Rep Dom Now Part of Axis of Evil?!?!

I agree with most of what Morales Troncoso said, apart from the bit about working only to benefit the nation. Shurely shome mishtake?

the Dominican government worked only to benefit the nation, regardless of leftwing or rightwing tendencies.

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And this Reich chappie either has his islands with palm trees mixed up or is one of those people who thinks anything to the left of Ghengis is communist.

That has to had been somebody's attempt at satire. That guy is 15 years late on the news, somebody buy him a subscription to a newspaper.

How about dismantling China? Gotta see him try that before China corrupts the US. :nervous:


And if we're going to be part of an axis it's gotta be called the Axis of Rum. What with the three members in it...

Tordok said:

How credible is the US assertion that interamerican exchanges between Castro and Ch?vez include the DR?

IMO: The Bush boy invaded Iraq for oil, why can't the DR (or Cuba or whoever) get theirs in a friendly way from Venezuela for their own energy needs?
The US has huge trade relations with the Red Chinese, but Chinese Americans don't have an Otto Reich. Recih spoke of an axis of subversion in Havana-Caracas. Is the US-China relation an axis of Greed? Or is it with the very democratic Saudis?

BTW Venezuela sent those choppers to put out the wildfires on the Cordillera Central. I think that if the DR goes the way of the chavistas or fidelistas, the country is doomed. But the DR should continue relations with Cuba and Venezuela. Hopefully Fidel won't be there much longer, but he's what they've got for the last 40+ yrs. and Leonel finally opened relations in his 1st administration.

- Tordok
:cross-eye

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While I don't believe that the fellow Reich who made the comments were correct I also don't believe that the US went into Iraq for the oil either since if the US took all the profits on the oil for the next 40 years it will still be a financially losing proposition.

I can understand why the US is opposed to Chavez and where the conclusions can be made that the DR is in bed with him for a few reasons but hardly a threat in my opinion.

Escott

In my most humble opine

I was flabbergasted when I read that bit in the paper yesterday.

Then I saw that Reich was talking to an "audience" of the Atlas Foundation.

Perhaps not quite Ghengis, Chiri but not far away.

This was the kind of talk from a long time ago, and Reich was only playing the "Oldies but Goodies"' from the 60's , 70's and 80's.... It was kinda pathetic, you know?

So Ch?vez is buddy buddy with Fidel. So what? Neither of them are major players in the world. Ch?vez sells oil to everyone, it's his only toy. The Venezuelan middle class has been effective destroyed, and it is only a matter of time before he is voted out of office. Populism is all well and good, but eventurally the boss has to produce.

I like the idea of an "Axis of Rum" since that makes more sense than what Reich was talking about.


HB

Escott said:

I also don't believe that the US went into Iraq for the oil either since if the US took all the profits on the oil for the next 40 years it will still be a financially losing proposition.
Escott

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I can't believe some people think the rest of the world is either blind or stupid like some dope smoking american teens. USA did go into iraq for oil but they didn't take the uprising into account. Now the uprising, resistance is labeled terrorism and USA is stuck there.
reason # 2 was to dismantle Iraq to make life easy for Israel.
Now escott, the whole world know this so please stop sugar coating the invasion. If USA really wants to liberate the world, then why not help Haiti, cuba and some poorest countries in Africa? Oh wait, they have no oil and they don't pose threat to Israel.
Now back to topic please. Hahahaha
AZB

As reported in DR1 a few days ago, former Asst. Secretary of State of Latin American Affairs Otto Reich, a Cuban-American darling of the Bush administration, mentioned the "leftist" government of the Dominican Republic in his speech about the growing "threat" of "Latin America's Terrible Two", i.e. Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro.

Que dijo el?

Well, this one had me scratching my head. But there may be more to the picture than meets the eye.

It seems that the Fernandez administration had the audacity to support the Chilean candidate for OAS executive secretary over the US backed, conservative, Mexican candidate. This was apparently a threatening act to the Bush administration - thus the labeling of the Fernandez administration as a "leftist" government. As history tells, to be a "leftist" government in Washington's backyard usually means that you're an "enemy to democracy". Once this becomes the case, then it becomes okay for the US government's official and unofficial "influencers" (the International Republican Institute, for starters) to come in and begin messing with you. And this especially so when the DR has historically been such a nice, tame, lambon nation. (I note that the last "populist" government in the DR sent troops to Iraq, thus it wasn't "left wing" in Washington's eyes but was sufficiently lambon).

Why the parnoia from Reich? It seems that Washington has become obsessed with the growing "new left" in Latin America. In fact, Reich's article in the National Review refers to it as the "Axis of Evil ... Western Hemisphere Version". It includes more than just those two rogue nations, though. In Washington's eyes, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay and now, perhaps, Ecuador have also fallen out of lambon status, meaning that it is okay to mess with them, especially if they cozy up too much to Chavez.

And the US is now very concerned about the next presidential election in Mexico and the prospects for the popular Mexico City mayor - meaning the unofficial US government money is probably already beginning to pour in to knock him down.

Why did Fernandez do it? How about cheap Venezuelan oil? Fernandez hasn't indicated any left wing ideology that I can detect, so I presume that's what it was all about. But there is definitely risk. Some commentators have noted the issuance by the US State Department of tourist travel advisories regarding Mexico (April 26 Travel Advisory) immediately after the Fox administration backed down on prosecuting the populist Mexico City mayor on minor charges (a preemptive coup?), who is also a strong contender for the Mexican presidency.

AZB said:

I can't believe some people think the rest of the world is either blind or stupid like some dope smoking american teens. USA did go into iraq for oil but they didn't take the uprising into account. Now the uprising, resistance is labeled terrorism and USA is stuck there.
reason # 2 was to dismantle Iraq to make life easy for Israel.
Now escott, the whole world know this so please stop sugar coating the invasion. If USA really wants to liberate the world, then why not help Haiti, cuba and some poorest countries in Africa? Oh wait, they have no oil and they don't pose threat to Israel.
Now back to topic please. Hahahaha
AZB

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Well, Bush recently said that the reason he went to war with Iraq was "to avoid having to fight the terrorist in our land" (ie. US).

So maybe, Oil was second or third place, fighting the terrorist in other people's property must be second, and getting revenge for Saddam attempting to kill his daddy is probably first in reasons for the invasion.

So, taking all of this into consideration, I would not want the US to "help" Haiti of all countries, if the "help" would end up like Iraq!

Heck, leave the holy wars out of this island.

BTW, these are holy wars, for an American president to refer to religion as often as he did makes people wonder what happened to division of church and state.

Decisions based on religion or attempting to justify a decision with religion is no good.

Let's see, inquisition, slavery, conquering expeditions are but a sampling of the things done through out history in the name of religion.

Now, back to the topic.

Mr. Reich needs a vacation, DR would be a good option for him.

I'm sure he will fly in an American airliner, vacation in a European owned resort, eat Dominican grown food, be entertained by Haitian immigrants doing silly dances on resort property, take a tour on a Japanese made bus, sit next to Euros and Americanos, play golf at an American design course, and take a trip to la capital and be inspired by the Spanish colonial buildings while being amazed at the heavy American influence found especially in the modern western and central sections of the capital city.

After all of that, the only "leftist" thing he will use and see is the samething he is currently turning into toxic fumes as he drove his car to and from that meeting. (ie. Venezuelan Petroleum).

Some people just need to leave politics to the real politicians.

I like Cubans, they are great people, fun to be around in, and a happy bunch. But, it's best if they keep their worry with Cuba and not attach other countries like DR to any of their anti-Castro agendas. In a world of North Korea having nuclear weapons, India and Pakistan threatning to bomb each other (sorry AZB), Saudi financing US and Terrorist at the same time, Syria feeding into Iraq's instability, and a Europe that is becoming increasingly anti-American with Italy (one of the largest supporters of the war in Iraq) removing its troops by the end of this year

In a world like that (and this is ignoring the uprising in Haiti, the wars in Africa, the increasing power of China, the civil war in Colombia which in any moment could easily spill over to other countries, and the global economic slump which has everybody a bit gittery) I don't think the DR poses much threat to itself, let alone the rest of the world.

We have never even attempted to invade any single country in the world ever. The closest thing was an invasion of Haiti under Juan Bosch, but it did not happened! So, what axis of evil is this?

As I said, Reich should take a vacation. Besides, Castro is going to die soon. He's in his 70s, falling all over the place, etc. Sooner or later the other side's calling will come upon him, so just relax for the time being!

:cross-eye

Nada.

To shed some light into all of this...

Reich's lies will be obvious to Bush Jr.

Remember, his father comes to play to Casa de Campo (2 visits in less than a year time period). Everytime he comes, he meets with Leonel and other high ranking peoples of government and the Dominican financial world.

As if that was not enough, Clinton and company has visited the DR multiple times, each time meeting with the people in power here while vacationing either at Casa or Punta Cana (those are their two most favorite places on this island).

On top of that, multiple world leaders (example would be King Carlos and Queen Sofia of Spain. These two, whenever they need to travel to this hemisphere for whatever reason and to whatever country, prior to returning to Spain they have a tendency to make a quick stop on this beloved island. According to them "they love it here") constantly drop by and meet with Dominican high ranking peoples either intentionally or while on vacation. The lies of Reich about the DR are so obvious and will be nothing more than a humiliation for him, if he continues with this outdated rhetoric.

Nal0whs said:

Reich's lies will be obvious to Bush Jr.

Remember, his father comes to play to Casa de Campo (2 visits in less than a year time period). Everytime he comes, he meets with Leonel and other high ranking peoples of government and the Dominican financial world.

As if that was not enough, Clinton and company has visited the DR multiple times, each time meeting with the people in power here while vacationing either at Casa or Punta Cana (those are their two most favorite places on this island).

On top of that, multiple world leaders (example would be King Carlos and Queen Sofia of Spain. These two, whenever they need to travel to this hemisphere for whatever reason and to whatever country, prior to returning to Spain they have a tendency to make a quick stop on this beloved island. According to them "they love it here") constantly drop by and meet with Dominican high ranking peoples either intentionally or while on vacation. The lies of Reich about the DR are so obvious and will be nothing more than a humiliation for him, if he continues with this outdated rhetoric.

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I was thinking the same thing. My old man told me about the King of Spain and his hunting expeditions with a group of Dominicans several times a year in different sites around the world........

This is such a misguided thing.. I agree with HB.. oldies talking it up to oldies - The asses of evil!

Here's a quip from Reich's National Review article:

"...[T]he legacy of freedom and democracy Reagan fought for ? is being threatened, and so is U.S. national security ... In recent years, left-of-center leaders have come to power in Chile, Brazil, Ecuador, Argentina, Bolivia, the Dominican Republic, and Uruguay ... Should we worry about these leftists? In general, yes ...

Many countries in the region are intimidated by ... Ch?vez?s brazen use of oil as blackmail, as in the oil-starved and defenseless Caribbean island-nations ... but they will have to overcome these fears lest their countries pay a severe price. "

Well, it's good to know finally where the Bush administration really stands on international affairs. Or maybe I was happier not knowing how reactionary they really are. Wasn't it this same logic - if it's at all left of center, it's evil - that led to the last US invasion of the Dominican Republic? And, using that same logic, shouldn't Spain, France and Germany be admitted (in Germany's case, readmitted) to the Axis also?

According to El Diario Libre, the Chilean foreign minister is the first non-US backed candidate for secretary general of the OAS in 57 years to win the post. No wonder Otto Reich and Condee Rice are calling Fernandez and the rest of Latin America nasty names like "leftist".

Braver than me

Tordok said:

I have no idea how Reich knowingly could mention the DR's government as Left wing when I am sure he knows that its foreign minister, Carlos Morales Troncoso is uniquely linked to the very Castro-leaning Central Romana. Oops, CR is owned by the Fanjul family, the same that owned a sugar empire in pre-Castro Cuba, and now owns it in both the DR and the US. Reich is a right wing idiot, and the scary part is that the Republicans have given him positions of power within their state dept. and green light to fuel this kind of paranoid disocurse as if it would help peoples of the Americas to feel more comfortable with their oversimplistic and intrusive positions.

- Tordok

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Are you nuts? Do you know how many people have been killed for only thinking the Fanjul family is up to no good?

Chuckuindy

Bueeeeno

These comments by Reich albeit silly do reflect a general sense of loss of American clout in the region vis a vis Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, and Chile. Not DR. Yes there are Leftists and leftists. The only two Leftists in LA are Castro and Chavez with caveat. Everyone else is a leftist. The way China is communist but wants to be regarded as a market economy to gain better protection against anti dumping laws.

Anyway, the emergence of govts in LA with like minded ideologies in the past says nothing of were these govts are today.

Tordok said:

http://www.listindiario.com.do/cuerpos/republica/rep1.htm

For the non-Spanish readers: essentially he "clarifies" that he did not mean to equate the center-left governments of places like the DR, Brazil, Argentina or Chile with the outright Leftist Venezuela and despotic Cuba.

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What completely softball questions. The US government is excellent at planting news stories. I remember one planted in the Miami Herald about US troops coming to the DR that purported to show a Dominican army captain handing out pesos to poor Haitian children on the border.

How about these questions instead:

What exactly makes the DR government center-left?

Was the administration of Hipolito Mejia, which sent troops to Iraq, also a center left government?

Does the defeat for the first time in 57 years of the US-backed candidate for OAS secretary general indicate a decline in US influence in the region?

Two years ago, Venezuela cut off oil to the DR in a diplomatic row, but the US was able to arrange temporary replacement oil at preferential prices from the government of Mexico. If a center-left government takes over in Mexico next year, as is currently widely predicted, and refuses such an arrangment, would the US help "oil-starved and defenseless Caribbean island-nations" - your words, sir - directly with similarly discounted oil were a similar row to occur again?

You wrote that countries like the DR would have to "pay a severe price" if they give into oil blackmail from Chavez' Venezuela. What exactly might that "severe price" be?