Budget for relocation and then...living!?

Voyager

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I know , I know!!! Check the archives! I've done that. However... these figures are as volatile as jet fuel, aren't they? So I decided to try the patience of this board by asking for brief comments if I am way off in my budgetary reasoning.

All figures are in Dominican pesos and intended for two people. Currency and estimated cost as of 16 March, 2005.

Pre-Conditions:

I bring nothing except cash to move to Santo Domingo and live with my lady. She already has a job, or rather several.

The cash I could bring equals RD 4,000,000 (= cashing in my pension plan, funds and stocks into real cash).

Initial cost of re-location:

Apartment in good location (Mirador sud?) = RD 2,000,000 (or more?)

Furniture, household utensils, kitchen equipment etc = RD 1,000,000

Car (for me; the lady already has one) = RD 500,000

=> Total initial cost = RD 3,500,000

Cost of living (2 people):

RD 50,000 per month (food, hygien, clothes, electricity, internet, insurances, gasolene for car, entertainment, etc)

Two trips to Europe etc per year = RD 300,000 (for me, this is part of "living")

=> Total cost of "living" = RD 900,000 per year or RD 75,000 per month.

So after the initial investment, I will only have RD 500,000 left. Not enough for any kind of investment, only just about to keep for the unexpected. And if total salary for two is RD 75,000, we can look forward to poverty in our old age. Geez! It is sunny and warm in DR but what difference does it make, when the bailiff and the grim reaper are standing outside our front door...

So, anyway... am I right on or way off?
 
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Pib

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I'll give this a try, merely as mental gymnastics... or maybe brain farts. You decide
Voyager said:
Apartment in good location (Mirador sud?) = RD 2,000,000 (or more?)
Add at least another million to that.

I am not well versed in real estate, but as an example the apartment on the ground floor on this building is for sale. It is much smaller than ours, ours has many other "amenities" that the one on the ground floor doesn't have. They are asking for 3.3 million pesos, and this is Mirador Norte, which is slightly cheaper than Mirador Sur. I thought it was an outrageous price, but what do I know.

Furniture, household utensils, kitchen equipment etc = RD 1,000,000
We did ours for a bit over than half that. And that was when the peso was at its highest. We have good quality furniture.

Car (for me; the lady already has one) = RD 500,000
That money can get you a 4 year old car.

RD 50,000 per month (food, hygien, clothes, electricity, internet, insurances, gasolene for car, entertainment, etc)
That sounds about alright. You can fine-tune it if you want to come down a bit, but not much.

Two trips to Europe etc per year = RD 300,000 (for me, this is part of "living")
We can't afford to travel more than once a year, for time constraints and because we are too stingy. But I think that you are a bit too low on this. If you are travelling together (which is always the case with us) just the tickets will eat more than half of your yearly budget... in one trip! If it is just you, then I can think you can pull it off... almost.

So after the initial investment, I will only have RD 500,000 left. Not enough for any kind of investment, only just about to keep for the unexpected. And if total salary for two is RD 75,000, we can look forward to poverty in our old age. Geez! It is sunny and warm in DR but what difference does it make, when the bailiff and the grim reaper are standing outside our front door...

So, anyway... am I right on or way off?
Moving to the D.R. cold turkey is expensive. Really expensive. Maybe you should consider renting for a while, while you work things out.
 
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Voyager

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Pib said:
Moving to the D.R. cold turkey is expensive. Really expensive. Maybe you should consider renting for a while, while you work things out.

Thanks for your comments, "Pib" ! I was hoping to get corrected and told that I had exagerrated, but alas... so now my heart is sinking...

By comparison:

- My latest "voyager" trip cost RD 140,000 for me alone.
- I know really nice country-side areas in Sweden, where you can buy a whole farm for RD 3,800,000.
- The average person in Sweden has total savings in the bank of approx. RD 90,000. (So by comparison, I am quite wealthy, but still don't have enough for moving to DR)

How can anyone, except the very rich, move to DR??? I think I will re-locate to France instead...
 

Pib

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Voyager said:
- I know really nice country-side areas in Sweden, where you can buy a whole farm for RD 3,800,000.
Well, I am sure you can find something cheaper. But as I said, rent first and window shop for an apartment in the meantime. That's the only way you can find a good sale, we did, it wasn't a fluke, it was months of searching every day.
 

Pib

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BTW, we are very far from rich. Just patient, and at least on my side, frugal. You sacrifice some things and gain others. It's a matter of priorities.

You can PM me if you want.
 

Voyager

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Exactamente!!!

Pib said:
You sacrifice some things and gain others. It's a matter of priorities.


Yes, true! Very true! I guess the hard part of it, is to pause for a moment in the hectic pace of life, and try to figure out what your priorities really are? I mean, what they really, really, really ARE???

As for me, I know what I want to do, but sadly it doesn't tally (in my Swedish mind) with the things I know I should do!
 

NotLurking

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I'll take a stab at it...(more on the suggestion side)

You should not buy anything major until after spending about 6 month to a year here. I think you shouldn't purchase the car or furniture without having bought the house yet. You should also rent for the first year. If your better half has a job that can support both of you, get a 3 month CD with compounding interest otherwise don't compound interest. Use the interest earned to cover your living expenses. Try to spend as little as possible until you know the ropes well. Use the idle time (1st year here) to find a reasonably priced (an opportunity) apartment. Continue renewing the CD (every 3 month) until you find the right place for you. if it takes you about 1 year to find your dream house you'll make close to RD$ 1 million on the CD. (today's interest on CD is from 18-24%...shop around)

Consider renting in a lower class neighborhood than you would like to live in for the first year. It will offer you a real saving in $$ and well also expose you to the DR better. Try not to rent for more than 1/4-1/3 of the monthly interest payment (RD$15-20k). If you wait to buy, you may get lucky and find a fabulous place close to what you quoted (~2.5 mills). You may also find just the right car at the right price for you. The same holds true for the furniture shopping. Finally, if it doesn't work out or you change your mind after a year of living here, not much would be lost - just get up an leave. Don't rush yourself be patient; buying a house is a big step anywhere in the world.

Good luck,
NotLurking
 

Criss Colon

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First You Need To Take A Deep Breath!

Then a big glass of whatever "Swedes" drink to relax.Just about anything with alcohol from what I've heard!
SLOW DOWN!
I recommend that anyone who wants to move to the DR,first RENT a small furnished apt.for one year!
Don't buy a car right away.Your wife? had a car anyway right?You will find a good deal as time goes buy anyhow.
Leave most of your money at "home",where it will be safe for now.
Your wife is Dominican? Don't let her talk you into buying everything right away.
Take your time,you may be back in Sweden before a year is up.
Better to be back with most of your money,right?
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

"NotLurking" and I were giving you the same advice,at the same time! It MUST be true! CC
 
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Voyager

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Thanks for the advice, youall!

And CC, when you say "Then a big glass of whatever "Swedes" drink to relax.Just about anything with alcohol from what I've heard!" I think you are very much spot on. Given the fact that I am half Finnish (half Finnished, some of my friends say...) it's even worse... When a Swede says "Cheers!" before every drink, the Finn asks him if they are there to talk or to drink!

However, "NotLurking", it is not all that easy to get and leave; at least not when you are 48, as I am. I mean, go where?

Guess I am in for a serious discussion with "the lady"... :ermm:
 

Naufrago

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Forget about a really nice area. 4,000,000 will get you the apartment only. Live with your lady, don't spend a dime. And start getting some some money coming in, get a feel for what kind of income you'll be making here. It's hard to understand the economics of living here until you actually see what you're pulling in. It's a whole new world. I came with around the same amount of cash, bought an OK apartment a crummy old car, and have two kids in private school. We brought our furniture and electronics, but the shipping and customs fees were an interesting education. Take it slow, you may find that what looks acceptable in 6 months, provides a wider range of choices, than your 1st world eye may see at first. Rents are high too, relative to income, I also hate giving my money to a landlord, but take it slow and try to live for free till you truly understand what you're getting into.
 

carina

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I competely agree with the advices you have gotten so far.
Have you been here alot, aside from the tourist areas? I mean for longer periods?
If not, go slow, and take it day by day..
To see if the relationship works out on a daily basis, and I can assure you;
where you think you want to live the first months or the first year, might not be where you in the end feel "home".
Rent an apartment, then you are free to change your mind. You will.
Or maybe your lady have an apartment here, where you can live the first months?
Same with car, furniture.. go slowly... In no time you will still have everything you need!
And dont bring all money directly, keep them safe only for you to touch.

And good luck, lycka till!
 

TEHAMA

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NotLurking said:
You should not buy anything major until after spending about 6 month to a year here. I think you shouldn't purchase the car or furniture without having bought the house yet. You should also rent for the first year. If your better half has a job that can support both of you, get a 3 month CD with compounding interest otherwise don't compound interest. Use the interest earned to cover your living expenses. Try to spend as little as possible until you know the ropes well. Use the idle time (1st year here) to find a reasonably priced (an opportunity) apartment. Continue renewing the CD (every 3 month) until you find the right place for you. if it takes you about 1 year to find your dream house you'll make close to RD$ 1 million on the CD. (today's interest on CD is from 18-24%...shop around)

Consider renting in a lower class neighborhood than you would like to live in for the first year. It will offer you a real saving in $$ and well also expose you to the DR better. Try not to rent for more than 1/4-1/3 of the monthly interest payment (RD$15-20k). If you wait to buy, you may get lucky and find a fabulous place close to what you quoted (~2.5 mills). You may also find just the right car at the right price for you. The same holds true for the furniture shopping. Finally, if it doesn't work out or you change your mind after a year of living here, not much would be lost - just get up an leave. Don't rush yourself be patient; buying a house is a big step anywhere in the world.

Good luck,
NotLurking

Interesting. Very good advice, actually. Not bad for "only" 53 posts.
Or was there once another screen name :classic:
TEHAMA
 

Poncho Villa

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I dont get it.......

I have been looking at all of those houses and apartments/condos for sale on the real estate pages of DR1 and everything that I see, allbiet in Cabarete and the surrounding area, seem very reasonably priced. I guess what I'm reading (from the posts) is that there are much better deals to be had? I am assuming that for around 100k usd I could get a decent place in a decent neighborhood in Sosua. Am I off base? As far as the living expences, 2k usd seems like an awfull lot per month. Hell I eat out all the time as it is and survive quite well on a $700 salarie :classic: I understand that everything is imported but if the locals can live on 14k pesos per month, why cant a foreghner?

Then again I am a very simple person with simple needs, Presidente being one of them. Wait, hmmmmmm Yep 2k a month in beer is not unreasonable to assume for me.......

Poncho
 

NotLurking

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Poncho Villa said:
...I understand that everything is imported but if the locals can live on 14k pesos per month, why cant a foreghner?

What you are failing to understand is priority! It's all about what is really important to you and yours. It's not about a preconceived or an expected way of living. it's about doing the best you can with what you have.

Most people that live in 1st world countries (ex. USA) believe that the only way they could possibly live is the way they currently live now and don't allow themselves room to try a different lifestyle. Air Conditioning is nice but it is not a life or death necessity. It actually is quite easy to live without half the things most people think they absolutely need to live if you set your mind to it.

I'm dominican by birth but lived in NYC my whole life. I was really stressed out about 5 years ago and told my wife that I was ready for a change and we packed, left and have no plans of returning to that lifestyle again.

Life has been difficult at time and we've prioritized as all good dominicans do. When we were financially tight, (only $20k month income) we adjusted. That meant no AC, water heater, maid, gardener, going out or anything that cost money that wasn't a 'life or death' necessity.

Now we're doing quite well and spending very little just the same! We've learned to be very frugal and we are always saving for a rainy day. We have 3 kids and spend about 50k per month on average including school for two of our kids attending el 'Dominico Americano' in SD (not really a cheap school). My living standard here in DR is better than what I had in NYC.

Life is good and it gets better when you truly understand what really is important to you and yours, particularly if you are willing to sacrifice a little in hopes of eventually gaining so much more.

NotLurking
 

Voyager

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NotLurking said:
Life is good and it gets better when you truly understand what really is important to you and yours... NotLurking


Buenas again, "NotLurking"!

I have enjoyed reading your posts here. You have "been there and done that" and you have come to a realization that many people, or maybe most people?, will never have.

Above quote from you is very true. The thing is to allow yourself the opportunity to try to grasp that understanding of what it is that really matters to you. I am still struggling with that.

There is so much in life and so many aspects on living. Sometimes, I feel blocked in my thinking by being absorbed in the process of living. I feel that I would like to step down for a while, take that deep breath that CC mentioned in his post and allow my thoughts and my spirit to catch up with my body.

Oh, I am getting philosophical here... Anyway, you know what I mean!
 

Voyager

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carina said:
I competely agree with the advices you have gotten so far.
Have you been here alot, aside from the tourist areas? I mean for longer periods?
If not, go slow, and take it day by day..
To see if the relationship works out on a daily basis, and I can assure you;
where you think you want to live the first months or the first year, might not be where you in the end feel "home".
Rent an apartment, then you are free to change your mind. You will.
Or maybe your lady have an apartment here, where you can live the first months?
Same with car, furniture.. go slowly... In no time you will still have everything you need!
And dont bring all money directly, keep them safe only for you to touch.

And good luck, lycka till!


Hej Carina!

Are you living in Sweden? Or in DR?

I have not been to DR for longer periods. Having a job makes that impossible.
If you have a job and can afford the move, there is no time to check things out. If are unemployed and with all the time in the world to explore, then you don't have enough money for the relocation... Catch 22, huh?

During the last 5 years, I have visited DR 2 to 3 times per year, visits lasting from 5 days to 3 weeks.

A lot of my money is tied up in a form of CD (in Sweden and Bahamas) that gives me 8% a year on currency Swedish Krona. I have a number of CD's with differing end dates, so that starting 2009, I will cash in decent yearly sums during the years to follow.

Tack f?r h?lsningen!

Kram,
John
 

carina

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Hi there. I live in Puerto Plata.
When are you planning to move?
I think the best is for you to follow your heart, but dont let your heart control your head so to speak.
Come here, try it out, rent for a start, see what you like and dont like in forms of ways of living, areas of living etc etc.
If you feel the same about things after 6 months or a little more, even up to a year, and you find a place to purchase that suits you in all means, go for it.

I was sure, when I moved that I will absolutely live in Sosua. I love Sosua.
Actually now, several years later, we live in the heart of Puerto Plata, close to the Amber Museum in a house on a calm side street, And I love it, this is home and where I absolutely want to be. I did not imagine this, or plan for it in advance.
So come here, go easy, and life itself will assist you in putting you where you should be!
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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It seems to me

as the Ageless Curmudgeon (or is that the Aging Curmudgeon?) that you have received excellent, no, make that OUTSTANDING advice regarding a possible move to the DR with just RD$4,000,000 in the basket.

PIB is frugal, and she doesn't have to be.
Not Lurking is working here, and maybe his wife is too.
CC works and loves
Naufrago is working here

You see the commonality? They have income. If you come here and can work, then your nestegg can be multiplied. The key words that were in most of the posts were : "Take it slow."

FYI, regarding an earlier post: the Banco Popular will pay you 18% (1 1/2% per month)APR on a CD. Your RD$4 MM would generate, at today's rates, RD$60,000 a month in interest, which would provide enough for you to live, eat and save a bit, if you are frugal. That is more than 95% of the people here make. You can rent an apartment, buy a car on time (an older one for sure, and once every two years or so, you can travel. Sweden is NOT part of living!

Keep thinking...keep working, keep planning..

HB
 

Bob K

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Aug 16, 2004
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Be carefull

Good advice so far. We too are planning a move soon to the DR. One extra word of advice. Be careful of placing all of your $$$ in a peso CD account. True the interest is %18 or higher, but remember if the peso goes up by just 3 pesos ( to a 31-32per USD rate) you are going to lose 10% or more of that interest rate. If it goes to 35 you lose it all (interest that is), so your account will in buying power be a wash.

Bob K