Haiti Richer Than Dr

Mr_DR

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Haiti Richer Than DR

Haiti was not formally recognized as an independent nation but by about 1825 and the only reason why King Charles X recognized their independence was because frankly speaking, they bought their independence for 60 million dollars from France which money today would've made Haiti today one of the richest country in the world. By far much richer than DR.

The British recognized Haiti's independence in 1833 and the Americans would not go for having a free slave sister republic in the Americas. Hell, it took Charles Summer, a Representative of Massachusetts in 1863 to put a very convincing argument why they should recognize Haiti as the second freed sister republic and black nation.

We Dominicans have never been people of revolts and did not ever try to take advantage of Haiti even when they were most vulnerable.

The things that hurts me the most is that after all the benefits that Haiti provided to the international communities, specially Latin America and the US, they are the first ones to betray them and turn their back on them specially after knowing that if there is a Simon Bolivar to read about in history today as well as their own freedom; it is much owed to Haiti.

Much of the deterioration and the lack of striving motivation of Haiti as a prosperous nation today comes from the attribution of the US Invasion and occupation which lasted well over 19 years in 1915 which president Wilson later on admitted that the sole purpose of that occupation was to take over Haiti's economic system beginning with the control of gold reserve, Haitian customs and the control of Haitian National Bank etc.

Until 1915 Haiti was a country even envied by the US which manouvered the perfect plan to take much of what Haiti had, Americans were also the first ones to wipe Haiti out of most of its forests by stealing their majestic trees to feed their thirst for such wood as well as clearing and taking the farming lands that poor Haitian families used for eating, to plant large plantation of tobacco, banana and sugar.

During the US occupancy Haitians were treated no differently than when they were slaves by the french and were forced to hard labor. And since these haitians no longer had their little farms thanx to the Americans, suffered hunger and malnourishments which led to tha massive exodus of Haitians into the caribbean coutries, Cuba and the Dominican Republic.

The US succeeded on its purpose to make sure that no black nation would prosper and did only pack up and left only after their job was completely done, 19 years later in 1934 which consisted of making sure that Haiti was no threat in any ways by empoverishing them, keeping the black nation down therefore depriving them from self pride and autodetermination.

If the US, France and all the Latin American countries that Haiti helped fund their freedoms and volunteered its soldiers were grateful, they would be more interested in helping Haiti instead of turning their backs on them.
 
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Mirador

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...If the US, France and all the Latin American countries that Haiti helped fund their freedoms and volunteered its soldiers were grateful, they would be more interested in helping Haiti instead of turning their backs on them.

I'm also stumped. How do you help a junky hobo living in a box car on Skid Row train? What would he do with a new suit and a wallet full of money?, and when we return a month later, what's he done with his life? Haiti is beyond repair, it's an indigent country, a nation no more, without viable and working institutions. What shall we do. Colonialism? it's proven wrong. a Trust? who's going to run it?, the U.N.?, remember the food-for-oil program...
 

paddy

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been looking at this thread..and one thing comes to mind. over the years that i've been traveling to the various islands in the carribean...i've heard from other tourists..that they would never travel to the dominican republic because of its close proximity to haiti...my first exposure to the dr was a trip to punta cana..and as the saying goes.."you never get a second chance to make a good first impression"..i was truly impressed by the beaches and the people..and continueto explore the dr. if the beaches in the dr are that beautiful..i can only imagine what they are like in haiti..
 

Pana

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Haiti has nobody to blame but their self even though the US and France has had a big hand in keeping them down. Haiti has had corrupted leaders since it was born as a nation in 1804 I admire Haiti alot for the struggles they went through to become the 1st independant colored nation in the Westren Hemisphere but it doesnt help them running around like savages on T.V shooting and killing each other like they are not civilized(keep in mind I am a person of color saying this not a Dominican I am Panamanian) and when people see this around the world what do they think about Haiti. I think it was the best thing for the Island to be divided because the DR would be just that way to if it was united as one whats done is done already the only thing now is to make the Island a better place for both nations and it starts with the governments to do this luckily DR has tourism or ele it would be in a bad state down there.
 

Pana

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paddy said:
been looking at this thread..and one thing comes to mind. over the years that i've been traveling to the various islands in the carribean...i've heard from other tourists..that they would never travel to the dominican republic because of its close proximity to haiti...my first exposure to the dr was a trip to punta cana..and as the saying goes.."you never get a second chance to make a good first impression"..i was truly impressed by the beaches and the people..and continueto explore the dr. if the beaches in the dr are that beautiful..i can only imagine what they are like in haiti..
I have thougt the same to about if the DR beahes are beautiful what about Haiti to but you will never catch me going there with all there problems, what is ironic now is that back in the 1960's Haiti was the #1 spot for vacation in the Caribbean only if the people realized if they got together and cleaned up the place and started acting civilized they would have jobs with tourism and have a little money in their pockets and not be the poorest country in the Western Hemishere.
 

paddy

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the dr is not far behind haiti....corruption..to many hands in the cookie jar...plague this beautiful island and keep the people down..no education is their weapon of choice.
 

NALs

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Mirador said:
I'm also stumped. How do you help a junky hobo living in a box car on Skid Row train? What would he do with a new suit and a wallet full of money?, and when we return a month later, what's he done with his life? Haiti is beyond repair, it's an indigent country, a nation no more, without viable and working institutions. What shall we do. Colonialism? it's proven wrong. a Trust? who's going to run it?, the U.N.?, remember the food-for-oil program...
Well now, let's not be too pessimistic!

Haiti's problems, yes, they are paramount! No question about that, but solutions they do have.

The question is who will bring the solutions to them. Hint: if Haitian government continues to not care about its people not even one bit, they can't possibly expect anybody else to help them.

This is similar to some of my employees, to whom I offer complete payment of their childrens education out of good will from me (and to keep the employees in a good mood, afterall good mood equals more productivity!). However, I will and have backed out from such thing once I realized that a particular child is not interested in learning.

I can only help a person as long that they help themselves as well. The samething applies to Haiti and the rest of the world, which could probably explain why the rest of the world ignores Haiti. With a government that simply whines and demands other country to take care of their people while they indulge in every penny available in that country is just not going to attract any aid or help of any kind.

The US stopped helping Haiti a long time ago (they send 0 dollars as aid to that country) and with good reason, given the millions that the US has spent on Haiti since the early 1900s!

To further make my case, if you want to borrow money to start a business, you must first show the potential investors of your desire to help yourself in making that business a reality, let it be by having a very good business plan or a good concept, etc. Investors don't put faith in people who don't have faith in themselves.

Same applies to countries.
 

NALs

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paddy said:
the dr is not far behind haiti....corruption..to many hands in the cookie jar...plague this beautiful island and keep the people down..no education is their weapon of choice.
This is not true at all.

Haiti only has 5 other African countries and Afghanistan as being less developed and poorer than Haiti in the entire world.

Contrast to the Dominican Republic which is wealthier than 67 countries around the world, including India and China which is home to 2 billion of the world's 6 billion people!

The Survival/Self-Expression Dimensions which are closely related to the level of happiness a society tends to be puts the Dominican Republic in 0.3 when the Latin American average is 0.15. Thus, Dominicans tend to be happier than the average Latin American (and this is clearly visible when people travel between DR and other Latin countries to the level of happiness which does tend to be higher in the DR than in most other latin countries).

The S/SE average score for Africa is only -.57, for South Asia its -.9, Catholic Europe only .2, and Orthodox Europe -1.5.

However, its interesting to note that Britain and its former colonies have an average S/SE score of 1.4 and Protestant Europe's average is of 1.7, making these contries among the most happiest countries on earth (happy in this sense means being satisfied with one's life, not necessarily having a smile on one's face every single day).

To be more direct towards the DR, the S/SE score of the DR is higher than Mexico's .2, Colombia's .2, Venezuela's .1, Brazil .0, Peru's -.4, or Chile's -.1 among others!

Argentina and Puerto Rico generally have happier people than the DR with .6 for both of those countries/colony.

However, Haiti's S/SE score is -1.3, even below Africa's average, who are among the world's least happiest people, but Orthodox Europe and Baltic Europe (which is mostly composed of ex-communist countries) are the least happiest of all.

It's important to note that research have shown that the S/SE score is actually independent of wealth. In other words, wealth does not create higher S/SE scores, rather higher S/SE scores creates more wealth.

This probably has to do with being more optimist towards life and thus, being willing to take more chances including starting businesses, etc.

This data comes from Ronal Inglehart and Wayne E. Baker's "Modernization, Cultural Change, and the Persistance of traditional Values" book based on statistical data collected from the countries presented in the book.

There are plenty of other statistical evidence of the DR's much further advancement compared to a huge chunck of humanity, because those 67 countries of the world that are poorer than the DR contain a combined 67% of the world's population (the number in countries and the percentage number both being 67 is just coincidence, btw).
 

paddy

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very well said..but since these two countries are joined at the hip..what's the answer??
 

NALs

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paddy said:
very well said..but since these two countries are joined at the hip..what's the answer??
Well, from the part of Dominicans, we can only do so much.

The bulk of the things to be done to help Haiti has to come out of the Haitians themselves and we and the rest of the world can only help them, but relative to how much they are helping themselves.

The Haitian government has done very very little, thus, can't expect foreigners to pick up the difference, when in the end, they did not needed any help to dig their hole.

This, btw, pertains to all societies, not just Haiti.

Also, keep in mind that just because we are ahead of 67% of humanity here, does not mean we have to jeopardize our well being to help the Haitians solve a problem we had nothing to do with. We have done more than most other countries have done to Haiti, including giving Haiti some breathing space by accepting 1 million Haitians to enter our country, albeit most illegally.

In the time the interim government has been in place, the most active thing they have done was close the border! That is not a progressive act for Haiti and does leaves Dominican-Haitian relations with a bit of salt in the mouth.

Compare to what has occured in the DR in the same time period with a complete redirection of the economy back to growth, a halt in inflation, better optimism and more confidence in the government. Leonel has done more for the DR, than the Haitian government is doing for their people when in fact, the ideal situation would be for Haiti to be working harder for its people than the DR, that way they can catch up to the DR rather than drag it down or asking for the DR to help them when they themselves are not doing much.

Again, we can only help a little bit, but the Haitians have to take the initiative.

When the most rapid, influential, and most progressive act a government has commited in a timeperiod of over one year is closing the border when your own citizens are being returned home, that is not progress at all.

Agree?
 

Quisqueya

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Mr DR

thanks for this post which is giving people another perspective of the TRUE reason why Haiti has not lift itself up from her boot straps. It wasn't in USA interest to have a another independent country in the hemisphere especially a black and mulatto country in the middle of North and South America. At that time the new Republic wanted to free all blacks and mulattos in the Americas which was a big HELL No for the USA which was making a killing off the black slaves in the cotton fields in the South. You really think they wanted to let their slaves know their was heaven on Earth. A place were they could be considered human and not 1/5 of a man. Besides, those ni88ers had the nerves to take some of our slaves and gave them refuge in Samana, Spanish Haiti. Then those ni88ers have the nerve to give that Mulatto Simon Bolivar shelter, soldiers and ammunition to kick those Spaniards arse and form La Gran Colombia... Hey Bubba those ni88ers have a nice island and they can read, write, and even have better taste in clothing then we do.. Those ni88ers even study abroad love sleeping with white women and our women our hooked even their women look at us as uncivilized and we have to pay to sleep with their nice mulattas...You know what Bubba we betta put an end to this before our ni88ers might revolt like Nat Turner did and find out about this and start taking yolas trying to reach this Negro and Mulatto Paradise...


Ok, lets stop fighting with our big brothers(Brits) and come with an accord with the French, Spaniards, Dutch, Portuguese and show all those negros and mulattos across the globe the consequences of becoming independent. Lets make an example out of that Island Hispaniola...Lets occupy them and take their resources like rubber and nice trees, and lets slaughter their creole pigs and import our snotty pigs which needs alot of maintenance and bring their economy to the ground. Oh dont forget to take away the lands from those peasants and prevent them from producing rice..damn, they eat rice with everything..**** we can make alot of many if we flood our nasty arse rice and sell it cheaper than their rice...Lets divide them even more by giving those damn educated mulattos thinking that their french senoirity over those blue black ones that still haven't adjusted to the european style of living. Damn, Bubba those ni88ers like to play "football" like the europeans. Damn, Bubba I thought football was what we played and kicking the ball with your foot was 'soccer'. Damn, those ni88ers wont even play baseball the best american game. Hey Bubba, we should occupy the other side too and have them hate their cousins. Bubba, these mulattos and negros are easier to tame than those mulattos and negros in Haiti. They, too, have inferior complexes and have european customs and they still are bitter about the bad decision they made when they let those militant ni88ers on the other side take over. You know what Bubba lets divide them even more and have them fight about the border which is moved every other day. Lets come up with the Treaty of Ryswick and give those spanish speaking ni88ers more land than those french speaking ni88ers. Damn, there girls are sure good in bed and they aren't snotty like those french wanna be mulatta haitians. Bubba, did you pay to sleep with any dominican...yeah I did..What!!!! All you have to do is tell them your taking them home with you and you get all the p#@@y you want...Damn, do I have to teach you everything..No, I thought they were like those haitians who could careless about the USA and rather go to France with Pierre..Damn, Pierre sure knows how to handle those haitians..Idiot, they speak the same language and have some what french customs.. Anyway, Eugenio loves to play baseball our american game and doesn't seem to care about us being on their island too much. Besides, those dominicans are not experience with war like those haitians that helped us in Savannah, GA..Did you see how those haitians kicked those Brits arse while we were running for cover..They are stronger and well educated unlike our ni88ers... Well, better keep those ni88ers starving and fighting with each other b4 they turn on us..True indeed Bubba...Waiter..pasarmay unEh CayrvERsa Poor Favoor....
 

Quisqueya

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ronaldobklyn said:
Haiti has nobody to blame but their self even though the US and France has had a big hand in keeping them down. Haiti has had corrupted leaders since it was born as a nation in 1804 I admire Haiti alot for the struggles they went through to become the 1st independant colored nation in the Westren Hemisphere but it doesnt help them running around like savages on T.V shooting and killing each other like they are not civilized(keep in mind I am a person of color saying this not a Dominican I am Panamanian) and when people see this around the world what do they think about Haiti. I think it was the best thing for the Island to be divided because the DR would be just that way to if it was united as one whats done is done already the only thing now is to make the Island a better place for both nations and it starts with the governments to do this luckily DR has tourism or ele it would be in a bad state down there.


Yes, I agree to some extent we are to blame because the Haitian gov't always playing the wrong cards. Do you know the only reason why Aristide got oust was because he started a campaign for france to repay the money the Haitian gov't paid in order to be recognized as an independent country... He must've been smoking that stuff Quirino was supplying...oops..Let me hush up about that. B4 my ears is found in a Sancocho..

Haitians are not savages the media only show you only when some riot is occurring in haiti...Its like Brooklyn for example..if you watch CBS you would never step foot in that area. Its called propaganda..Like the same reason why "Newsweek" got in trouble for telling the truth...and are now apologizing for telling the truth....how come we didnt hear an apology about not finding weapons of mass destruction..open your eyes "compay"

At one time as someone mentioned Haiti was like DR in the tourist industry..Gringos were coming in Boat loads getting a taste of history and some good "black berry". But unfortunately, our arrogance messed that up and now DR is making a killing.. At one time Dominicans were coming to haiti looking for work and sending mony back to DR because the 'gourde' was stronger than the peso, during those time it was 1 to 1 with the US dollar...

My friend what you see now is a gov't out for self and trying to survive when they should be worrying about the nation...Do you know the new business in Haiti now is dealing drugs..Haiti have so many colombians living there setting up shop..There was a colombian who wanted to rebuild the whole city of Jacmel (my original place of birth) if the gov't let him do his business without interference but Aristide said no...My friend you dont know the half of what's going on down there...the MINUSTAH are not helping too much until one their boys started getting caps fired at them. Now, they want to do something... Some casque bleu from Pakistan just got caught running a prostitute ring in Gonaive and selling arms... Dude, Lula, in his heart,I think, wants to do something for his neighbor but he isn't getting any aide from the UN.

Are the haitian gov't to blame...Claro que si...they are just silly rabbits following the carrot stick where ever it goes without looking at the consequences down the road.
 
Apr 26, 2002
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That Haiti had a glorious history cannot be denied. That it contributed greatly in influence, shelter, man and material to the independence of the South American countries is indeed not as well known as it should be. But I believe this glory had long faded by 1915, and I don't think the US considered Haiti any differently than the other countries in the hemisphere that it abused and exploited during the same period.

But enough of how Haiti was destroyed by the US and France. Let's assume it's true. Hell, let's assume it continues to be the case. The question remains: How to fix Haiti? It clearly can't be governed from Port-au-Prince. Cantonization may the answer.

Recently, as Bosnia, Somalia and Iraq were falling apart at the seams due for internal and external reasons, parts of these countries were able to prosper by maintaining a certain amount of automony. Bosnia had Bihac, Iraq had Kurdistan and Somalia has Somaliland and Puntaland. Might I suggest that Haiti be broken up into autonomous governing units based on economic and cultural spheres. This autonomy need not be complete. The palace in Port-au-Prince could still be head of state and handle foreign relations. But each canton, say Cap Haitien or Jacmel, could handle its own policing and economic affairs. This would at least create some functioning areas of the country and put pressure on the governments of areas that weren't functioning to keep up.
 

Quisqueya

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
That Haiti had a glorious history cannot be denied. That it contributed greatly in influence, shelter, man and material to the independence of the South American countries is indeed not as well known as it should be. But I believe this glory had long faded by 1915, and I don't think the US considered Haiti any differently than the other countries in the hemisphere that it abused and exploited during the same period.

But enough of how Haiti was destroyed by the US and France. Let's assume it's true. Hell, let's assume it continues to be the case. The question remains: How to fix Haiti? It clearly can't be governed from Port-au-Prince. Cantonization may the answer.

Recently, as Bosnia, Somalia and Iraq were falling apart at the seams due for internal and external reasons, parts of these countries were able to prosper by maintaining a certain amount of automony. Bosnia had Bihac, Iraq had Kurdistan and Somalia has Somaliland and Puntaland. Might I suggest that Haiti be broken up into autonomous governing units based on economic and cultural spheres. This autonomy need not be complete. The palace in Port-au-Prince could still be head of state and handle foreign relations. But each canton, say Cap Haitien or Jacmel, could handle its own policing and economic affairs. This would at least create some functioning areas of the country and put pressure on the governments of areas that weren't functioning to keep up.



Good point.. And this already the case. Jacmel and some parts of Au Cap barely effected by the turmoil in P-au-P....
 
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There is no way in life that Haiti can be richer than the Dominican Republic. Not because I am Dominicans but I believe that Domincans have closed the doors to the haitians. The haitains wanted all the land up to Santiago and we pushed them back up to Dajabon. So its kind of uor fault too.
 

Mr_DR

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Quisqueya said:
Yes, I agree to some extent we are to blame because the Haitian gov't always playing the wrong cards. Do you know the only reason why Aristide got oust was because he started a campaign for france to repay the money the Haitian gov't paid in order to be recognized as an independent country... He must've been smoking that stuff Quirino was supplying...oops..Let me hush up about that. B4 my ears is found in a Sancocho..

Haitians are not savages the media only show you only when some riot is occurring in haiti...Its like Brooklyn for example..if you watch CBS you would never step foot in that area. Its called propaganda..Like the same reason why "Newsweek" got in trouble for telling the truth...and are now apologizing for telling the truth....how come we didnt hear an apology about not finding weapons of mass destruction..open your eyes "compay"

At one time as someone mentioned Haiti was like DR in the tourist industry..Gringos were coming in Boat loads getting a taste of history and some good "black berry". But unfortunately, our arrogance messed that up and now DR is making a killing.. At one time Dominicans were coming to haiti looking for work and sending mony back to DR because the 'gourde' was stronger than the peso, during those time it was 1 to 1 with the US dollar...

My friend what you see now is a gov't out for self and trying to survive when they should be worrying about the nation...Do you know the new business in Haiti now is dealing drugs..Haiti have so many colombians living there setting up shop..There was a colombian who wanted to rebuild the whole city of Jacmel (my original place of birth) if the gov't let him do his business without interference but Aristide said no...My friend you dont know the half of what's going on down there...the MINUSTAH are not helping too much until one their boys started getting caps fired at them. Now, they want to do something... Some casque bleu from Pakistan just got caught running a prostitute ring in Gonaive and selling arms... Dude, Lula, in his heart,I think, wants to do something for his neighbor but he isn't getting any aide from the UN.

Are the haitian gov't to blame...Claro que si...they are just silly rabbits following the carrot stick where ever it goes without looking at the consequences down the road.
Hey Quisqueya,
What most of them won't even want to understand is the facts that not too long ago Haiti was much more prosperous than the US and that Haitian constribution to the world has been way under rated and betrayed by Latin Amererica and the US....Latin America would still be under Spanish rule and there would be no US today if it would've not been because of Haiti.

The little aid packages and the none existance Latin America help tha Haiti gets is garbish to all the priceless things that Haiti did for them.
But they just rather sit back and think that they are doing enough by just sitting at a round table to acuse the DR as not doing enough when in deed the DR has always brought up the Haiti subject at the beginning of any round tables meetings and does what ever they can, including the encouragement of some of the tourism businesses to pump some money into there economy VIA tourists tour to Haiti.

A prosperous Haiti would be a win win situation for both sides and DR and Haiti would be able to pull it through if these darn Yankees stop sticking their big nose where it doesn't belong.

Haiti would have been rulling this American continent today instead of the Americans which is something that the American suceeded very well at stoping.

So Ronaldo, don't' tell me that what is happening in Haiti is it's own fault because the true salvages were the americans that were even by far less educated, but masterminded the plan that they continue to use today by disposnig people off their land....They really did went and did what they do best and that was raping Haiti's land out of their natural resources, to include deforestation and worst of all "Haitian pride and determination to continue making a better Haiti".

Like Quisqueya said, They suceeded at keeping the black country down even though today's US would've been MEXICO, Britain And France.
 
Apr 26, 2002
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Mr_DR said:
Hey Quisqueya,
...there would be no US today if it would've not been because of Haiti.
...Haiti would have been rulling this American continent today instead of the Americans which is something that the American suceeded very well at stoping... the true salvages were the americans that were even by far less educated, but masterminded the plan that they continue to use today by disposnig people off their land....They really did went and did what they do best and that was raping Haiti's land out of their natural resources, to include deforestation and worst of all "Haitian pride and determination to continue making a better Haiti"..
And I would have been the wealthiest man on the planet if only the King's army hadn't conscripted my great, great grandfather. Death to those bastards!

And they say Dominicans don't accept responsibility!

I find so much of this amusing from both the Dominican and Haitian side: The UN's super secret plan to unite the DR and Haiti under Haitian rule (credit for this one to our own Nals); The deforestation of Haiti caused by American corporations instead of by overpopulation and use of charcoal; that Haiti would rule the hemisphere were it not for the conspiracies against it (that's a new one to me).

By the way, Apdomini, did you know that Hinche was originally a Spanish town? Care to join me in the crusade to take it back from the heathens?

I am most amused by how Mr_DR doesn't even pretend to be interested in indigenous solutions to Haiti's problems. He actually throws in the towel, saying that Haiti is forever doomed due to the white devils.
 

Quisqueya

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Porfio_Rubirosa said:
And I would have been the wealthiest man on the planet if only the King's army hadn't conscripted my great, great grandfather. Death to those bastards!

And they say Dominicans don't accept responsibility!

I find so much of this amusing from both the Dominican and Haitian side: The UN's super secret plan to unite the DR and Haiti under Haitian rule (credit for this one to our own Nals); The deforestation of Haiti caused by American corporations instead of by overpopulation and use of charcoal; that Haiti would rule the hemisphere were it not for the conspiracies against it (that's a new one to me).

By the way, Apdomini, did you know that Hinche was originally a Spanish
town? Care to join me in the crusade to take it back from the heathens?

I am most amused by how Mr_DR doesn't even pretend to be interested in indigenous solutions to Haiti's problems. He actually throws in the towel, saying that Haiti is forever doomed due to the white devils.


Porforio_R


Yes, this is indeed very amusing to spectators that are not Haitian nor dominican. I'm not aware of any secret plan from the UN to unite hispaniola but who would've thought their would be a E.U. ..Believe I am not promoting unity because I respect the other side and acknowledge their sovergeinty. To be honest neither Haitians nor dominicans can stop globalization....

And damn the white man...you guys started this mess...that's why haiti is in this perdicament and dominicans have inferior complex..damn u devils...LOL..

Ok, on a serious note...hating a white person or blaming them for the past is ridiculous but I do think every person that has been oppressed should be compensated..through education and opportunity...afterwards ur arse are on ur own...now this can be white, red, black and taino, and so on...**** if the jews can cry me river and get compensated I'm sure we can get the same...BTW, I would like half of southern haiti and DR to myself...heheheh...take care.....

But really imagine if the all the super powers had to pay for their atrocities to mankind..Africa would be the richest continent...and USA, France, Germany..would be broke and considered 6th world......aint never gonna happen and if it does someone is definitely going to push that little red button...WWIII...
 

Squat

Tropical geek in Las Terrenas
Jan 1, 2002
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good thread !!!

Well, As much as I think factors cited by Quiskeya and MR.DR are true for Haiti's bad start (I was really rolling in the floor laughing, while reading the post with "Bubba"...), I clearly see everytime I go there that nowadays, Haiti's biggest obstacle to progress are Haitians themself...
So yes, Us and France bear a strong responsability, but today auto-destruction is homemade.
By the way, the whole theory about uniting the island is pure bullshit, and I am totally amazed to hear most educated dominicans strongly believe in that myth...
There should be an autoritarian regime with forced reforestation, and strong education. It shall be lead by non-haitians, as it is the only way to lesser a little bit the huge corruption.
I can only think of Japan and Germany, ruined after WW2, but of course, how can I dare to compare such different cultures ?