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The Class System
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yvette said:
Social status is most important, that is what your name carries and it is honored.
Money counts too, but you can have high social status in the society without having money. Just having money and no social status is not the same.
Addition: Another thing considered is who you socialize with, and who your friends are...
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Class status is extremely important, nothing tops that, except maybe family.yvette said:
All other things (money, skin color, gender, even nationality) comes in second place.
The reasons are many (as usual), but we can be sure that its one of those European cultural traits that still is alive and well in this society.
For instance, among the upper classes many things revolve around the family and acquaintances rather than social clubs, though the latter is also used. However, friendship and family is from where business partners are created through a developing trust. Life among the upper classes tends to be conservative and very close, not too welcoming to outsiders though sometimes outsiders are accepted in the inner circle. There is a rift between old money and new money and also between rich from the Cibao and the rich from the capital.
This notion of class being more important than race exist in all areas that were once controlled by Spain and/or Portugal (maybe even France). This system is not just relevant to class vs. wealth or class vs. race, but also into the consideration of who is what. For instance, there are many documentations from colonial times that shows that many indigenous peoples who lived a hispanic lifestyle in the spanish cities were considered Spanish despite not having one drop of European blood. Thus, from the start it became a bit sketchy of who was of "pure" European blood and who was mixed. The same occured with mulattos later on as the colony replaced most Tainos with Africans. A mulatto who was very light, had good hair or straight hair, and lived a rather european lifestyle would have been considered white. This is still evident today in Dominican society.
Although I have moved slightly away from the topic, it actually links up to the class issue, because in the same manner that one's appearance and lifestyle defines what one is as oppose to bloodlines, the same manner class is more important than money or race in defining a person of culture as oppose to a regular person.
Having said all of this, there are instances when a person can have tons of money and have no class, thus no respect or suspicion from friends and acquaintances; and a person who have no money and have class, thus gain respect from others.
In fact, the single largest obstacle between new money rich mixing with old money rich is the lack of class that is evident among the new money. They think they can buy their way into the system, when in reality the money is only secondary in importance. Thus, they wonder why the Santo Domingo Country Club denies many newly riches of membership despite many of them being able to pay the dues.
Who you are is more important than what you are.
A very good post indeed... it should also be noted that this applies to every country in the world..
Class is more important and it is more difficult to obtain than money..
It is dependend on the schools, universities, sports, clubs and families you go to and associate with.. there you are formed in a way of life.. you are then slowly introduced into the class you naturally fit into..
Nals, do they also have coming out balls in the DR?
Class is more important and it is more difficult to obtain than money..
It is dependend on the schools, universities, sports, clubs and families you go to and associate with.. there you are formed in a way of life.. you are then slowly introduced into the class you naturally fit into..
Nals, do they also have coming out balls in the DR?
Nice explanation.
As someone living here in Puerto Plata we have a limited "high class". I can tell you that it is very tight knit and closed to most. As foreigners it is very closed to us. IT takes time and the right way of living to gain admission... if at all.
Carina is right. Here it is very much about how you live, who you associate with and how you behave!
Nal - I think you hit it correct with your post!
IT is very true here as in many other countries: Money does not buy you class!
As someone living here in Puerto Plata we have a limited "high class". I can tell you that it is very tight knit and closed to most. As foreigners it is very closed to us. IT takes time and the right way of living to gain admission... if at all.
Carina is right. Here it is very much about how you live, who you associate with and how you behave!
Nal - I think you hit it correct with your post!
IT is very true here as in many other countries: Money does not buy you class!
planner said:
I wouldn?t say "limited", there is a quite large group of high class here, not moneymakers as they are not high class anyway, but people with social status followed by high class because of their names and because of their
proven efforts and work now and in history, as well as old money.
This is the relatives of great people who formed the "modern" Puerto Plata,
like the Ginebra family, Bournigal family, Mears family, the family of Bubul,
Duarte and Luperon relatives, Roderick family... the list can be long.
It is families of culture or religious heritage, like the Nelson family, Castellano relatives..
It is people creating "modern history" today, like political leaders... Graciela Fermin for instance..
It is people in foundations, making a difference... Costa family is an example...
Go an evening to a classical piano concert in the culture house, or participate in the work of any of the foundations, you will see them and you will meet them.
These are not people in "business" or to be met at clubs in Playa Dorada.
You just bump in to them at other places, and those of them that I have had the pleasure to meet are intelligent, have good manners, extended knowledge about culture and history as well as today issues.
I have never felt I have been locked out of this group.
I think it is more, as anywhere else in the world, to get along with, or feel a belonging with, there needs to be mutual interests between people.
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But also Carina it is because of the way you behave that you have met and been included by some of these people. You do not associate with certain kinds of foreigners or locals. You act with dignity and that is responded to. Also I think that because of the work you do you have had a great deal of contact with this social group which is awesome...
Many others, I am surmising, have also gone to certain events and will never be included in these ranks. They will be treated with courtesy at all times but not included. A person of real class, will make anyone feel like they have been well treated, but may not include them in their social circle.
Many others, I am surmising, have also gone to certain events and will never be included in these ranks. They will be treated with courtesy at all times but not included. A person of real class, will make anyone feel like they have been well treated, but may not include them in their social circle.
planner said:
That is a good point. They may have "good manners" be educated and sinsitive enough to treat you with courtesy, but included in their circle would be another story.
It is easy for them to enter into your world but not the other way around.
Take a walk inside an animal or petting zoo and you will have the same feeling they have with commoners.
This is so true. I see some newly rich dominicans (who have accumulated their wealth by some questionable means in the streets of NYC) who try to act rich. They come to DR and instantly buy a convertable BMW or a top model mercedes with all options and after market accessories installed. These guys have money falling from their pockets. They go to expensive bars and discos and instantly order the most expensive bottle of whisky or wine. They usually are accompanied by a beautiful (fake blond) barrio girl who has a body to kill. These guy look dangerous and often have ugly scarred faces. You can see that these guys are stemming from some dangerous barrios (ghettos) in DR. It so happens, they have moved to NY and made a ton of money and now they are back to live the good life. They usually buy a Carwash or some other chopo business. They often open up restaurants and invest a ton of money. Some go broke after a short time and some keep the businesses as front. These guys do stupid things ex: I know one young guy who told everyone that he made his money as a minor league baseball player in USA. He was like 25 yrs old. He drove late model mercedes suv. He walked around in suit with 2 bodyguards in FBI type atire and microphones sticking out near their mouths. This guy walked around santiago as if he was John Gotti. He opened up a nice business in santiago which is probably too good for the area. His business has been dead since day one (I won't mention the name or type of business). I hear he went back to NYC and got busted for some shady deal and now he is serving 20 yrs prison term.Nal0whs said:
Guys like him are seen everywhere in santiago but Nal0whs is right, these guys are not accepted by the wealthy circle with old money and education. The drug dealers will always be drugdealers and will never be accepted by the educated elite class. These guys are seen hanging out in tribecca bar (if they want to be seen by rich folks) but they love to hang out in Andy's ranch, ambis disco and other questionable places where the chopos socialize.
AZB
planner said:
I agree with you Planner.
But as I wrote, I also think it is mutual.
Say, if a person is not interested in history, society, education, music, converstions on these subjects etc etc they would have no interest in being a part of these people, and these people would have no interest in them.
I personally think this functions here, as in the rest of the world.
Joe I like your analogy about walking into a zoo.... too funny and too true.
My experience here is that you will not be included in these circle until you "prove" yourself. Once done then you might be invited in.
AZB - you are talking about the wannabe's.... They are everywhere! As a generality they tend to be obnoxious and if it were not for low class, they would have no class at all!!!!
In my opinion many of these "upper class" types do nothing to deserve the reverence to which they are held. History, family and money (old or new) only go so far. In my opinion it does not give you the right to hold yourself out as better then anyone.
Those who behave with dignity, treat others with courtesy, give back to their communities and make a difference deserve respect! Those who sit back and trade on their family names, treat all others as low lifes and do nothing to help their community and country are not deserving of my respect!
My experience here is that you will not be included in these circle until you "prove" yourself. Once done then you might be invited in.
AZB - you are talking about the wannabe's.... They are everywhere! As a generality they tend to be obnoxious and if it were not for low class, they would have no class at all!!!!
In my opinion many of these "upper class" types do nothing to deserve the reverence to which they are held. History, family and money (old or new) only go so far. In my opinion it does not give you the right to hold yourself out as better then anyone.
Those who behave with dignity, treat others with courtesy, give back to their communities and make a difference deserve respect! Those who sit back and trade on their family names, treat all others as low lifes and do nothing to help their community and country are not deserving of my respect!
These kind of people you describe Planner, would not be considered high class or on a high level of social class anywhere in the world.
Not here, not there..as they are not carrying their name in the future with honor, they are not accepted as "high class" by anyone but themselves.
AZB said:
If I hear you correctly, you're saying, 'money does not equal class', because you can be a rich thug; or you can be a person of class, not necessarily because of your bank account, but because of the content of your character and social graces?
Yvette
Let not confuse class (the noun) with class (the adjective). The way it works in the US is one can be born into the upper class (noun) and will remain in that circle even if they have no class (adjective). Others can be born into the lower class, but because they make a ton of money, are well educated, and act with class, they generally will be accepted in the upper class.
I don't know if the same occurs in the DR. Does anyone in this class (as in classroom) know the answer?
Who says the English language is confusing?
I don't know if the same occurs in the DR. Does anyone in this class (as in classroom) know the answer?
Who says the English language is confusing?
yvette said:
This has nothing to do with it, if a person is born into the right family, according to the powers that be, that person still belongs to a certain class regardless of character. And in most countries, quite a few of the upper class families initial attained their riches by questionable means. Also, these notions of class that are so prevalent in certain countries contribute to the poor distribution of wealth and lack of socioeconomic mobility.
xamaicano said:
i.e. Paris Hilton, who is a trashy low class(adjective) individual who is part of the Upper Class of society by name alone. How unfortunate.
An individual or family is considered Upper-Class if their wealth is in the highest of their socio-economic class i.e. the scale is between the poorest person and the richest person of that country, if you're wealth is in the middle, than you are middle-class.
Upper-Class: i.e. The Hiltons, Bill Gates, etc..
Aristocrats & Nobles are people who came from an hereditary ruling family. i.e. Kings, Queens, Princes, Dukes, etc.. "Ye of Noble Birth" Now they are the ones who considers themselves superior to others.
A lot of wealthy people think they are blue-bloods, but they're not, they are just upper-class citizens in their own country. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg & Rick Hilton's families would become known in a couple generations as "old money" along with the duPonts, Rockefellers & Kennedys.
Opening an exclusive club so you and your rich friends can play in does not make you a blue-blood or better than any other rich person, you just made your millions first. If you are educated and carry yourself well, then you are classy in my book.
Upper-Class: i.e. The Hiltons, Bill Gates, etc..
Aristocrats & Nobles are people who came from an hereditary ruling family. i.e. Kings, Queens, Princes, Dukes, etc.. "Ye of Noble Birth" Now they are the ones who considers themselves superior to others.
A lot of wealthy people think they are blue-bloods, but they're not, they are just upper-class citizens in their own country. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg & Rick Hilton's families would become known in a couple generations as "old money" along with the duPonts, Rockefellers & Kennedys.
Opening an exclusive club so you and your rich friends can play in does not make you a blue-blood or better than any other rich person, you just made your millions first. If you are educated and carry yourself well, then you are classy in my book.
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