Don't bite my head off!

Isis said:

So, I wonder, has any of you ever thought of taking that (relocation of sugarcane field) route?

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I'm in favor of your idea. Since the DR seems uninterested in doing anything "value added" to its sugarcane production (and the Fanjuls will make sure that US policy never makes it pay to do so), it may as well go away.

Please have your Haitian government appoint a blue ribbon committee to study and implement this idea on an expedited basis. I presume that tax, duty, environmental, legal title, employment and other administrative and legal issues (including, of course, security issues) will be resolved on behalf of potential sugar investors with the speed and efficiency expeccted of a government as legitimate, well established and dedicated to the wellbeing of the Haitian people as that currently sitting in Port au Prince.

Please write back again when this is done. Thank you.

Even if they did care enough about the plight of Haitians to withdraw their custom from the DR, the US is no longer such a great consumer of cane sugar, now that corn syrup is the sweetener of choice. The sugar companies are mainly Dominican (private and state-owned) and their prime concern is to keep costs down, not the welfare of their workers.

There are many reasons that sugar cane cultivation takes place in the DR rather than in Haiti, not least because of the relative stability of the DR.

The underlying premise of your post is correct though. If Haitians had the option of making a living in their own country, as opposed to having to migrate and subject themselves to this kind of treatment, there would be far fewer problems all round. More jobs for Dominicans (although for higher wages), less pressure on the social services, all the things that the anti-Haitians are always ranting and raving about.

They conveniently forget that the absence of Haitian labour from the DR and the subsequent higher labour costs would mean increases in the cost of producing sugar, making it even less competitive in comparison to corn syrup; as well as in the cost of housing, domestic help, agricultural produce and so much more.

Chirimoya, well said!

Thanks, but Porfi's post summed it up better.

Isis said:

I have read, with great concerns, about some Dominicans and foreigners (mind boggling) worrying about too many Haitians in the Dominican Republic. Main reason they are there is to work in the sugarcane fields. Others have even stated that the sugar production does not hold the DR economy afloat. So, did anyone of you ever thought of petitioning to get these American businesses (connected to the production of sugars) to relocate. One suggestion, like to Haiti since, according to a lot of you here, most of the workers in the sugar can fields are from Haiti or of Haitian descent.

I think that would be much better than separating families and beating them up to force them to leave your country with only the clothes on their back. It would eliminate the fear of your people getting darker and Haitians, on the other hand, would stay in Haiti and work in the sugarcane field at home. I see it as a win win situation. So, I wonder, has any of you ever thought of taking that (relocation of sugarcane field) route?

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I posted something like this a while back and all i recieved were nasty posts and insulting remarks regarding my intelligence of the sugar industry. I beleive the Sugar industry in Haiti hasnt been revived is because of the current situation of its environment ,much of its farmland has become infertile due to deforestation,poor farming techniques ,and the like.I really beleive that should be one of Haiti's prime goals,to heal the environment and the land.Haiti would be in way better shape if they produced enough crops to sustain the entire population .Right now Haiti is described by many environmentalists as an ecological disaster.Its pretty ironic becuase not that long ago Haiti was considered an Agricultural powerhouse in the Caribbean.The UN can help with this iniciating reforestation plans like in DR,they can also educate Haitian Farmers and introduce them to better harvesting techniques.Many posters havent seen this thread yet so get ready for the head chewing to begin

Sugar has very little future as a cash crop. They'd be much better off reviving the coffee crop because although the price of coffee is not so hot either, coffee cultivation goes hand in hand with reforestation. The north and northeastern highlands in Haiti are the scene of a fairly successful coffee export programme, achieved with the help and advice of international agencies. The coffee farmers are not driving around in Mercedes, but they have enough of an income to keep them from migrating, grow basic crops for their own consumption, make some infrastructural improvements to their communities, educate their children, etc.

I realise from all these threads that people don't have the full picture about the complexities of Haiti's plight. It's easy to say 'help them grow crops to become self-sufficient' but do people realise what has happened to Haiti's staple crops as a result of dumping? Haitian farmers can no longer afford to grow rice and beans (yes, Haitians eat rice and beans just like Dominicans) because the market is flooded with cheaper imported rice. When you are as poor as most people are in Haiti you cannot make a patriotic choice and buy Haitian rice. That's free trade for you.

To keep this DR-related, this is a very real danger here too. Ask the chicken farmers - and the sugar companies for that matter.

Bienvenu(e) a DR1, Isis.

This is an interesting discussion but please note that topics here have to be DR-related.

Chirimoya said:

Sugar has very little future as a cash crop.

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Chiri,

Do you think that is the case even for ethenol production? There was an interesting piece in DR1 news today about the Brazilians wanting to produce an ethenol plant in the DR.

Also, can US sugar production really go on indefinitely. It only survives now because of protectionist and other government policies that prop-up US sugar producers. The fact is that US sugar production does nothing much for the US economy. Most of the labor is imported migrant. And the environmental impact hurts some of the most sensitive areas of the US. When and if reality ever comes to the market place, will DR sugar still be a poor cash crop?

Interestingly, I understand that, even were US sugar production to go away, the DR would not necessarily benefit. Sugar production costs in the DR are higher than in, say, the Phillipines.

Porfi, didn't you just confirm what I said? Sugar as a cash crop does not have a future in the short/medium term, considering the dominance of corn syrup, the US domestic farming subsidies, and in the long-term countries like the DR and Haiti will always be at a competitive disadvantage anyway.

If I have to choose a cash crop, coffee and cacao are the ones to go for, for environmental as well as economic reasons. Especially if you can get it certified organic and elbow your way in to that premium niche! (See also DR1 news today about the Polo coffee farmers).

I agree, though that the possibility of producing and using Ethanol provides an exciting ray of hope - if (and in countries like the DR it's such a big, fat IF) - it is managed in a way that benefits more than just a select few.

Isis said:

I have read, with great concerns, about some Dominicans and foreigners (mind boggling) worrying about too many Haitians in the Dominican Republic. Main reason they are there is to work in the sugarcane fields. Others have even stated that the sugar production does not hold the DR economy afloat. So, did anyone of you ever thought of petitioning to get these American businesses (connected to the production of sugars) to relocate. One suggestion, like to, Haiti since according to a lot of you here, most of the workers in the sugarcane fields are from Haiti or of Haitian descent.

I think that would be much better than separating families and beating them up to force them to leave your country with only the clothes on their back. It would eliminate the fear of your people getting darker and Haitians, on the other hand, would stay in Haiti and work in the sugarcane field at home. I see it as a win win situation. So, I wonder, has any of you ever thought of taking that (relocation of sugarcane field) route?

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Why is it that you would need to petition a company that is in another country to re-locate for you to be able to establish yourself in said industry?

Sounds like the typical old Haitian song and dance that Aristide used so well, put others down for your own gain. This will never work and Haiti should realize that by now.

Balaguer was right on about Aristide and look how the old preacher ended-up betraying the same people who re-instated him back in power, I guess Aristide's main business interests were getting out of hand, just ask Quirino.

It doesn't matter what you grow in Haiti, no company is going to relocate there because government goons extort money from businesses and because of other types of corruption.

A friend of mine delivered a ferry boat to Haiti and the new owner wanted to build bathrooms in an open sewer filled slum. As soon as he started construction the local politicians threatened him because he was 'taking their job' and 'making them look bad' so he had to stop. Perfect example why that country cannot progress.

Chirimoya said:

Porfi, didn't you just confirm what I said?

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In a way, I did. I guess I'm thinking medium to long term. Sugar could have a long term future if ethenol refining is developed or if both US sugar goes away and DR sugar production is modernized and made more productive. All big "ifs" and speculative at best.

In regard to coffee, those who haven't tried Baoruco (e.g. Polo) coffee are in for a real treat. This is not to be confused with Cafe Santo Domingo at all (though Cafe Santo Domingo is not bad). Baoruco coffee is "five star" coffee, competitive with Jamaica Blue Mountain and Kona in body and compexity. For years those mountainsides were semi-abandoned. Coffee grew wild - left over from when world coffee prices were high enough to justify greater production costs and the area had regular plantations. What little was cultivated was, though, wonderful.

I'm glad to see Baoruco coffee making a comeback.

Hi Isis,
I will not bite your head off, but let me tell you that it is not necessarily fear of getting darker, as you stated, that haunts Dominicans by the uncontrolled influx of Haitians into their labor market, it is fear of getting even poorer than they already are. Please notice that I said uncontrolled, since I actually do favor some degree of Haitian immigration, as long as it is a regulated process of clearly defined mutual benefits, that is implemented in a way that gurantees the human rights of laborers as well as the economic well-being of employers on either side of the 'frontera'.

However, Dominicans look west of the border and what do they see? Widespread destitution, anarchy and violence. If the same people who managed to destroy one country start to move in large groups to another country; the folks in the receiving country are not going to look at this with alacrity. Doesn't really matter what color they are, does it?

For all I care Haitians could be of scandinavian or eskimo stock, but the fact that Haitians happen to be Black is not why we don't wish them to continue to chaotically expand into DR territory. It remains primarily an economic problem and only derivatively a racial one. So please be careful with your choice of assumptions.

It is the fact they are exporting their poverty not their race that causes concern in the Dominican economy which is already quite poor in its own right without the "help" of Haitians.

- Tordok