I hope this is just an isolated incidence :(

Plus, public acknowedgement of reimbursing of money to tourists, will also make robbers think.......oh, they get it back, we can do it again.......that's if they thought about those niceties in the first place. Maybe it is ladrones way of recouping all that previous government stole from them?

Crimes are a function of economic standing. In my metropolis (Boston), crimes generally went down during the roaring 90's, but started to increase after the 2001 recession.
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On another note, it disappoints me when the educated people of this forum fail to see that the Fernandez administration is delivering body blows to the lower and middle Dominican classes. Must you wait until it is too late to realize this?

What is the current admin doing that is directly affecting the middle and lower classes?

This is really serious. Tourism is a very sensible industry and it has taken the DR many many years to clean up its image.

Nobody (not even an AI hotel owner) will benefit from news of this kind... By the way, AI hotels benefit from guests leaving the property.

This is bad news to anybody in the tourist industry and my hope is that they catch these thieves and set a strong example with hard punishment.

I hope as well that it's an isolated incident.

YY

mondongo said:

Crimes are a function of economic standing. In my metropolis (Boston), crimes generally went down during the roaring 90's, but started to increase after the 2001 recession.
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On another note, it disappoints me when the educated people of this forum fail to see that the Fernandez administration is delivering body blows to the lower and middle Dominican classes. Must you wait until it is too late to realize this?

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how much is the pph paying you? you're always bad-mouthing the new administration and twisting threads from original subject matter to your rant. give it a break. they've been in office 4 months. certainly not worse than it was a year ago and most certainly there is money and jobs starting to trickle down with the return of investement - but that's not for this thread.

There was a lot of debate whether to

Publish this news or not on DR1. The basic argument was thatDR1 had a responsibility to give out all of the news-good and bad- and that it would be much worse for the readers to hear about this in the Washington Post or the New York Post, or the Chicago Tribune.

I was extremely upset with this news and even moreso because I have not seen or heard of any really intense action on the part of the Police or the Armed Forces.

If these people had UZIs, the armed forces should go after them. And kill them.

Without a rapid and totally transparant resolution to this crime we definately run the risk of losing out to other destinations. Jamaica lost a bundle when violence became associated with tourism. Are we next?

I sent editorial comments to every editor I know and I hope that you readers do to. Solve this case or else!

HB ((

Hillbilly said:

Publish this news or not on DR1. The basic argument was thatDR1 had a responsibility to give out all of the news-good and bad- and that it would be much worse for the readers to hear about this in the Washington Post or the New York Post, or the Chicago Tribune.HB ((

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There is no way that publication of something like this can be at issue. I really do hope that there is some strong action - I can only think of the bad publicity in other places, Jamaica and remember a few years ago when travellers in Florida in rental cars were ripped off. Possibly the tour operators will also take some action.

What happened?

Is there an english version?

Gunmen besiege busload of tourists
Two hooded gunmen boarded a bus carrying US tourists along the highway that leads to Villa Elisa in Puerto Plata last Tuesday, reports the Listin Diario. The masked men unhanded the travelers of their money, jewelry, cameras and other valuables, making off with thousands of pesos worth of cash and goods.
After forcing the driver to stop the vehicle, the two climbed aboard the bus brandishing Uzi weapons which they pointed at the tourists. According to the owner of El Paraiso Tours, Gunter Manni, once the thieves had robbed all the passengers, they got off the bus and fled into the nearby mountains. The German entrepreneur informed that the tourists were making their way back from Cayo Arena to their hotels aboard a Prieto Tours vehicle when they fell victim to the bandits, whose whereabouts and identities remain unknown. Manni also blamed this type of crime on a lack of safety measures in the Punta Rucia area, especially given the large number of vacationers who wish to visit the remote North Coast scenic attraction. Manni revealed the details of the incident at a reception held by the German embassy Tuesday night at the Iberostar Costa Dora Hotel, a function that was attended by German Ambassador Karl Kohler.
Manni stated that this was the first time in the six years of his company's operation that tourists had been assailed in the region. He demanded that the Ministry of Tourism and the National Police assign Politur agents to the area to avoid any similar incidents.

Thanks for the translation liam1.

Fortunately nobody was hurt.

Hopefully such incidents do not become more common.

Malibook said:

Thanks for the translation liam1.

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i wish i knew spanish that good. it was just a copy/paste of the news section. cheers.

The Bus incident is really bad news for tourists interested in travelling anywhere in the DR. I have been coming down to this great country for 20 years, travelled widely in the DR and have never heard about this type of thievery before. No doubt the robbers should be pursued by the military, which would deter this happening again. Canadian Bob.

I've heard about a couple of recent incidents that are making me feel that life here not as safe as it used to be. I still maintain that your chances of becoming a victim of crime in Santo Domingo at least is no worse than any large European city. You have to have your wits about you, but there is no need to be paranoid either.

This particular piece of news is very worrying indeed and it is probably up to the hotels and tour operators to take measures. Unfortunately the police and the army are not likely to have any effect.

canadian bob said:

No doubt the robbers should be pursued by the military, which would deter this happening again.

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If they caught them all that would happen is that they would share the loot and go off for a couple of frias together.

canadian bob said:

The Bus incident is really bad news for tourists interested in travelling anywhere in the DR. I have been coming down to this great country for 20 years, travelled widely in the DR and have never heard about this type of thievery before. No doubt the robbers should be pursued by the military, which would deter this happening again. Canadian Bob.

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I don't care what anybody think.

WE NEED TO PROHIBIT THE US FROM RETURNING BAD APPLES TO OUR SHORES. EITHER THAT, OR THEY GET AUTOMATIC DEATH PENALTY IF THEIR REASON FOR DEPORTATION WAS MURDER OR A HARSH CRIME IN THE US.

THAT IS STEP ONE.

STEP TWO, A NATIONWIDE "SPY" POLICE GROUP SHOULD BE ASSEMBLED. THESE GUYS, MUCH LIKE IN A DICTATORSHIP, WOULD SIMPLY GO AROUND AND GETTING AQUAINTED WITH MOST PEOPLE IN THE DR WITH THE GOAL OF GETTING TIPS ON WHO IS PERCEIVED TO BE A BAD PERSON OR A PERSON WITH LOW MORALS OR A PERSON WHO WAS RECENTLY DEPORTED.

THEN, THESE UNDERCOVER COPS WOULD SEARCH FOR SUCH PERSON, INTEROGATE THEM TO SEE IF THE CLAIMS ARE TRUE, IF SUCH CLAIMS DOES APPEARS TO BE TRUE, FURTHER INTEROGATION SHOULD PROCEED. ONCE THE INTEROGATION IS DONE, IF THE POSSIBILITY IS STILL HIGHLY LIKELY, THAT PERSON WOULD FACE SERIOUS JAIL TIME, IF NOT DEATH PENALTY.

I KNOW SOME INNOCENT FOLKS WILL GET INVOLVED IN THIS AND THAT IS TOO BAD, JUST HOW THESE INNOCENT TOURIST WERE VERY CLOSE TO BEING KILLED BY MINDLESS, STUPID, AND EXTREMELY LAZY CRIMINALS!

HARSH TIMES REQUIRES HARSH CONSEQUENCES!

Wow...are you sure about that...

Nal0whs said:

I don't care what anybody think.

WE NEED TO PROHIBIT THE US FROM RETURNING BAD APPLES TO OUR SHORES. EITHER THAT, OR THEY GET AUTOMATIC DEATH PENALTY IF THEIR REASON FOR DEPORTATION WAS MURDER OR A HARSH CRIME IN THE US.

THAT IS STEP ONE.

STEP TWO, A NATIONWIDE "SPY" POLICE GROUP SHOULD BE ASSEMBLED. THESE GUYS, MUCH LIKE IN A DICTATORSHIP, WOULD SIMPLY GO AROUND AND GETTING AQUAINTED WITH MOST PEOPLE IN THE DR WITH THE GOAL OF GETTING TIPS ON WHO IS PERCEIVED TO BE A BAD PERSON OR A PERSON WITH LOW MORALS OR A PERSON WHO WAS RECENTLY DEPORTED.

THEN, THESE UNDERCOVER COPS WOULD SEARCH FOR SUCH PERSON, INTEROGATE THEM TO SEE IF THE CLAIMS ARE TRUE, IF SUCH CLAIMS DOES APPEARS TO BE TRUE, FURTHER INTEROGATION SHOULD PROCEED. ONCE THE INTEROGATION IS DONE, IF THE POSSIBILITY IS STILL HIGHLY LIKELY, THAT PERSON WOULD FACE SERIOUS JAIL TIME, IF NOT DEATH PENALTY.

I KNOW SOME INNOCENT FOLKS WILL GET INVOLVED IN THIS AND THAT IS TOO BAD, JUST HOW THESE INNOCENT TOURIST WERE VERY CLOSE TO BEING KILLED BY MINDLESS, STUPID, AND EXTREMELY LAZY CRIMINALS!

HARSH TIMES REQUIRES HARSH CONSEQUENCES!

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They would find people with 'Low Morals' and kill them? Innocent folks would get involved and if they get killed or sent to prison that is to bad? Hmmm

It is a single incident and I am sure that the government will apply the proper amount of pressure to find them. They will probably tell someone with just a little bigger mouth and that person will tell someone and so on. Give it some time. But a gestapo type police force such as you are recommending would perhaps be over the line at this point in time.

As for the USA returning dominicans who are in the USA subject to certain deportation regulations by which they will be deported if they are found guilty of certain criminal acts...well...isn't that part of the stipulation for gaining access to the USA...you screw up...you have to leave. I see nothing wrong with that. The USA is lenient as it is on foreigners. When they arrive back in this country...your government can decide how to deal with them. If your gov. really thinks it is that serious they will take the necessary steps.

Snuffy said:

They would find people with 'Low Morals' and kill them? Innocent folks would get involved and if they get killed or sent to prison that is to bad? Hmmm

It is a single incident and I am sure that the government will apply the proper amount of pressure to find them. They will probably tell someone with just a little bigger mouth and that person will tell someone and so on. Give it some time. But a gestapo type police force such as you are recommending would perhaps be over the line at this point in time.

As for the USA returning dominicans who are in the USA subject to certain deportation regulations by which they will be deported if they are found guilty of certain criminal acts...well...isn't that part of the stipulation for gaining access to the USA...you screw up...you have to leave. I see nothing wrong with that. The USA is lenient as it is on foreigners. When they arrive back in this country...your government can decide how to deal with them. If your gov. really thinks it is that serious they will take the necessary steps.

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The alternative is what is currently in place and its obviously not working. Yes, the severe crime wave has subsided, but some gruesome stuff are still happening.

And yes, it was an isolated incident, but many criminals or would be criminals know how to read and do read the newspapers. I'm sure there are a few who scan the newspaper for new crime ideas and this one is just so tempting for so many of them.

The entire purpose of my suggestion is to put fear in the minds of those who do commit a crime. As I said, there will be A FEW INNOCENTS that might be equivocally involved, but they will only be a few and far between.

At least, they will be less than the number of innocent people being victims of crime.

And about the deportation, yes there is nothing wrong with that on the American point of view, but on the Dominican point of view there is because we get the bad apples. Most bad apples left the DR as good people (notice I said most, not all) and they become bad apples in the streets of NYC or elsewhere, then they are deported and continue to be bad apples here. As such, they should just get death penalty as soon they kill someone in the states and get caught rather than deported to cause problems in the DR.

By prohibiting the US from deporting bad apples (I still think this is highly unlikely), the US will be forced to do something with them and putting them to sleep would be an option for them. The other option is for the DR to put them to sleep, but that will cost us much needed cash.

We could try to give them advince on being good citizens, etc, but we don't have the money as a nation to pay the electricity, let alone pay for the betterment of a person who went rotten in the US and was deported.

I say, kill them all, they are nothing more than a serious liability to society and our development as a nation.

The secret police/interrogation/death penalty answer is a trujilloista style response. Granted, when Trujillo ruled, crime was low, armed robbery was extremely rare, and let's be honest, with a strong man like trujillo running the DR , a brazen armed robbery like this would probably never have happened.

However, people got tired of lliving in fear of the government. That was why so many movements plotted against him. Trujillo's brutality got him killed.

I don't think it is possible to set up a secret police with "star chamber" enforcement powers and not see massive human rights violations start to occur almost immedately.

The price, for the moment, is too high for the average Dominican citizen to support a police state like the one you are calling for. Perhaps if the DR spirals to the level of Haitian style anarchy you might see real support for a Trujillo style police state to return.

joel pacheco said:

The secret police/interrogation/death penalty answer is a trujilloista style response. Granted, when Trujillo ruled, crime was low, armed robbery was extremely rare, and let's be honest, with a strong man like trujillo running the DR , a brazen armed robbery like this would probably never happened.

However, people got tired of lliving in fear of the government. That was why so many movements plotted against him. Trujillo's brutality got him killed.

I don't think it is possible to set up a secret police with "star chamber" enforcement powers and not see massive human rights violations start to occur almost immedately.

The price, for the moment, is too high for the average Dominican citizen to support a police state like the one you are calling for. Perhaps if the DR spirals to the level of Haitian style anarchy you might see real support for a Trujillo style police state to return.

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The only problem with waiting to the last minute is that by that time, it might be too late.

I know its very Trujillista and such, but look, you even made note of the positive of such act.

I think people would support something similar, though not exactly like the Trujillo secret police and that is not what I am advocating. Many folks already are advocating their preference for a government of "mano dura" (hard hand or hard grip on things).

Trujillo's secret police arrested people with out cause and not even based on rumors, they simply arrested people just because!

What I am suggesting is more cautionary than such, interogatting, getting tips from people, making as sure as possible that such person is a bad apple before the "pre-emptive" penalty is imposed on such person before they make the crime.

I'm just getting sick and tired of these Mexico City style crimes appearing on our shores. I mean, this was not even in Metropolitan Santo Domingo where such crime would be more "acceptable" because of the nature of a big city. This was in the countryside! In Punta Rucia! You know, the supposedly safe "campo"!

There are times when people have to make harsh decisions. Either we continue to hold onto our freedoms and continue to live in fear from crime, or we TEMPORARILY give up some of our freedoms for the sake of society.

I prefer the second option because it brings the possibility of peace to return as normalcy rather than continue to fear for one's life when we stick our heads outside the window.

Don't get me wrong, I am not paranoid or even worried about me being a victim of crime given the relatively low chances for any single individual to become a victim of crime, but those low chances are becoming bigger and bigger. What type of country will my children live in? Will they need bullet proof vest to go outside?

What's next? Urban terrorism? Look at Argentina, they got banks being bombed!

We need to do something now that we have these crimes in their infancy rather than waiting until it gets too out of hand.

But, it should be done with the consent of the people, just to be democratic in the process.

However, people got tired of lliving in fear of the government. That was why so many movements plotted against him. Trujillo's brutality got him killed.

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Joel, sorry to disgress with you here, but actually the people had little to do with Trujillo's demise. What happened was that Trujillo fell into disfavor after he attempted to assassinate the US backed president of Venezuela, R?mulo Betancourt, which provoked an international embargo against the DR, and when Trujillo, unable or unwilling to sort out the diplomatic mess, sent emissaries to Moscow for support from the Kremlin, his fate was sealed.

Mirador