Aventura - RD$1 million

nyjcr

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does anyone know what happened to Aventura, I heard they are banned from any concerts in the Dominican Republic as well as a 1 million in fines...

thanks
nyjc
 

Badussy

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nyjcr said:
does anyone know what happened to Aventura, I heard they are banned from any concerts in the Dominican Republic as well as a 1 million in fines...

thanks
nyjc


They had sex on stage.
 

Marianopolita

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On Monday of this week, February 21, 2005, I saw a brief report on El Show del Mediod?a (Dominican TV Program) and basically one of the band members got a little too brazen on stage with a member of the audience. You can fill in the blanks for yourself.



-Lesley D-
 

miguel

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He did this:

One of the group member, as a fan was dancing on stage, took his pant off and started simulating a sexual act with the fan.

Morally wrong, yes. Indecent, yes. He should not have do it because there were kids in the audience, yes. BUTTTT, it's part of a show.

I have no respect for what he did but I am a true fan of Alice Cooper and when he used to bite the head off a bat, I saw it as part of his show and when, one of my favorites bands, The Rolling Stones' Mick and Ron used to kiss on stage, I saw it as part of the show also.

If they want to make themselves look like idiots, let them. All Aventura will gain is for some of their fans to lose interest in them and that will be good news to me. Crappy bachata's loss would be merengue's gain!.
 
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Marianopolita

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Miguel....

Miguel I was not aware that it was part of the show. I guess this is a trend now in light of other open acts in SD lately. There's definitely a morality problem among youth.

As well one poster commented that this is another reason to dislike bachata. I beg to differ; it is a reason to dislike that particular group. If one does not like bachata that's perfectly fine but to condemn the whole genre does not make sense to me (only unless the comment had an underlying meaning which I missed). If anything it will defame the genre even more but that is subject to personal discretion and opinion.



-Lesley D-
 

rellosk

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miguel said:
I have no respect for what he did but I am a true fan of Alice Cooper and when he used to bite the head off a bat..
I think it was Ozzy Osbourne who used to bite the head off a bat. (There was an incident where a fan threw a live chicken on stage at an Alice Cooper concert, but he threw it back. I think Alice was big on snakes). I could be wrong; those years are just a blur.
 

miguel

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Actually!

rellosk said:
I think it was Ozzy Osbourne who used to bite the head off a bat. (There was an incident where a fan threw a live chicken on stage at an Alice Cooper concert, but he threw it back. I think Alice was big on snakes). I could be wrong; those years are just a blur.
Alice Cooper did it first, and since Ozzy "had" to do it too, Alice stopped.

Lesley, when I said "part of the show", I meant to say that anything that happens on a concert, it's fair game. I remember once, Ron Wood of the Stones, when a fan jumped on the stage, he "smacked" the fan with his microphone, wham, right on the fan's head. Auch!!!.
 

Bartolomeo67

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Aventura back in Belgium!

Aventura are back in Belgium on March 19th! YES!
And I will be there.
As for the incident, I think it has been a part of their show since last Summer already. Maybe they went a bit too far this time. I hope they don't do it in Dubai. The guy might have something cut off under islam law. ;)
Bartolomeo
 

Marianopolita

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Miguel...

Miguel thanks for the clarification but don?t you think it does tie in somehow with all the open acts in public lately? Me refiero a las dos mujeres en la Lincoln. A few weeks ago I read a journalist commentary in El Listin D and there is definitely a concern about youth morality. Other than "attention" what stopped Aventura (or the lead singer) from stopping himself?


-Lesley D-


miguel said:
Alice Cooper did it first, and since Ozzy "had" to do it too, Alice stopped.

Lesley, when I said "part of the show", I meant to say that anything that happens on a concert, it's fair game. I remember once, Ron Wood of the Stones, when a fan jumped on the stage, he "smacked" the fan with his microphone, wham, right on the fan's head. Auch!!!.
 

miguel

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See here!

Lesley D said:
Miguel thanks for the clarification but don’t you think it does tie in somehow with all the open acts in public lately? Me refiero a las dos mujeres en la Lincoln. A few weeks ago I read a journalist commentary in El Listin D and there is definitely a concern about youth morality. Other than "attention" what stopped Aventura (or the lead singer) from stopping himself?


-Lesley D-
To answer your question, it should not. Why?, because a person from ANY group, is a public figure so they should know better since some look up to them. Example: If I do what he did, SOME would not care but since he is a public figure and was performing for "pay", SOME would not appreciate his behaviour/behavior, specially those that took their children to see the "show".

That's all folks, nothing more to say on this "bachata" thread. Bachatas from bachateros and Miguelito do not mix!.

BTW, remember that those guys are NOT ORIGINALS, JUST IMITATORS, BAD IMITATORS, BUT IMITATORS NONETHELESS!!

Ps: When you guys talk about "freedom of speech and press", I hope that you guys realize that we are talking about the DR here. A whole different MONSTER!!.
 
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MrMike

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Lesley D said:
Miguel I was not aware that it was part of the show. I guess this is a trend now in light of other open acts in SD lately. There's definitely a morality problem among youth.

As well one poster commented that this is another reason to dislike bachata. I beg to differ; it is a reason to dislike that particular group. If one does not like bachata that's perfectly fine but to condemn the whole genre does not make sense to me (only unless the comment had an underlying meaning which I missed). If anything it will defame the genre even more but that is subject to personal discretion and opinion.



-Lesley D-

If you read my (short) post more carefully, I don't have any problem with them simulating sex on stage, I have aproblem with them apologizing afterwards.

The DR lacks basic freedom of speech and press, and I think more civil disobedience in this regard would do the country good, but not if your going to apoligize for it and suck up to the government (which has no business getting involved in anyone's morality - unless they'd like to take a break from wholesale corruption and drug smuggling.)
 

Marianopolita

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MrMike,

Actually that was the part of your post that confused me that is why I put my disclaimer in brackets in the hope that you would expand a bit more. I now understand what you are saying about the "freedom of speech" issue but disagree with the Aventura act being an example. I just find it completely unacceptable. I truly believe in drawing the line somewhere. "Freedom of speech and press" can be implemented via other methods in my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification,

-Lesley D-


MrMike said:
If you read my (short) post more carefully, I don't have any problem with them simulating sex on stage, I have aproblem with them apologizing afterwards.

The DR lacks basic freedom of speech and press, and I think more civil disobedience in this regard would do the country good, but not if your going to apoligize for it and suck up to the government (which has no business getting involved in anyone's morality - unless they'd like to take a break from wholesale corruption and drug smuggling.)
 

MrMike

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Lesley D said:
MrMike,

Actually that was the part of your post that confused me that is why I put my disclaimer in brackets in the hope that you would expand a bit more. I now understand what you are saying about the "freedom of speech" issue but disagree with the Aventura act being an example. I just find it completely unacceptable. I truly believe in drawing the line somewhere. "Freedom of speech and press" can be implemented via other methods in my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification,

-Lesley D-

I will grant you that this is not going to help the cause of free speech and that anything that does is not going to be done by Aventura, but still am dissapointed by "artists" who apoligize for their work.

Didn't think Janet Jackson should have apologized for her Super Bowl stunt last year either. (I think she should have threatened to show'em the other boob too if they didn't all stop whining)

Did you know that "La Ley" and "Paulina Rubio" have both had videos banned in the DR because they had women making out in them? These videos are ok in the entire rest of the latin world, but not here, because good, decent Dominicans might be led astray from the righteous path of supporting corrupt government officials and smuggling baggies of drugs in their stomachs to Nueba Yol: and travel down the evil, wicked path of Lesbian experimentation.

As long as morality is going to be legislated in this country there needs to be some examination of the priority levels. As it stands it goes something like this:

Impregnating your 14-year old campo cousin:
OK as long as a shotgun wedding occurs during the first trimester.

Smuggling a gutload of cocain to the outside world:
OK as long as you use the money to buy a house for your family and a big-*** stereo system. We call this middle class.

Selling your vote for 500 pesos and a bag of rice:
No problem, I was going to vote for him anyway.

Getting jealous 'cause your wife is messing around and killing her and her boyfriend:
No problem if followed up by a quick suicide. Be sure and leave good-bye notes for your 3 girlfriends though.

Well the list goes on and on but I just realised I am ranting and I may have gotten a bit off topic so I'll stop now.
 

Marianopolita

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Mr Mike.... in response to your post

You certainly put an interesting analysis together and you are making me think. Thank you. I believe you are correct with regards to priorities when it comes to morality. From what you are saying I clearly understand that you think it's hypocritical because other issues of "moral" assessment per se occur daily and no one deems those as "corrupting" the minds of youth etc. Well, this is just another example of DR ideology, hypocrisy, priorities (or lack of) etc. This system needs serious examination but so do many other issues. Before I close I will say that on stage acts, open acts that display so-called "lack of morality" are always examined under the microscope because it's visible to the naked eye. Whereas the other examples of "immorality" you mentioned are definitely examples too but because they are day to day occurrences in some cases completely under the table etc. in the eyes of the "morality officials" they don't count.

One last aspect, you mentioned videos being banned. I have seen that logic in Venezuela. Carlos Vives' cd "La tierra del olvido" was banned because the album cover had marijuana plants on it. So the album cover sold in Venezulea only was changed. Same issue. Do people not smoke marijuana in Venezuela anyway? I am sure they do.


-Lesley D-
 
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MrMike

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Lesley D said:
One last aspect, you mentioned videos being banned. I have seen that logic in Colombia. Carlos Vives' cd and video "La tierra del olvido" was banned because the album cover had marijuana plants on it. So the album cover sold in Colombia only was changed. Same issue. Do people not smoke marijuana in Colombia anyway? I am sure they do.


-Lesley D-

Heh heh, well you know pot smokers and coke-heads are pretty much natural enemies. I guess we all know which group runs the show in Columbia.
 

Marianopolita

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Mr Mike,

Actually your response made me realize I made a mistake. It was Venezuela that requested the album cover change in order for the album to be sold there. But the morality logic still applies.


-Lesley D-


MrMike said:
Heh heh, well you know pot smokers and coke-heads are pretty much natural enemies. I guess we all know which group runs the show in Columbia.
 

MrMike

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Lesley D said:
Mr Mike,

Actually your response made me realize I made a mistake. It was Venezuela that requested the album cover change in order for the album to be sold there. But the morality logic still applies.


-Lesley D-

I am no expert on culture and morality as it applies to different cultural phenomenon, but is seems logical to assume that since the aboriginal inhabitants of the Caribbean Islands and indeed much of Latin America have had European Judeo-Christian (catholic) value systems forcefully imposed on them by genocidal conquerors then there should more rebellion against it than there is.

Where did the original occupants of this island get ideas like that they should wear clothing not at all suited for the climate here? (or that they needed any at all)

Or that rolling up these leaves and smoking them was OK, but rolling up these other ones and smoking them was for deviants and perverts (took awhile to explain deviant and pervet because the norm had to be established first and it was a long way from "normal" at the time)

As I understand it many of the first explorers were appalled to find that in many of the islands there was no concept of private property, or monogamy, or any of the things Europeans spent most of their energy at the time fussing over.

So our ancestors forced these concepts on the locals (on pain of death for those who would reject them) then went on to have a rennaissance, a sexual revolution and a general enlightenment. Several generations and many bloody wars later we come here and find their decendants only willing to go topless in private (unless they have no shame left to lose and are getting paid) and at the same time old European women are hanging around on the beach topless confusing the hell out of the locals who want to look because hey, they're boobies but at the same time can't come to grips with the fact tha those saggy blue-veined things are not attractive.

Well I'm not actually as naive as the above rant may lead some to believe, I know that keeping people convinced that we are on the brink of being washed away by perversion and delinquency is a mechanism for diverting attention away from the fact that they are being fleeced by their leaders every time they turn around, but hey - it's their island when they get tired of it they are the ones that are going to have to do something about it.
 

Marianopolita

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Mr Mike here is my response...

You presented an interesting psychoanalysis going beyond the Aventura act of indecency itself and looked into historical references and links to possible logical or illogical behaviors and public reactions to what happened on stage. However, I at this point I am just interested in focusing on the ?immorality? of the act itself. You may not agree but indecency is indecency keeping in mind the type of concert it was. It was a bachata concert and not a bachata concert & half time strip tease show. Therefore, although I understand the hypocrisy that you see when discussing ?morality? in society in general when day to day corruption goes unpunished that?s a whole different level of ?mental corruption? that remains apart from what Aventura violated. What kind of society would be living in, in the DR or elsewhere if people could expose themselves at free will or perform what is considered indecent acts as their desires dictate?

In most modern day societies it?s prohibited and all the other incorrectness needs to be addressed in my esteem on a different level. As I mentioned in my previous posts this could be a trend in the DR that is slowly manifesting itself to be an open problem and I think it does need immediate attention. Other than the recent open act of lesbianism on Avenida Abraham Lincoln do you remember when some youth were seen going down the same avenue naked in a jeepeta? Again the morality flags were raised and people started questioning what is wrong with our society yet as you said other corrupt practices are not questioned.

Basically, these problems need to be addressed on various levels because in a nutshell they are fruits of same tree. Having said all this my primary interest remains in the youth of today. Mr Mike te pregunto: ?Qui?n es el responsable de educar a la juventud y c?mo podemos definir los valores de la sociedad?


Regards,

Lesley D


==============

Just to refresh your memory I have attached part of an article from Hoy Digital, 19 de enero, 2005 with regards to the concern for youth morality (which is my immediate concern also).


Manifest? (Reyes Acosta) que ese vergonzoso hecho no es m?s que el deterioro en que est? metida la sociedad dominicana en los ?ltimos tiempos "y yo espero que en esta semana, a ra?z de identificar el propietario del veh?culo, podamos llegar a las otras personas que ocasionaron el show de mal gusto, que dicho sea de paso est? especificado en la ley como exhibicionismo".

Adelant? que este hecho conlleva sanciones de prisi?n y multa, conforme al nuevo C?digo de Procedimiento Penal.

En la misma Abraham Lincoln, hace tres a?os un grupo de llamados ?huevitos? se pase? desnudo en una jeepeta. Fueron apresados y dejados en libertad, tras el pago de una fianza.
 
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Lambada

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I presume Aventura apologised because you don't go around upsetting Cardinal Nicolas here......(even though he wanted to expel theological students from the seminary who had homosexual 'mannerisms', whatever those might be!). And you're right Mr. Mike, people don't stand up for their viewpoints or indeed their rights nearly enough in the DR......not sure why, legacy of Trujillo era maybe? Or maybe lack of belief that anything will change? And I might be showing my age here........but do you remember all the fuss when Elvis first gyrated on stage? Perhaps the DR is entering the 1950's? Give it a few years & whatever Aventura did will probably seem tame by comparison with what will be going down then........like all those rap artists who must have 'cangrejos' because they keep scratching certain parts of their anatomies................. ;)