Dominican Republic could disappear in 50 years

Mr_DR

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They forsee DR could disappear

BARAHONA.- the military attache' of the Government of Venezuela came up that
the Dominican Republic is going to disappear in 50 years if does not
control with greater energy Haitian illegal immigration and the
depredation of the forest in its border mountains.

The captain Cesar Cuervo called to the Army to not faint in his
mission to protect the Dominican border with Haiti.

The official formulated his beliefs when going to the commander of
the Fifth Brigade of the National army, general Juan Antonio Campusano Lopez, and the superior officiality in the seat of the brigade, at the end of a route of one week of observation of the border line.

Previously the Venezuelan official and other military attache's who
crossed the border received "brifin" on the area of responsibility of
the Fifth Brigade, its mission, its organizational chart, its capacities, logistic, personnel and others. The presentation made colonel Reyes of the Orb.

Equal information received in Santiago, Valverde, San Juan of the Maguana, seats of second, fourth and third brigades, respectively, of the Army.

" It would be a shame that these so beautiful earth are going to
lose themselves by not to taking the preventive measures", This was said to captain Crow, who spoke to name of the Association of Military attache's.

The official said to feel hit by the form in which the Haitians have
depredated not only the forest and the vegetation of his country but
that are also doing the same in the Dominican part.

Fire witness, Dominican earth conquering and occupations by illegal Haitian
immigrants in the cordillerana and mountain zone of the provinces of
Dajab?n, El?as Pinas, Independencia and Pedernales, Cuervo said to want his message to be a stimulant to stop that situation.

The border trip, in which it crossed the international highway among precipices from
the position of Villa Anacaona, in Restoration, until the Banana tree, in Pedernales, Monday last in Dajab?n began and concluded yesterday late in
Pedernales.

In the trip participated lieutenant colonel Pedro Orona, of the Consultative Group of North American Military Attendance
(MAAG), and the greater Dark brown Fort, military attache' of France, with seat in Martinica.

In front of the military group was general Jose Almonte Sanchez, assistant to colonel Juan Julio Tejeda Wood, director of the magazine of the Secretary of the Armed Forces, who coordinated the visit to the border.
http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=28662


Previenen RD podr?a desaparecer 1:30 PM

BARAHONA.- El agregado militar del Gobierno de Venezuela previno que la Rep?blica Dominicana va a desaparecer en 50 a?os si no controla con mayor energ?a la inmigraci?n ilegal haitiana y la depredaci?n del bosque en sus monta?as fronterizas.

El capit?n de nav?o C?sar Cuervo llam? al Ej?rcito a no desmayar en su misi?n de resguardar la frontera dominicana con Hait?.

El oficial formul? sus pareceres al dirigirse al comandante de la Quinta Brigada del Ej?rcito Nacional, general Juan Antonio Campusano L?pez, y la oficialidad superior en la sede de la brigada, al t?rmino de un recorrido de una semana de observaci?n de la l?nea fronteriza.

Previamente el oficial venezolano y otros agregados militares que recorrieron la frontera recibieron un "brifin" sobre el ?rea de responsabilidad de la Quinta Brigada, su misi?n, su organigrama, sus capacidades, log?stica, personal y dem?s. La presentaci?n la hizo el coronel Reyes del Orbe.

Igual informaci?n recibieron en Santiago, Valverde, San Juan de la Maguana, sedes de la segunda, cuarta y tercera brigadas, respectivamente, del Ej?rcito.

"Ser?a lamentable que estas tierras tan bellas vayan a perderse por no tomar las medidas preventivas", dijo el capit?n de nav?o Cuervo, quien habl? a nombre de la Asociaci?n de Agregados Militares.

El oficial dijo sentirse impactado por la forma en que los haitianos han depredado no s?lo el bosque y la vegetaci?n de su pa?s sino que hacen lo mismo en la parte dominicana.

Testigo de incendios, conuquismo y ocupaci?n de tierras dominicanas por inmigrantes ilegales haitianos en la zona cordillerana y serrana de las provincias de Dajab?n, El?as Pi?a, Independencia y Pedernales, Cuervo dijo querer que su mensaje sea un est?mulo para detener esa situaci?n.

El viaje fronterizo, en que atraves? la carretera internacional por entre precipicios desde el puesto de Villa Anacaona, en Restauraci?n, hasta El Banano, en Pedernales, se inici? el lunes pasado en Dajab?n y concluy? ayer tarde en Pedernales.

Del recorrido participaron el teniente coronel Pedro Orona, del Grupo Consultivo de Asistencia Militar norteamericano (MAAG), y el mayor Bruno Fort, agregado militar de Francia, con sede en Martinica.

Frente al grupo militar estuvo el general Jos? Almonte S?nchez, asistido del coronel Juan Julio Tejeda Madera, director de la revista de la Secretar?a de las Fuerzas Armadas, quien coordin? la visita a la frontera.
 

Mirador

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Personally, I find captain Cuervo's quip somewhat optimistic, and of course we have to understand the audience. Illegal migration and deforestation have become big business, and our own military, particularly in the border are more part of the problem than the solution...
 

NALs

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I think everybody knows what the future of this country's legitimacy (spelling?) is for the future if the current tide of illegal migration continues.

Along the border region today, you are just as likely to hear people speak French Creole as they are to speak Spanish.

Already, a full 1% of the people in this country speak French-Creole, most of them are in the border region and in slum areas, especially the slums of Santo Domingo where Haitians and poor Dominicans live side by side. Many Dominicans from poor areas such as La Cienaga and/or La Zurza have been known to comment that they are sorrounded by Haitians in their communities and I won't be surprised if it's true.
 

rellosk

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Nal0whs said:
Along the border region today, you are just as likely to hear people speak French Creole as they are to speak Spanish.
Substitute Spanish for Creole and English for Spanish and that's exactly what the anti-immigration folks say in the US.
 

NALs

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rellosk said:
Substitute Spanish for Creole and English for Spanish and that's exactly what the anti-immigration folks say in the US.
It's the same story everywhere in the world.

It's not the changer per se that people fear, it's the consequences.

Nobody knows what consequences will come from these changes. We can only guess by comparing to the country of origin of the immigrants. In our case, we can only expect the DR to fall and become as problem plagued as Haiti as more and more Haitian make the DR their home.

In the US, Americans could be expecting their "rich" country to become as problem plagued and poor as Latin American countries as more and more Hispanics call the US home.

The issue with these two problems is not the change in themselves, but that these migration patterns are in large numbers, in a short period of time, and they are having such quick and profound changes that are becoming strong and appear to become permanent, if not replace the current (more historically based) culture of both places.

Now that I think of it, I guess we are afraid to lose our identity. After all we have gone through, the last thing we want to the lose our identity in the end. I suppose that's what's all about.
 

Mr_DR

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Nal0whs said:
It's the same story everywhere in the world.

It's not the changer per se that people fear, it's the consequences.

Nobody knows what consequences will come from these changes. We can only guess by comparing to the country of origin of the immigrants. In our case, we can only expect the DR to fall and become as problem plagued as Haiti as more and more Haitian make the DR their home.

In the US, Americans could be expecting their "rich" country to become as problem plagued and poor as Latin American countries as more and more Hispanics call the US home.

The issue with these two problems is not the change in themselves, but that these migration patterns are in large numbers, in a short period of time, and they are having such quick and profound changes that are becoming strong and appear to become permanent, if not replace the current (more historically based) culture of both places.

Now that I think of it, I guess we are afraid to lose our identity. After all we have gone through, the last thing we want to the lose our identity in the end. I suppose that's what's all about.
Not only our identidy but our beautiful country to go along with it too
and those that don't see these haitians as deforestation plagues, better make sure they keep nice memories and pictures, so that they can show their great grand children some day, and tell them the story about the once upon a time the exsistence of a paradise called, the Dominican Republic.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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hysterical scare-mongering reminiscent of another time and another place

Nal0whs said:
I think everybody knows what the future of this country's legitimacy (spelling?) is for the future if the current tide of illegal migration continues.

Along the border region today, you are just as likely to hear people speak French Creole as they are to speak Spanish.

Already, a full 1% of the people in this country speak French-Creole, most of them are in the border region and in slum areas, especially the slums of Santo Domingo where Haitians and poor Dominicans live side by side. Many Dominicans from poor areas such as La Cienaga and/or La Zurza have been known to comment that they are sorrounded by Haitians in their communities and I won't be surprised if it's true.

- still no luck on finding that cite, eh, Nals. ;)

Have you been to La Cienaga and La Zurza?

I have.
 

Lambada

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Chiri,
I think you ought to give a 'brifin' on the subject......... ;)

Still looking for the greater dark brown Fort.........if he weren't the French rep. I'd have thought there was a subliminal message in there....... Captain Crow on the other hand HAS to be a subliminal message.
 
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Chirimoya

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Lambada said:
Chiri,
I think you ought to give a 'brifin' on the subject......... ;)

Still looking for the greater dark brown Fort.........if he weren't the French rep. I'd have thought there was a subliminal message in there....... Captain Crow on the other hand HAS to be a subliminal message.

Hee - drivel is drivel, but the pisspoor babelfish treatment takes it to a new dimension. The symbolism is uncanny, I agree. What about colonel reyes of the orb? Sounds like some sinister extraterrestrial invasion to me. Now that would have me worried.
 

Naufrago

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rellosk said:
Substitute Spanish for Creole and English for Spanish and that's exactly what the anti-immigration folks say in the US.

Actually, I think we all better start learning to speak Chinese, it's just a matter of time. :eek:
 

dmad

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Hongcouver

I don't know if any of this means much, go to Vancouver or Toronto where Canadians are the minority. Or I should say born Canadians, it doesn't mean Canada will be gone in fifty years. That is of coarse the entire world does'nt becomes part of China
 

Mr_DR

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Chirimoya said:
Hee - drivel is drivel, but the pisspoor babelfish treatment takes it to a new dimension. The symbolism is uncanny, I agree. What about colonel reyes of the orb? Sounds like some sinister extraterrestrial invasion to me. Now that would have me worried.
I would not disagree with the message that these officers are trying to convey, and it sad that some of these attitudes and sarcasm displayed among us by not acknowledging, is one of the main reason for their DR "disappearance statement".

Have you ever compared both countries by looking down from above?
If you do, you can see that Haiti looks like a cancer that is slowly spreading into DR territory.

Plus I don"t think it is uncanny when it is already happening.
 

Mr_DR

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dmad said:
I don't know if any of this means much, go to Vancouver or Toronto where Canadians are the minority. Or I should say born Canadians, it doesn't mean Canada will be gone in fifty years. That is of coarse the entire world does'nt becomes part of China
It is not the same because you are talking about Canada here as the only territory, and you are still canadian whether you were born in Vancouver, Toronto or Quebec. Here we are talking about people that are not even dominican but do penetrate our borders as well as destroying every forests they come into contact with.

Just remember that Haiti was once as beautiful and green just as much as the DR is. Unfortunately earth can only take so much abuse to an extent before it turns completely dry as if it was a curse, unwilling to yield the essence that gives a country life.
I personally think that all Haitians should be picked out of Haiti, transferred into Canada and the US and just turn Haiti in to a Glass Park.
 

Chirimoya

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Dominicans are doing a good enough job of turning their beautiful country into hell on earth, whether by choking the cities with polluting vehicles and plantas, overusing natural resources such as water, polluting rivers and seas and using mountains of disposables of all sorts without a second thought.

Not to downplay the problem of deforestation, but it is not a Haitian problem as much as a problem of poverty. Give a poor person an alternative and they will not cut down trees for charcoal. Poor Dominicans used to do it before gas stoves were distributed and gas subsidised.

Reducing the problem to nationalism is a blinkered diversion. Remember, every Dominican (like most people in the US) is descended from immigrants of one sort or another.

The environmental effect of human behaviour, for whatever reason, whether it be poverty, ignorance or arrogance, is a human problem. In all cases, education as well as alternatives are key.
 

rellosk

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Chirimoya said:
Dominicans are doing a good enough job of turning their beautiful country into hell on earth, whether by choking the cities with polluting vehicles and plantas, overusing natural resources such as water, polluting rivers and seas and using mountains of disposables of all sorts without a second thought.

Not to downplay the problem of deforestation, but it is not a Haitian problem as much as a problem of poverty. Give a poor person an alternative and they will not cut down trees for charcoal. Poor Dominicans used to do it before gas stoves were distributed and gas subsidised.

Reducing the problem to nationalism is a blinkered diversion. Remember, every Dominican (like most people in the US) is descended from immigrants of one sort or another.

The environmental effect of human behaviour, for whatever reason, whether it be poverty, ignorance or arrogance, is a human problem. In all cases, education as well as alternatives are key.
Well said!
 

Ricardo900

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Mr_DR said:
It is not the same because you are talking about Canada here as the only territory, and you are still canadian whether you were born in Vancouver, Toronto or Quebec. Here we are talking about people that are not even dominican but do penetrate our borders as well as destroying every forests they come into contact with.

Just remember that Haiti was once as beautiful and green just as much as the DR is. Unfortunately earth can only take so much abuse to an extent before it turns completely dry as if it was a curse, unwilling to yield the essence that gives a country life.
I personally think that all Haitians should be picked out of Haiti, transferred into Canada and the US and just turn Haiti in to a Glass Park.
Hey, Don't send him over here in the good ole US of A, we have a serious Border Problem ourselves, there are armed civilian groups patrolling the border by Mexico all day and night. Here's one of em
http://www.minutemanproject.com/
 

Gabriela

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Dominican culture?

rellosk said:
Well said!

I agree that the Haitian problem is economic, not cultural. Dominican culture already has been devastated by international global Americanism. Go to the DR and drink rum and COCA COLA. Eat at Pizza Hut. Drive a big American car. Go to a show where beautiful Dominican women strip to American popular music, and lip sync their vocals. Wear blue jeans. Gap for babies. Watch American movies and television. Move to Nuevo York or Jersey. Eventually, the Haitians won't even want to go there. Or the tourists.
 

FuegoAzul21

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Part of the solution is acknowledging that there is a problem . To all of those who try thier hardest to shy away from blaming Haiti and beleive Dominicans are responsible for their own problem ,yes dumb Dominicans exist (in the 100,000s maybe a few million) , but its naive to think that Haitis's problems dont affect us .I ve said in so many posts on how the dr is not the U.S so one cannot use the U.S anti immigration as an example,due to it being an entirely different situation.It is common knowledge that Haitians are flooding DR and are bringing thier self destructive habits with them , "DR does not need this !!!!!!",these so called anti-haitian Domincans are not racists but people who see a bigger picture ,a realistic picture.People who are concerned for their country and its future.The people who most defend Haitians are always forieigners or Dominicans from abroad who do not know first hand the effects of this invasion .If it was their country whose economy,environment,culture,soverienty,and pride were in danger by a neighboring group who they have a turbulent history with.Thier liberal,inconsiderate,passive attitudes towards these situaitons would change in a blink of an eye .Only then will they understand how concerned Dominicans feel about this issue .These individuals are also the ones who note all the bad things certian Dominicans are responsible for ,but always forget or just dont beleive that pride having ,good hearted,concerned,law abiding,educated,Dominicans exist .I have the honor in saying that they exist and its not just one or two, its alot .Enough to hopefully make a differance.This is a serious issue that will not fix itself by having Dr take it in the rear(a$$) and God willing the Good Dominicans will defeat these ills that are contaminating the country .
 

Ricardo900

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Just curious

Are there any stats on how many illegal Haitians are entering and staying in the DR a year??
Does the DR have any type of free gov't social program ie. welfare/social security??
How are the illegal Haitians being taxed?? ie. sales, income-tax
What is the government solution to the illegal Haitian problem, i.e. walls, border-patrols, fines for hiring or harboring??
 

Chirimoya

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It's all been said before...

There's no denying that it's a problem. The DR is also a poor country that has enough problems providing for its own. The question is where exactly to place the blame.

It was pointed out very early on in the thread that the DR army are as much part of the problem because they do not police the border effectively - on the contrary, they profit from allowing illegals in.

If Dominicans were so concerned about the Haitian influx they would stop giving them jobs. Then there would be less incentive for them to come here. It's called market forces.

Even posters not known for their sympathy for Haitians have said in recent debates that the answer lies in helping Haiti recover and develop. Not that it's the DR's responsibility to do so, but certainly it is in both the DR and Haiti's interest to lobby for this in international fora.