"Y menos con ese..."

Mr.Mark · Jun 7, 2005

Hi people,

Okay, I know that the purpose of this Forum is to present doubts about the proper usage of Spanish language and to clarify and explain about these doubts, but I have a question regarding how to translate something from Spanish to English. I'm Dominican and my mother tongue is Spanish.

The thing is the following. How do you say "y menos con tal cosa que...". Let me try to give you an example. A girl added me to her MSN contacts and I asked her who she was and all that, when she told me who she was, she also excused herself for adding me without a previous notification (saying that she hoped I didn't mind her doing that). Of course, I accepted her apology (I was not mad at all) and it occured to me to make a comment about her nickname (which I found very appealing and sexy). I thought in Spanish "No, no me molesta que me hayas agregado. Mucho menos con ese nickname que tienes". How should I translate that? Like this: "And even with less reason because of that nickname of yours"

Thank you in advance for your help ppl

mkohn · Jun 7, 2005

"No, no me molesta que me hayas agregado. Mucho menos con ese nickname que tienes"

It doesn't bother me that you've added me. Especially with a nickname like yours.

mkohn

stewart · Jun 7, 2005

I would translate that " and much less with that nickname you have".

Mr.Mark · Jun 7, 2005

stewart said:
I would translate that " and much less with that nickname you have".

I think that's the most proper translation. Thanks, Stewart.

xamaicano · Jun 7, 2005

Mr.Mark said:
I think that's the most proper translation. Thanks, Stewart.

A literal word for word translation would work in English but Mkohn version would probably be more common.

Bugsey34 · Jun 7, 2005

I don't think the literal translation works in English, no one would really understand "and much less...", that's very odd sounding. Much less than what?

MKohn's "especially" is correct.

Mr.Mark · Jun 7, 2005

xamaicano said:
A literal word for word translation would work in English but Mkohn version would probably be more common.

I don't agree with you this time. For me, "much less" is more suitable in this situation than "especially with" because what I want to stress is the very low degree of displeasure (or the how confortable I feel) after she added me without letting me know before because I really found her nickname appealing.

"Especially" fits better in a positive (in the sense of affirming something and not in the sense that it's "good", of course) statement such as this: "I'm sure God has a special destiny for Caleb --especially with that name!" Remember the context of my phrase: It doesn't bother me that you've added me, and much less with that nickname of yours.

I'm not saying mkohn suggestion is incorrect -in fact I thank him for helping me-. What I consider is that stewart's translation is more semantically close to the original phrase in Spanish.

xamaicano · Jun 7, 2005

Bugsey34 said:
I don't think the literal translation works in English, no one would really understand "and much less...", that's very odd sounding. Much less than what?

MKohn's "especially" is correct.

The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

much less

CONJUNCTION: And certainly not: ?Happiness is an emotion not often spoken of at the magazine, much less experienced? (Brendan Gill).

It doesn't bother me that you've added me, much less with that nickname of yours.

It doesn't bother me that you've added me, and certainly not with that nickname of yours.

AnnaC · Jun 7, 2005

So what was so appealing and sexy about her nickname? :nervous:

You have to watch these people that hunt you down by the country you live in.

mkohn · Jun 7, 2005

I thought "especially" expressed a meaning that could be used in a positive or negative situation to get the message across. Especially since he used the word sexy ...
I'm with you, Anna. What nickname could be so sexy? In a negative way?
mkohn

Morena76 · Jun 7, 2005

Not necessarily...

xamaicano said:
A literal word for word translation would work in English but Mkohn version would probably be more common.

I'm 50/50 on this one. I'm a native English speaker and I say "much less" all the time. A lot of people use that expression. However, people are very casual online and so I might not be as formal when speaking to someone I didn't know. But either way, he would definitely get his point across. Doesn't really matter.

Chirimoya · Jun 7, 2005

I think mkohn's translation is correct, and less likely to be misinterpreted.

Mr.Mark · Jun 8, 2005

mkohn said:
I thought "especially" expressed a meaning that could be used in a positive or negative situation to get the message across. Especially since he used the word sexy ...
I'm with you, Anna. What nickname could be so sexy? In a negative way?
mkohn

I think I didn't express myself well enough to get my point across. It's not that her nickname was sexy in a negative way. The thing is that as you can recall, I started my reasoning with this first element: "It doesn't bother me that you've added me...". Notice that I used a negation (perhaps I should've said negation in the first place and not "negative phrase"). That's the reason why I think using "certainly not" and "much less" are more proper than "especially", which I would use in a phrase like this one: "I'm sure God has a special destiny for Caleb --especially with that name!". Notice that I started with an affirmation there, not like in the sexy nickname example.

About the sexy nickname, Anna.... let's not make a fuss about it. I didn't even mention it because it's no great thing. Thanks for your help.

Bugsey34 · Jun 8, 2005

xamaicano said:
The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

much less

CONJUNCTION: And certainly not: ?Happiness is an emotion not often spoken of at the magazine, much less experienced? (Brendan Gill).

It doesn't bother me that you've added me, much less with that nickname of yours.

It doesn't bother me that you've added me, and certainly not with that nickname of yours.

Of course "much less" is a common expression in English.

However, I still think in this case it makes no sense. If you have a sentence and then use the conjunction "much less", it relates back to the original sentence, obviously. You are stating something in the second phrase is "much less" than something you would do, say, have, etc. in the first phrase. I.e., "I don't even want to look at him, much less date him." "He wouldn't even talk to me, much less take me out for dinner," etc. etc.

In this case, her nickname has zero relation to his original statement that it doesn't bother him that she added him to her buddy list or whatever. Much less than what? He's already stating that he's not bothered by it, so how can you be less than "not bothered" something? You can then be pleased about it, but that's not what he's trying to express.

Your second example using "certainly not", however does make sense I guess, but I still think that "especially" really expresses what he's trying to say, despite the fact that he doesn't recognize that. In all honesty, it should be "I'm not bothered by it at all, especially with that cute nickname you have". The adjective modifies the noun so that you can understand what he's trying to say.

ESOLteacher · Jun 8, 2005

One Small Vote For ESPECIALLY

One Small Vote For ESPECIALLY.

To the man who asked (the poster), I read your choice of translations. Your use of especially makes sense, but it is not the whole picture. In common usage, we would use ESPECIALLY in this sense.

NO to "much less"
To use "much less" would be a bit stuffy - definitely too formal for messaging.

"and certainly not" could work as well, but "especially" is used much more often.

Over and out..........

xamaicano · Jun 8, 2005

Bugsey34 said:
Your second example using "certainly not", however does make sense I guess, but I still think that "especially" really expresses what he's trying to say, despite the fact that he doesn't recognize that. In all honesty, it should be "I'm not bothered by it at all, especially with that cute nickname you have". The adjective modifies the noun so that you can understand what he's trying to say.

Not to belabor the point but "much less" in this case is used idiomatically to mean "certainly not" which is what the original spanish phase was conveying. This is why I said a translation of the original spanish would get his point across. As I said before, "especially" would be more commonly use to get point across but "much less" works.

stewart · Jun 8, 2005

You all are killing me. You are arguing over whether a phrase said in Spanish. makes sense in English. The expression "much ;eess etc" is commonly used in English in this context and makes perfect sense. I stand by my suggested translation and emphatically assert that if you disaggree with me, your Spanish isn't very good.

Chirimoya · Jun 8, 2005

A literal translation does not always make sense idiomatically. That why you often have to find a different way of saying the same thing.

stewart · Jun 8, 2005

Chirimoya said:
A literal translation does not always make sense idiomatically. That why you often have to find a different way of saying the same thing.

Exactly. You always translate the idea. Not the words. Sometimes there is a direct6 translation. Sometimes there isn't.

ricktoronto · Jun 8, 2005

it would get rid of all ambiguity with a positive way of saying it vs. negatively formed, e.g. .........especially because you have (or use) such a sexy nickname

"Y menos con ese..."

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