the rights to a private US or Canadian firm and in less than 5 years the entire island or at least the DR side will have power, if anyone knows if a deal like this is in the works pls post company info, would love to invest if it is done right.
 

Gringo

Bronze
Jan 1, 2002
1,314
58
0
Right On!

El Americano said:
There is a group of rich Dominicans who must have profited from the suffering of their fellow countrymen....but I bet they live in the areas with 24/7 power

After more then 15 years living here and suffered with little or no power I have been able to move to an area that has Luz 365/24/7. and the people that live next to me are not in short supply of money!

So yes Bullshit walks and money talks!

Gringo
 

Rick Snyder

Silver
Nov 19, 2003
2,321
2
0
Corruption strikes again

I think it is interesting to note that for at least a year the distribution companys have been crying the blues by saying that only 20% of the customers pay their bills and last week there was an article in the Listin Diario whereas they caught a distribution company giving a 90% discount to a large number of companies for a portion of what the companies then paid. If they were doing it for large companies then I can guarantee you that they were and are doing it for other people also. Corruption at its finest. ;) ;)
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
0
38
yahoomail.com
That,"The DR has Only Three Power Plants" post is wrong!

Anyone who lives here,reads the Dominican newspapers,or reads DR1 Daily News Archives would know that!They are spread around the Country,with the most on the South Shore!Lack of generating capacity is not now,or ever has been the cause of the "Apagones"! The causes are many and varied.they have been discussed on DR1 and other "media" ad nausium! Just leave it on "Curruption",govrnmental,public,and private and you will never be far from wrong! I know that I do "My Part"!! :bandit: :bandit: :bandit: ;)
 

samiam

Bronze
Mar 5, 2003
592
0
0
Three plant is wrong...there are over 20 technologicaly more efficient than those during the Chapita regime buddy. Check the facts! CEPM, CEB, CEPP, Smith Enron, Cogentrix, AES Andres, EGEHaina1,2&3, Sultana del Este, Palamara in La vega, etc. As a matter of fact, our capacity to produce energy has surpassed the local demand.

Why then do we have blackouts then? Because in matters of electricity Dominicans are a bunch of freeloaders. If they can get hooked up for free, they will.
If the power co. cuts the energy off in gualey or any other barrio, you'll have a general strike and riots with in minutes and try and pass those guys a bill for energy consumed. Oh, also check out how many have TV's, toasters, miniovemns etc., you'll be surprised.
Another reason, because the privatization of the energy sector was done in a fashion that costs too much to operate keeps the government too involved and as a whole didnt make much sence. It was really stupid to divide thos who produce from those who distribute and sell. They should be kept as a single entity that can cover some of its distribution costs with more efficient generation.
Solution: 1-Make the whole deal private and keep the government out by allowing small private electric companies that cover areas like, La vega- Santiago or Puerto Plata-Rio Sanjuan, etc. to set up shop. They will be more efficient in providing a reliable service. Examples: Punta Cana or Bayahibe.
2-Ask the Russian Federation if they can park a Nucler Sub from its Atlantic Fleet in El Malecon and hook it up to a SubStation. Voila!
 

DunHill

New member
Aug 29, 2003
351
0
0
www.dunhill.ws
In Bavaro they have a local powerplant, and it works 24/7

For all other cases, we are nice western people and we know we have to pay our duties, but:
We use electricity, they overcharge us and we don't/can't do anything about it
When we import goods, Customs really overcharge us and we don't/can't do anything about it
When we want to pay taxes, the Impuestos overcharge us and we don't/can't do anything about it

Dominicans are smarter
They get overcharged for electricity: they will find a way to pay less and share this knowledge with all their friends and family
They get overcharged by Customs: they will find a way to pay less and share this knowledge with all their friends and family
They get overcharged for Impuestos: they will find a way to pay less and share this knowledge with all their friends and family

Logical conclusion:
When you live here, it a good thing that you learn at least something about the Dominican way of life.
 

Criss Colon

Platinum
Jan 2, 2002
21,843
191
0
38
yahoomail.com
Thanks for the post! It Won't Work Here!

Everytime they install meters in the "poor" barios,they just "jump" them! They tried an assesment of only 150 mesos a month for homes connected to the power grid,but without a meter.They couldn't get them to pay either!! Government payments,and subsidies for electric and "Cooking Gas"(Propane) have become part of the culture here.Each time a government tries to stop them,the political pressure is so great that the goverment capitulates to the "Extortion!" The "IMF" has demanded the end to the government's subsides on propane,as a condition for their "loan".Lets see what happens.Until then,I will "Pay Like A Dominican" for my "Juice"! ;) :bandit:
 

DunHill

New member
Aug 29, 2003
351
0
0
www.dunhill.ws
Criss Colon said:
The "IMF" has demanded the end to the government's subsides on propane,as a condition for their "loan".Lets see what happens.Until then,I will "Pay Like A Dominican" for my "Juice"! ;) :bandit:

Burning tyres :tired:
 
Apr 26, 2002
1,806
10
0
Criss Colon said:
The "IMF" has demanded the end to the government's subsides on propane,as a condition for their "loan".Lets see what happens.:bandit:

More proof that the IMF is an a_ss. Balaguer's propane subsidy was perhaps the most important public initiative in the history of this country. It has saved our forests (compare to Haiti). The cost of abuse (e.g. taxi drivers using propane because it's cheaper) can't compare to the environmental benefit of paying poor people to not cut the forests for charcoal. And that's assuming that the subsidy can't be tuned to reduce abuse.

I agree that community-based solutions and pre-paid meters are both good ideas. Perhaps South African consultants (rather than the atrocious Spaniards) should be brought in. If they can get the electrical system working in Soweto (and they have), then I suspect they can help here.
 

Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
17,850
982
113
I met a South American chap the other day who was part of an international delegation of consultants working with the government on this issue.

Perfectly nice person, but I had to supress a grin when he told me that this high-powered, and undoubtedly high-cost, team of experts had 'found' that one of the main problems was getting people to pay their bills. Like, d'uh.
 

Jos?45

New member
Jun 1, 2005
36
0
0
Grupo Millennium Hispaniola (GMH)

Please check the site of the GMH at http://grupomillenium.blogspot.com/. Feel free to duplicate comments on DR1 and GMH.

I have found most of the comments on electricity solution very interesting.

Jos? Antonio Vanderhorst-Silverio, PhD
In(ter)dependent Consultant on Electricity
Organic Seed of the GMH.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
18,948
514
113
I wonder if this guy

is related to the Vanderhorst that used to live on Bartolom? Col?n in Santiiago and was a huge ham radio operator???

If he is he has outstanding credentials. I would be surprised the country has managed to get him to work here...

this could be interesting.

HB:D:D:D