"Real" Dominicans

RubioVargas

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Just a silly little story of a very personal experience...

Growing as a Dominican-American in an area with a relatively large number of Dominicans (Florida) isn't easy when people constantly assume you're everything but Dominican. Both of my parents are white Dominicans. By the stereotypes and common beliefs about us, no one in my immediate family looks Dominican. They don't "act" Dominican either. My mother doesn't own a single merengue album, doesn't like it, and has never even danced to it. We never displayed a Dominican flag in our car, as most tend to do. No one ever taught me how to play dominoes. My mother would cook non-Dominican food just as often as she cooked mangu or made sancocho. In fact, the only "evidence" that we might be Dominican while I was growing up was the fact that my brother and I played baseball. Don't take this to mean that my mother somehow wanted to deny our heritage either. From an early age, I learned and memorized in detail how the Dominican founding fathers lead the overthrow of the Haitians. I've even read two books about "El Generalissimo" and can debate with you all day concerning el caudillo Balaguer and if his governmant helped or hindered the progress of the country. My grandmother even took it upon herself to make sure I knew the Dominican national anthem, word for word.
Needless to say, even other Dominicans were often surprised to learn that I too was Dominican. In Florida if you're white and speak Spanish, everyone just assumes you're Cuban or Puerto-Rican. Because of my quiet, sober personality, I would often be called "pariguayo" by "real" (or so they thought) Dominicans. It would always bother me that other Dominicans never really saw me as one of their own. The fact that I lived in the Dominican Republic for five years and could read and write Spanish just as well as English did not qualify me as a "real" Dominican. Anyway...I began to dislike "real" Dominicans more and more. Until one summer when, at sixteen years of age, I had the chance to visit the country alone. I hadn't been to the country since moving to the U.S. at the age of seven.
That's when I learned what a "real" Dominican was. Dominicans, just like the people of every other country in this world, are normal people with many of the same concerns and goals that we have here in the U.S. They're not the loud-mouthed, obnoxious, baggy clothes wearing (in my generation), gringo-haters whose identity is totally wrapped up in the fact that they're Dominican. REAL Dominicans don't exaggerate their accents or somehow manage to inject "ta heavy" or "ah, po ta bien" into every sentence they speak. Real Dominicans simply know that they're Dominican. They find no need to create stereotypes in another country that give a very negative, untrue image about our people.
After talking to many REAL Dominicans, I found that they despised the type of Dominicans that had so often given me a hard time back in the U.S. Those "Dominicans" who would display their heritage as if it was a personal accomplishment are seen by REAL Dominicans as wannabes and posers. Real dominicans can easily identify someone who grew up in the U.S., no matter how hard they try to force their pathetic imitation of the Dominican accent.

Well, let me wrap this up by saying that, if you think being Dominican means drinking Presidente, thinking your God's gift to women, and having no mental filter for the garbage that makes it's way to your big mouth, then I seriously suggest taking a trip to the Dominican Republic.


Ooops!....Just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum. Anyone know how to move a post?
 
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Chris_NJ

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Dec 17, 2003
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I was picking up a cake last night in Washington Heights (163rd between Broadway and Ft Washington) and I saw a lot of the people who like you said probably thought of themselves as "real Dominicans." A lot of kids/young adults talking loudly switching back and forth between ghetto English/Dominican Spanish.

If a non Dominican like me were to take this as their only impression of what Dominicans are like or what Dominican culture is like then they would form negative opinions. Unfortunately, when I talk to older people who used to live in Washington Heights/Inwood in pre-Dominican days they are disgusted by what has become of their old neighborhoods. The problem is that their impression of Dominican people is shaped by the ones who are most visible and audible who are of course the loudmouth kids hogging the sidewalks.

As I walked last night, I had to remind myself that the obnoxious street toughs were not the only Dominicans around. There were other kids coming home from colleges, young adults returning from professional jobs, people working long hours in the salons, etc. This group of people outnumbered the "bad apples" but due to their low key profiles could be overlooked.

My point being that is one should keep a balanced view of any group (whether it be Dominicans or whoever) not just rendering opinions based on those who are loudest/most visible. The real "real" Dominicans, as you saw, are definitely out there.
 

Marianopolita

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Dec 26, 2003
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Not to downplay your post in anyway but your story is nothing new. It?s all about stereotypes, stereotyping and once again education. It always comes back to education. The way in which I see it is who defines what a typical Dominican is anyway? The image of Dominicans portrayed in NYC or elsewhere is a microcosm of Dominican culture. One who cannot see beyond a small percentage of a particular group?s behavior surely is blind to many other aspects in life. Your experiences hold true for Puerto Rican culture just to compare. Puerto Rican culture and behavior in NYC or elsewhere is not representative of island. If you go to Puerto Rico you will understand what I mean. In general your experience applies to all cultures and nationalities. My solution to the problem once again is to read, educate myself and expose myself to as many cultural groups as possible. The behavior of a small number of a group, race or ethnicity never influences my perception about their culture etc. I have never thought that way and never will. If I did I would be an embarrassment to myself.


LDG
 

RubioVargas

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Lesley D said:
Not to downplay your post in anyway but your story is nothing new. It?s all about stereotypes, stereotyping and once again education. It always comes back to education. The way in which I see it is who defines what a typical Dominican is anyway? The image of Dominicans portrayed in NYC or elsewhere is a microcosm of Dominican culture. One who cannot see beyond a small percentage of a particular group?s behavior surely is blind to many other aspects in life. Your experiences hold true for Puerto Rican culture just to compare. Puerto Rican culture and behavior in NYC or elsewhere is not representative of island. If you go to Puerto Rico you will understand what I mean. In general your experience applies to all cultures and nationalities. My solution to the problem once again is to read, educate myself and expose myself to as many cultural groups as possible. The behavior of a small number of a group, race or ethnicity never influences my perception about their culture etc. I have never thought that way and never will. If I did I would be an embarrassment to myself.


LDG

I know it's nothing new Lesley. That was just a personal experience that I wanted to share. In our case, we are fortunate to have a very broad perspective of what the Dominican people are truly like. Unfortunately, as Chris pointed out, the obnoxious, uneducated Dominicans are the one's who like to make their prescence known. Normal, everyday, hardworking Dominicans don't stand out because we're busy living our day-to-day lives, just like everyone else in this country.
 

Marianopolita

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RubioVargas,

I agree with you. I am glad you did share your experience so as to "broaden people's horizons".


Thanks

Lesley D


RubioVargas said:
I know it's nothing new Lesley. That was just a personal experience that I wanted to share. In our case, we are fortunate to have a very broad perspective of what the Dominican people are truly like. Unfortunately, as Chris pointed out, the obnoxious, uneducated Dominicans are the one's who like to make their prescence known. Normal, everyday, hardworking Dominicans don't stand out because we're busy living our day-to-day lives, just like everyone else in this country.
 

quejeyoke

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The educated Dominicans (we) are the real Dominicans. I' sick and tired and embarrased by most things that hillbilly Dominicans do specially in the US and then we're viewed as morons, third worldly peeps; ask most puerto ricans. Half of my life was spent in SD and the other in the US so I have a wide perspective of what type of Dominicans you come across in the DR and US. It happens that most Dominicans in the US are from the mountains and it aint hard to tell, if you know what I mean. I have zero Dominican friends in the US. We can't click for some reason, maybe it's 'cause I keep running into hillbilly Dominicans that wear their pride on friggin' Dominican-flag-printed on a CD-hung from the rear view mirror and talk just as Dominican. The "friends" from DR were made as a child but everybody hangs with their little group, which is fine, since I get to play "diplomat" and they don't get under my skin like most Dominicans you come across in the US do. Anyway, real Dominicans in the US don't display their nationality for obvious reasons, if you know what I mean!...
 
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RubioVargas

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quejeyoke said:
The educated Dominicans (we) are the real Dominicans. I' sick and tired and embarrased by most things that hillbilly Dominicans do specially in the US and then we're viewed as morons, third worldly peeps; ask most puerto ricans. Half of my life was spent in SD and the other in the US so I have a wide perspective of what type of Dominicans you come across in the DR and US. It happens that most Dominicans in the US are from the mountains and it aint hard to tell, if you know what I mean. I have zero Dominican friends in the US. We can't click for some reason, maybe it's 'cause I keep running into hillbilly Dominicans that wear their pride on friggin' Dominican-flag-printed on a CD-hung from the rear view mirror and talk just as Dominican. The "friends" from DR were made as a child but everybody hangs with their little group, which is fine, since I get to play "diplomat" and they don't get under my skin like most Dominicans you come across in the US do. Anyway, real Dominicans in the US don't display their nationality for obvious reasons, if you know what I mean!...

Right on quejeyoke!

A large part of the problem is also that the children of Dominican immigrants overwhelmingly (especially in NYC) embrace U.S. ghetto culture. This subculture, obviously, creates the idea that it's cool to live an unproductive life hanging out on street corners and creating trouble for yourself and others around you. It's also uncool to speak properly (in English or Spanish) or to make any attempt to improve yourself by honest means (not selling drugs or doing anything else illegal).
Though my circle of close friends and acquaitances is made up mostly of non-Dominicans, I've been blessed with meeting a few real, educated, NORMAL Dominicans over the years. They're the ones I truly see as my people, not the thugs and posers from "Guashington" Heights.
 
Dec 9, 2002
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A large part of the problem is also that the children of Dominican immigrants overwhelmingly (especially in NYC) embrace U.S. ghetto culture. This subculture, obviously, creates the idea that it's cool to live an unproductive life hanging out on street corners and creating trouble for yourself and others around you. It's also uncool to speak properly (in English or Spanish) or to make any attempt to improve yourself by honest means (not selling drugs or doing anything else illegal).
That doesn't apply solely to the children of Dominican immigrants to US, it applies the world over - and not just to children of immigrants either. It seems to be a growing phenomenon here in UK that young white kids look [apart from their skin colour ;) ] and sound exactly like the young black street kids. I think it's just the age old case of kids rebelling against their parents expectations.
 

miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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Me too!

Lesley D said:
Not to downplay your post in anyway but your story is nothing new. It’s all about stereotypes, stereotyping and once again education.
I will agree with you 100%, Lesley. Education is just about the "key" to EVERYTHING.

I am also a product of white dominicans (Great-grandparents were from Spain. Maternal grandad from Puero Rico. Paternal from Spain). But even thought I came to the US when I was about 10 (3rd youngest out of 8), my mother raised us as a single mother and she never, ever allowed us to forget our heritage.

I have a brother that was 18 at the time and before coming to the US, he was very much involved with the "everythings" of the DR. He was involved in international politics and I remember my mother asigning a "dominican day" (Saturday from 9am until 12pm)at the house where my brother would make us read dominican history and made us read the dominican newspapers. After the quizes, then it was time for international history. Talking about Chavez, Castro, Mother Theresa, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Idi Amin, Che Guevara, Mao, Trujillo, Caamano Deno, Balaguer, Enrique Blanco, among others, was a norm in our household.

Mom always spoke about our dominicans ancestors and made sure that we never forget where we came from. English was allowed to be spoken among ourselves but never when speaking to her. There was no "mom, can I have some mangu". She would test us al the time with "how do you say this in spanish?", if we were wrong, she would tell us how to say it.

Our dominican "bandera" was at the table 90% of the time. It's something that up to this day I can not live without. Not because she grew up with it, because she did not, but because, as she used to say, that is also part of being dominican.

People, mostly spanish people have a hard time believing that I am dominican because some people think that all dominicans are black, bachata lovers, listen to loud music, wife beaters, deadbeats, only work in factories or are drug dealers. Then the see someone like my brothers or me that are none of the above and all they can say is "oh, you are not the typical dominicano". I always just smile and say "yes I am". I even remember an episode in college where a group of friends were making bets, trying to guess my nationality. Nobody won.

My mom and brother told me from an early age that a person's education never ends. There are always new things to learn (maybe that's the reason that I am 42 now and my brother still calls me to quiz me about some current events, every now and then, God bless him).

When I went back to the DR on vacation, 9 years later (I was 20), it was like I never left. I was not an stranger in my own country like many dominicans that I know. Since I was up-to date with what was happening in the country, I felt right at home.

All that said, now: "me pueden traer unas habichuelitas rojas con arroz blanco, ensalada verde, dos o tres tostones, una presidente y que no se te olvide el aguacate por favor si no quieres que te tire dos o tres dichos". Sorry, just practicing for when I get there, within days!!!. ;)
 
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Marianopolita

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Para Miguel...

Wow Miguel,

Me emocion?. Me gust? mucho lo que escribiste. Gracias por compartir tu historia.

Most of all I could see that you truly understand my message about education. I keep stressing this because I really believe it?s the key to all hope when it comes to improving human relations and perception. All these issues that you and the others posters mentioned can be resolved by ?education? . What people have to realize is that education is not only in book form. It?s a culmination of learning processes via different methods. For example books, travel, mingling with other cultures, language and living the true cultural components everyday in and out of the home as you mentioned. There?s still hope in terms of changing the stereotype.

Thanks again,

Lesley D
 

mondongo

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i have to agree with the light skinned dominicans posting in this thread. it really embarrasses me when people think that i am black...just because i am dominican.
 

Tvagyok!

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Tony comprehends ye

Hi,
It makes me feel merry to come to this message board and see threads with sophisticated Dominicans as yourselves. I, as a quisqueyano born in the Grand Apple,
have been abundantly blessed with the parents and family that I have. My siblings and I have been brought up to be good people, as well as studious and ambitious. The Dominican culture has always been present in our home, such as with the food and language, but the most important thing that has always been present has been the love for one another. I can be proud of my parents, since they symbolize the real Dominicans, decent, hard-working people who came to this land of opportunity to ameliorate themselves with the chances of a better life. We have lived in a decent neighborhood all our lives, but the Dominican culture in our household has never been eradicated. However, my siblings and I have never really behaved as the typical Dominicans, especially my brother, who has always had, and still has, great pride for the U.S. and the city where he has lived all his life (N.Y.C.), as well as the other brother and sister and I. As far as physical appearance, my family is mixed, since my parents have Caribbean Indian influence as well Spanish influence, which
comes from their great-grandparents coming from the Iberian land of Spain, as well as their physical appearance being light-skinned with blue or green-colored eyes and the hair being of the blond version. I have some relatives who are dark and look Caribbean Indian or maybe African,
so there is some African influence in the family, as well as in the culture, since that is what gives it its main flavor.
My siblings and I are all on the light side as far as the appearance, and we're 4, so half of us came out really light (or "blanco") and the other half (my female sibling and I included) came out light with a tan.
I have always enjoyed Dominican music, as well as reading the history of the country and drawing maps of it and the flag. I have a map with the flag that I sketched in my personal pad or bedroom.
We have never been thought to be quisqueyanos, especially my siblings and I, who have always been confused with being of the Italian or Greek, or even Jewish ethnicity. I have always discussed this with my mother, and she says that it doesn't matter what the typical Dominican is like, as long as I am a good one who sets a good example for that nationality. When I tell her that people may tend to think that we all black, she says it doesn't matter, since blacks are also God's children, and that is reflected in a song that she sings sometimes which goes, "Pintor, por que miras el color, si sabes que en el cielo, tambien los quiere Dios" and also, "pintame angelitos negros." This may come mainly from being religious, which is what my family really is. We all believe in putting the Lord Jesus first in our lives, and letting him guide us. My parents like reading the Bible, as well as viewing religious television and hearing religious radio. They do God's will, as well as their daily responsibities. My siblings and I think the same, and I read the Bible and listen to sermons sometimes, but mainly when I attend church every week. Other than that I listen to sermons on cassette (in Spanish) and sometimes on the radio, but in English (as well as in church).
I have always been proud of being American-born, and therefore I have practiced the culture with TV, music, sketching the U.S. states (now by heart), and singing pretend-rock songs (when I was young, I still have them recorded, now I am at the age of 30). I also have pride for my Dominican culture, with the music, food, and a little with the language (since I study foreign languages and I find ones such as Portuguese and Italian to be more interesting as native languages). So I show a sketches of both flags and nations in my room, the American and Dominican ones.
I am from one place by birth and from the other by blood.

So once again, it gives me a merry feeling to find a good place that concerns the old country where I can express myself with people that I can proudly call my people.
Peace and sunshine!
 
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Marianopolita

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Mondongo,

This is the first time I have seen a statement as unaccountable as this one from you. You see what you fail to realize is it really does not matter how people perceive you, what is solely important is how you perceive yourself. I say you need to let this one go or move back to the DR.


-Lesley D-


mondongo said:
i have to agree with the light skinned dominicans posting in this thread. it really embarrasses me when people think that i am black...just because i am dominican.
 

NY1

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Mondongo,


Perhaps some Dominicans are racist, but isn't this the case in any society? I am a white Dominican also, who now lives in Florida. EVERYTIME I speak Spanish I am asked if I am from PR or Cuba, I proudly say no. I am proud of the African and European heritage that shaped the Dominican history through the years.
With that said, the problems the Dominican youth in the US face is one of complacency. Unlike our parents who came here to bust their asses, they want everything handed to them on a platter, while hanging out until all hours of the evening. There is no substitute for hard work, and many of our Dominican youth have not learned that. Until they do, our Dominican society within the US will be looked upon in a bad light by outsiders.
 

RubioVargas

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Lesley D said:
Mondongo,

This is the first time I have seen a statement as unaccountable as this one from you. You see what you fail to realize is it really does not matter how people perceive you, what is solely important is how you perceive yourself. I say you need to let this one go or move back to the DR.


-Lesley D-

I don't think Mondongo meant anything mean-spirited by this comment. We are all human and we all get tired of the same thing over and over. I've also found myself becoming annoyed and irritated at the fact that we Dominicans are perceived as being exclusively black or dark-skinned. I didn't start this thread as a platform to spit out political correctness. There's enough of it in American society already, which effectively discourages people from truly speaking their mind and creating new ideas.

I totally agree with your argument that education and self-perception are the key. Still, that does not eliminate the fact that many Dominicans in the U.S. happily and even purposely create a negative stereotype for the rest of us. The bigger part of the problem of the negative Dominican stereotype in this country is caused by Dominicans themselves not by people's internal prejudice. It would be wonderful if all Dominicans who enter this country would strive to educate their children about Dominican history and culture. It would be wonderful if all second-generation Dominicans can grow up knowing about the great leaders, writers, and artists from the island. Sadly, many parents end up letting their children learn what it means to be Dominican from some "Dominican" lowlife on a street corner.
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
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RubioVargas,

I like the way you think and I hear where you are coming from.

I was surprised by Mondongo's statement because I read his posts and respect his point of view on most issues but sometimes the one-liners are misleading.

You clarified that and very well indeed.

Thanks.

LDG


RubioVargas said:
I don't think Mondongo meant anything mean-spirited by this comment. We are all human and we all get tired of the same thing over and over. I've also found myself becoming annoyed and irritated at the fact that we Dominicans are perceived as being exclusively black or dark-skinned. I didn't start this thread as a platform to spit out political correctness. There's enough of it in American society already, which effectively discourages people from truly speaking their mind and creating new ideas.
 

mondongo

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I really have to appologize for my post. It was done tongue-in-cheek....just as a reminder to all of of us that the average Dominican is dark skinned.

You fellow Dominicans strike me as intelligent well-adjusted compatriots...and its always good to see that.

We are what we are (dark skinned). I am not ashamed.
 

Tvagyok!

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Shout "Dominicans are mixed!" in people's faces

Aloha to all,
As for what mondongo and rubiovargas have felt about most people assuming that all Dominicans are of African background, I just would like to suggest that you proclaim to the people in your town that Dominicans are a mixed race. Get yourselves a speakerphone, or one of those devices that people use to talk to a big crowd, and go before a group of people, anywhere. And, as an example, you can say this, "THIS IS A SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT TO LET EVERYONE HERE KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC ARE MIXED, THEREFORE WE'RE NOT ALL DARK-SKINNED. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE NEXT TIME SOMEONE EITHER BRINGS UP THAT NATION OR SOMEONE WITH LIGHT-SKIN TELLS YOU THAT HE/SHE IS DOMINICAN AND RIGHT AWAY YOU ACT SURPRISED, BECAUSE YOU ASSUMED THAT ALL DOMINICANS ARE BLACK. IF YOU GO TO A CITY IN DR CALLED SANTIAGO, YOU WELL SEE MANY PEOPLE OF OUR COMPLEXION. SO
REMEMBER, DOMINICANS ARE MIXED!"
So, if you guys want, you can attempt that if you wish for the message of the diversity of our people to become known to Americans and all the world.
Peace and sunshine!
 

Juniper

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(I really have to appologize for my post. It was done tongue-in-cheek....just as a reminder to all of of us that the average Dominican is dark skinned.)

And I concur.

I, as well as my entire family, am very white. In fact, there is no tan, or dark skin anywhere to be found among my relatives; however, the truth of the matter is that my family does not represent the entire country.

I understand what you are all trying to say, since I have gone thru the same thing with people not believing that I am Dominican but the typical Dominican "is" dark skinned, well, tan if you like. You cannot go by a few white families you see here and there, you have to look at the entire island which is what really represents our country.
 

Oche

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Jan 6, 2004
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You have to be either much too ignorant or indifferent enough in the first place to not be able to distinguish any other type of dominicans rather than the ones you all described which are loudmouth talkers, bachata blasters, wife beaters, hillbillies, etc...but those people who cannot see the "real" dominicans they do not know better...