Baseball and steroids in Latin America

My friend TORDOC is not here but he should be

Let me tell you all something.

The fact that the Latin American ballplayers are saying they "didn't know enough English" is pure bullschitt!! Major league baseball pays a doctor to visit the Dominican-based training facilities (there are 31 training facilities here) twice a year to speak on steroids and other drugs. The Baltimore Orioles have in-house medical personnel to do the same thing and so does every other major league organization.

This is just a cop out: "I didn't know."

HB

I read this article this morning - very good and I look forward to the coming series.

Hillbilly I do agree with some of what you are saying, however, I think there are many many Dominicans that are not in an actual MB league or sponsored league in the DR who are getting the "education" you are referring to and who are very likely take some of the stuff the article mentioned and have no idea of the harmful effects. The majority of Dominicans who get involved in this kind of stuff are from the lowest classes of Dominican life and are hoping for the "big break" to a better life via baseball and will do anything for it. I, for one, do not doubt that the language barrier plays a huge factor in the majority of these players not knowing what they are really taking or the effects it will have, they are just desperate for a better life - not to mention we are talking about vastly undereducated people! These poor Dominicans idolize the likes of Pedro Martinez and Sammy Sosa and unfortunately are not told about the deep dark secrets about the drugs they are told to take to pump up their changes of getting off the island. I have had the opportunity to go to some pharmacies in the DR and was amazed at how deregulated they are and that you can get virtually anything (other than narcotics). Also, the fact that many of these young Dominicans are resorting to using supplements intended for veterinary use should tell you how desperate they are - they only buy that stuff because it's cheaper than the better supplements intended for humans.

Hillbilly said:

Let me tell you all something.

The fact that the Latin American ballplayers are saying they "didn't know enough English" is pure bullschitt!! Major league baseball pays a doctor to visit the Dominican-based training facilities (there are 31 training facilities here) twice a year to speak on steroids and other drugs. The Baltimore Orioles have in-house medical personnel to do the same thing and so does every other major league organization.

This is just a cop out: "I didn't know."

HB

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Ok!

Fiesta Mama said:

Hillbilly I do agree with some of what you are saying, however, I think there are many many Dominicans that are not in an actual MB league or sponsored league in the DR who are getting the "education" you are referring to and who are very likely take some of the stuff the article mentioned and have no idea of the harmful effects. The majority of Dominicans who get involved in this kind of stuff are from the lowest classes of Dominican life and are hoping for the "big break" to a better life via baseball and will do anything for it. I, for one, do not doubt that the language barrier plays a huge factor in the majority of these players not knowing what they are really taking or the effects it will have, they are just desperate for a better life - not to mention we are talking about vastly undereducated people! These poor Dominicans idolize the likes of Pedro Martinez and Sammy Sosa and unfortunately are not told about the deep dark secrets about the drugs they are told to take to pump up their changes of getting off the island. I have had the opportunity to go to some pharmacies in the DR and was amazed at how deregulated they are and that you can get virtually anything (other than narcotics). Also, the fact that many of these young Dominicans are resorting to using supplements intended for veterinary use should tell you how desperate they are - they only buy that stuff because it's cheaper than the better supplements intended for humans.

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You have a good point about the "education" of these "poor people". But I must admit that people do not need to be educated in order to know when not to take something. There's no way that anybody can tell me that some of these "poor" people have not read a newspaper or have heard somewhere of what's going on now with all this steroids stuff.

True, educating is needed but when you are of age, you know what's right and what's wrong. That they want to play the "ignorant" game, well, that's the easy way out. Being poor is not an excuse not to do the right thing.

When I came here in 1974, I was 11 years old and by reading the newspapers and listening/watching to the tv, I knew of all types all drugs and the damage that they would do to your body. Keep in mind that I never heard of any type of drugs while I lived in the DR.

It just happens that many of these drugs(steroids) can only be afforded by people with means. When I played College Ball, the biggest steroids users were "hijos de papa y mama"(rich kids). They were the only ones that could afford it. Even then I had the means to buy/use them but I never did because I knew that eventually I would pay the price in the future. I knew right from wrong.

How many times do we see poor and unaducated people doing the right thing and so many rich and educated people doing the opposite.

Yes Miguel I see your point. That's true that in my experience here in Canada, a lot of people that I see doing drugs/steroids, etc. are those that can afford it and are certainly not undereducated. I have not met many poor Dominicans, however, that regularly read the paper and venture a guess that many don't read at all (meaning they can't).

However, one part of the point I was trying to make (although I may not have gotten that across) is that the kids that are taking the animal supplments instead of the real steroids are likely the pooer, more desperate part of the population who will do anything for a chance at fame and to get off the island. They can't afford the real thing. That is the part that I find most unfortunate, the desperation to turn to something that not only has serious consequences but isin't even intended for humans.

Sorry, Fiesta Mama, but you are almost dead wrong

The chances of some "poor, un-educated Dominican baseball player" making it into professional ball at any level are about a gazillion to one, these days.

Any kid that wants to make it will go to the hundreds of try-outs that are held in every village, field, town and city in the DR all year round. IF he looks like he has some potential, he is then signed and sent to one of the nearly three dozen camps run by organized baseball or "scouting combines" that ae looking for that next Aramis, Sammy, Vlad or Pedro...And nowadays, nobody is signed and sent to the Rookie Leagues in the states like they did twenty or thirty years ago, with no English and no warnings...

I repeat, nobody from the DR gets into pro baseball without going through these camps. And all of the camps teach English, social customs, professional baseball rules and regulations ad nausium.

As my friend from the Baltimore Orioles just told me this week, "Bullschitt! The he!! they didn't know. They knew alright, because I told them...!!!"

There are no excuses, sorry. The story that "I'm just a poor little Dominican trying to get ahead in life...bla,bla,bla" is very pass?, and I'm sick and tired of hearing about it. It is just not true.


HB

In addition to baseball skills, the 'academies' do provide education about many relevant topics. Then all of that is repeated over and over throughout their careers in the U.S. during spring training, and with outreach clubhouse visits to major and minor league teams during the season by well-trained, bilingual professionals. These include:
- English language skills (in some cases remedial Spanish);
- how to develop cordial, balanced relationship with the sports media;
- education against spousal abuse/violence;
- basic introduction to the American legal system, including strong warnings against underage drinking and sexual encounters with minors;
- general cultural adjustment tips and support;
- dietary changes appropriate for athletes as well as general nutritional facts and advice on supplements;
- warnings against fraudulent documentation to appear younger or against scams to illegally obtain US visas for others;
- detailed medical and legal warnings against chewing tobacco (prohibited in the minors), illegal drugs, and of course steroids, human growth hormone, stimulants and whole bunch of other harmful stuff;
- advice about buscones and their often unscrupulous tactics to take financial advantage from these young men;
- preventive mental health (e.g. recognizing signs or symptoms of depression or anxiety)

Each club may do it a bit differently, and some in a more comprehensive/effective way than others, but at the end of the day both the individual clubs and the league will have provided enough warnings (in writing and in person) to all signed players for them not to have to use "ignorance of the rules" as an excuse. The proverbial 'buck' has to stop somewhere, and responsibility for what's inside of your body ultimately rests with the given individual.

The new focus, as explained in the Canadian article offered by the OP, is to find ways to screen players BEFORE they are signed. Some of the cost and legal issues are legitimate as presented by MLB officials, but nonetheless it will always be a catch-up game, as new technologies and scams will allow cheaters to be a few steps ahead of those of us trying to do something to stop them.
- Tordok

Claro que si!!!!

Tordok said:

In addition to baseball skills, the 'academies' do provide education about many relevant topics. Then all of that is repeated over and over throughout their careers in the U.S. during spring training, and with outreach clubhouse visits to major and minor league teams during the season by well-trained, bilingual professionals. These include:
- English language skills (in some cases remedial Spanish);
- how to develop cordial, balanced relationship with the sports media;
- education against spousal abuse/violence;
- basic introduction to the American legal system, including strong warnings against underage drinking and sexual encounters with minors;
- general cultural adjustment tips and support;
- dietary changes appropriate for athletes as well as general nutritional facts and advice on supplements;
- warnings against fraudulent documentation to appear younger or against scams to illegally obtain US visas for others;
- detailed medical and legal warnings against chewing tobacco (prohibited in the minors), illegal drugs, and of course steroids, human growth hormone, stimulants and whole bunch of other harmful stuff;
- advice about buscones and their often unscrupulous tactics to take financial advantage from these young men;
- preventive mental health (e.g. recognizing signs or symptoms of depression or anxiety)

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100% correctomundo!!!!!!

I can still hear my College Manager, Mr Allen, 23 years later, telling all us of EVERY SINGLE DAY: "stay clean, do well, have discipline, respect everybody and if someones offers you anything, TALK TO ME ABOUT IT!!!!!!. Even with all the advices, there were a whole bunch of "cheaters" on my team. Some paid the price and others went on to become Major League Players. 3 are still associated with the Majors.

Me: too fricking small for a second baseman. Hitting singles and doubles does not cut it sometimes, even if your defense is great.

Are there any steroids out there to make a person grow?. See, I needed that, hehe. Even if there was/is I would not had used it since I am not a cheater.

If only people knew how tough is, NOW, to play in the Majors. All the "educating" that these people have to go thru. Just read the papers and you will see how many minor league players are being suspended for steroids use. Amazing. And it will get much worse before it gets better.

Hillbilly...

Did you read the article? I have absolutely no knowledge of the baseball world in the DR. I was only commenting from what I had read in the article posted by the original poster - the paper copy. I do know people that have taken supplements in the DR and didn't really know the effects of same... they were just trying to bulk up and that is where I draw my conclusions that some people do not know what they are taking, nor the long term effects... that I do truly believe. My comments came directly from the article and I suppose the writer does not really know the truth of the DR baseball life either because he most certainly did not outline the background in his article that you seem to have. The article told a story of desperate people. You live there and obviously know more about what you are talking about than some reporter who goes for a few weeks and then writes an article back in the first world - that is the problem with these types of things and I suppose those reading the articles who don't know any better, or who don't read others' opions on forums such as this that may know more, will form their own opinion.

Baseball and steriods go hand in hand these days. Very few players do not take steriods that are on the major leagues. The problem is that money covers anything.

really good article about this in the lates espn mag

Gov't supports riods in D.R. player will use them!!

let me tell you something a friend of mine was a scout for a MLB organization down there and he told me that scouting and the pressures of getting a prospect signed down there leads to many things, he told me that scouting is a cutt throat business out there and being humble as he was he had to leave the business, because of stuff he saw, and did not want to be a part of, you see somebody mention something about being educated to know what you put in your body, and that is half true!.........BUT, if you have someone encouraging you to take this to compete with those American and Venevuelan boys they will think that steriods is the norm, and they will take it, you don't have to be big to take steriod's it's used for recovery, maximum energy and stamina for grulling schedules and sleeplessness, and of course the obvious more strength. Dominican propects that I have seen personally in the island have told me that using the roids is like selling drugs! you got to know when and how, and how much... they say they have absolutely nothing to lose, they want to be Rich..period, I mean think for a second baseball is age discriminating, and time is of the essence - kids are thinking use what you can when you can.. and that is sad. as mush as I hate to mention the word Government, Mr manfred who is the legal advisor for MLB saids the Dominican Gov't does not issue any punishnment for steriod abuse nor can MLB issue punishments for violators, thus that gives a person plenty of time to experiment with these drugs, I'm a baseball instructor myself and all I can say it's a confusing time for us as well..

The Dominican Goverment doesnt give a heek of what happens to the players individually because all they want is for the trainers to say that Dominican players are good. If you die on the way the Dominican Gover,met doesnt really care.