MLB All-Star Game or Dominicans All-Star game?

miguel

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Well boys and girls, as usual, the american "favorite" passtime will have a fairly great amount of dominican players in it.

The American League alone will have 5 (if you count Alex Rodriguez as dominican), count them, 5, dominicans that will START the game ( Rodriguez, Tejada, Guerrero, Ramirez and Ortiz). Also 3 or 4 reserves. Not bad at all!.

The National League will have no dominican starters, but will have about 7 reserves.

Not bad right?.
 
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irishdomician

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miguel said:
Well boys and girls, as usual, the american "favorite" passtime will have a fairly great amount of dominican players in it.

The American League alone will have 5 (if you count Alex Rodriguez as dominican), count them, 5, dominicans that will START the game ( Rodriguez, Tejada, Guerrero, Ramirez and Ortiz). Also 3 or 4 reserves. Not bad at all!.

The National League will have no dominican starters, but will have about 7 reserves.

Not bad right?.


right!
 

mondongo

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Jan 1, 2002
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Keep your eye on Albert Pujols. I just did a cursory check on the greatest players of all time: Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Musial, Williams, etc.

I compared Pujols' first 5 years to the first 5 years of the greats of the game. Except for Ted Williams, Pujols beats out everyone in almost every category: runs, RBI, avg, hits.

He is amazing, even better the ARod and Manny (although ARod is close, if you count his first 5 full seasons...you gotta remember he made it to the Big Leagues when he was only 18 as a part time player) .
 

miguel

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Truly amazing!!

mondongo said:
Keep your eye on Albert Pujols. I just did a cursory check on the greatest players of all time: Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Musial, Williams, etc.

I compared Pujols' first 5 years to the first 5 years of the greats of the game. Except for Ted Williams, Pujols beats out everyone in almost every category: runs, RBI, avg, hits.

He is amazing, even better the ARod and Manny (although ARod is close, if you count his first 5 full seasons...you gotta remember he made it to the Big Leagues when he was only 18 as a part time player) .

/QUOTE]He is a truly gifted athlete indeed. The only reason that he is not starting is because Lee is doing amazingly well.

But, lets just wait a few more years because in my opinion, and I am not a Ramirez fan, he is not as good as Ramirez. Ramirez has proven that he is steady and he has been good since the beginning of his career and has maintained it. Just my opinion. Also, Rodriguez has proven himself and, in my opinion, there's no better player than him right now. Guerrero is also amazing. Pujols has all the ingredients to be one of the best. If only if were not so darn serious and try to enjoy the game a little!.
 

mondongo

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I agree, Albert has to produce for more than just his first 5 years to be in the category of the Manny and ARod. BTW, I neglected to mention Vladamir. He's been putting up awesome #'s for 8 years in a row. If both Vlad and Albert keep it up for their whole careers, they will both go down as 2 of the top 20 or so players of all time. ARod and Manny not far behind.
 

easygoin

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He's a good ballplayer so far

Categorizing stat's, it's totally ridiculous, because of the era for which they all played. Babe Ruth was a great hitter, and also pitched for five years. Ted Williams hitting 400 in this time ,Could they have them stats as a hitter now, with consistent 90 to 95 fastballs and other pitch selections..... not a chance in hell, or anyone at that time.

Stats? ,hitting, fielding, size of the park, foul territory, artificial, natural, and other variables need to be looked at, that's why they have scouts.

Quality of players now are based on overall performance... not so years ago, where a shortstop can hit to 220 with a great glove and considered a quality ballplayer...Quality players in the eyes of fans, ownership, are based on production, You don't produce your gone. Manny Ramirez is a hitter.... that's all, quality ballplayer overall not at all, but his STICK is so good. Just give me all around ballplayers like Willie Randolph ;) ;) and lightning on the mound, with Thurman calling the shots. ;) ;) ;)

Dominicans have natural talent, especially when it comes to baseball,..... and I love it and respect them highly. But to put the kid in the light of rod or jeter that has to deal with 25 press people every day, and social life and still produce what they have over many years is incredible.


I wish him the best ;) ;) ;) ;)
 
May 12, 2005
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I definitely agree with easygoin. Comparing players of the 40's and 50's witn todays players is difficult. The difference in eras is hard to figure in. Just remember all those homers those guys like mantle, ruth, gerhig and aaron hit were in stadiums that were much larger then today. Also the guys that were major leaguerers were very very good because of less teams and much larger minor leagues. They went all the way down to D ball compared to only A ball today. Manny is great offensively, but were's the defense?? I'd say that Pujuols, A-Rod and Vlad are the only players today that would compare favorably with the greats of old. IMHO Ruth was and will always be the greatest player ever. Compare his numberrs to the players he was competin g against, heads above the rest. And lets not forget his pitching. Check out those numbers. Simply amazing. One more thing, Babe was so popular he made major baseball what it became. No successful major league baseball, then no NFL, NBA or other successful spectator sports leagues.

All that said, I'm looking forward to the world cup of baseball. The Dominican team should be awesome. I'd say they're slight favorites over the US team.
 

Tordok

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Oct 6, 2003
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if numbers alone don't tell the whole story, then we must

consider the career of Orioles SS Tejada.

I'm a biased O's fan (and they are greatly hurting right now), but even beyond that, I gotta tell you that in terms of overall on-the-field talent in both defense and offense, he additionally brings intangible contributions in clubhouse chemistry and ethusiasm for the game, so IMO, Miguel Tejada is up there with the best of the current crop of amazing elite Dominican ballplayers.

He is a decent young man with great respect for the game and its fans. No antics, no diva complex, just straight up gritty, yet fanciful baseball. Personality counts too, and he's got the right mix of attributes to keep his career on the up and up. Remember how this "little guy" beat everyone in the HR derby at last year's All-Star Weekend? He did it by sheer determination. He is a bona-fide AL MVP candidate so far this year and has been productive for several years. Please don't forget him.

- Tordok
 

BigCity27

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Miggy!

Tordok said:
consider the career of Orioles SS Tejada.

I'm a biased O's fan (and they are greatly hurting right now), but even beyond that, I gotta tell you that in terms of overall on-the-field talent in both defense and offense, he additionally brings intangible contributions in clubhouse chemistry and ethusiasm for the game, so IMO, Miguel Tejada is up there with the best of the current crop of amazing elite Dominican ballplayers.

He is a decent young man with great respect for the game and its fans. No antics, no diva complex, just straight up gritty, yet fanciful baseball. Personality counts too, and he's got the right mix of attributes to keep his career on the up and up. Remember how this "little guy" beat everyone in the HR derby at last year's All-Star Weekend? He did it by sheer determination. He is a bona-fide AL MVP candidate so far this year and has been productive for several years. Please don't forget him.

- Tordok
Not to mention that he drove in 150 runs last year, which is insane for a middle infielder. I agree, if you find another player that plays with the same amount of passion as Miggy, I'd like to see him play. Without argument, he is the best SS in MLB & he still plays for his home team in the Dominican Republic's Winter League.
 

miguel

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Si!

fko1 said:
Comparing players of the 40's and 50's witn todays players is difficult. The difference in eras is hard to figure in. Just remember all those homers those guys like mantle, ruth, gerhig and aaron hit were in stadiums that were much larger then today. Also the guys that were major leaguerers were very very good because of less teams and much larger minor leagues. They went all the way down to D ball compared to only A ball today. Manny is great offensively, but were's the defense?? I'd say that Pujuols, A-Rod and Vlad are the only players today that would compare favorably with the greats of old. IMHO Ruth was and will always be the greatest player ever. Compare his numberrs to the players he was competin g against, heads above the rest. And lets not forget his pitching. Check out those numbers. Simply amazing. One more thing, Babe was so popular he made major baseball what it became. No successful major league baseball, then no NFL, NBA or other successful spectator sports leagues.

All that said, I'm looking forward to the world cup of baseball. The Dominican team should be awesome. I'd say they're slight favorites over the US team.
You are absolutely right. Comparing players of yesteryears to payers of this era would be the same as comparing apples to oranges.

The way pitchers pitched back in the '40's and '50's, a steriod cheat like Giambi, Sosa, Bonds or McGwire would have, at least, 2,000 homers apiece.

Where would those "greats" of the '30's, '40's and '50's be if dominicans where able to play back then?.

The real baseball was played back then. Guys used to play for the love of the game. Now, most play for the love of the money. Go figure!.
 

DRPAWA

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Miguel, I have to disagree with you when you say, "The real baseball was played back then. Guys used to play for the love of the game. Now, most play for the love of the money...."

Back then they got paid too - and they got STAR treatment just like today. The only difference today is that the money is larger than the star treatment. You can't look at a guy like Tejada and tell me he does not love baseball or a guy like A-Rod (who I hear was the first one in the park even when he was clearly the best player on his team back when he was a kid).
 

miguel

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DRPAWA said:
Miguel, I have to disagree with you when you say, "The real baseball was played back then. Guys used to play for the love of the game. Now, most play for the love of the money...."

Back then they got paid too - and they got STAR treatment just like today. The only difference today is that the money is larger than the star treatment. You can't look at a guy like Tejada and tell me he does not love baseball or a guy like A-Rod (who I hear was the first one in the park even when he was clearly the best player on his team back when he was a kid).
Indeed, they got paid but it was more about baseball. Now (to SOME) it's about being better than anybody else so they can get more money and more endorsements.

Did I said that THEY ALL did not loved the game?. If I did, I am sorry since I meant to say SOME.

It's truly amazing that even without realizing it, you agree with me, somehow, when you said that Rodriguez "was the first one in the park....when he was a kid". The key word is KID.

How many times have you hear people say that some players are only worried about their stats and not what's best for their teams?. I can name you a few but I will only name one that, to me, was the best candidate to be nominated as the number one "Me, me, me and then me again" player. Care to know?. Our very own Jorge Bell. Man, if there was a village, that guy was the village idiot!.

Name me a few players fron the 30's, up to the 80's that were caught doing something bad and damaging to baseball?. Very few. Now, just in the last few years, we have had so many of these "baseball lovers" do nothing but tarnish it's reputation.

If I could go back in time, I would rather watch Sandy Koufax pitch a losing game than watch Roger Clemens or Jose Mesa pitch a perfect game.
 

easygoin

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Excuse me, but mesa.. give me a break.

miguel said:
Indeed, they got paid but it was more about baseball. Now (to SOME) it's about being better than anybody else so they can get more money and more endorsements.

Did I said that THEY ALL did not loved the game?. If I did, I am sorry since I meant to say SOME.

It's truly amazing that even without realizing it, you agree with me, somehow, when you said that Rodriguez "was the first one in the park....when he was a kid". The key word is KID.

How many times have you hear people say that some players are only worried about their stats and not what's best for their teams?. I can name you a few but I will only name one that, to me, was the best candidate to be nominated as the number one "Me, me, me and then me again" player. Care to know?. Our very own Jorge Bell. Man, if there was a village, that guy was the village idiot!.

Name me a few players fron the 30's, up to the 80's that were caught doing something bad and damaging to baseball?. Very few. Now, just in the last few years, we have had so many of these "baseball lovers" do nothing but tarnish it's reputation.

If I could go back in time, I would rather watch Sandy Koufax pitch a losing game than watch Roger Clemens or Jose Mesa pitch a perfect game.



Overall lifetime 4.27 and predominately a closer, Baltimore, Cleveland, Giants, Seattle, Phillies, Pirates. He has overall had great run support, for him to come in and shut the door.?4.27 E. R .A OVERALL in his career , and you are PROUD for talent you to talk about, means you do not know the game, but mostly quality players. I'm wrong please tell me.
 
May 12, 2005
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Once again I find myself in agreement with easygoin. A career 4.27 era for a closer?? Simply atrocious. How many blown saves is that? I doubt I can count that high. Oh, and by the way, isn't mesa a convicted rapist??
 

easygoin

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fko1 said:
Once again I find myself in agreement with easygoin. A career 4.27 era for a closer?? Simply atrocious. How many blown saves is that? I doubt I can count that high. Oh, and by the way, isn't mesa a convicted rapist??

The worst is to categorize (HIM) in the same league as the other two, Now that's a joke. Just stick to 101 Dr. Phil... they will listen?. :nervous:
 

miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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Listen!

fko1 said:
Once again I find myself in agreement with easygoin. A career 4.27 era for a closer?? Simply atrocious. How many blown saves is that? I doubt I can count that high. Oh, and by the way, isn't mesa a convicted rapist??
I was making an example when I wrote Mesa. I know that he is a "hotdog" and have not done great. Trust me, I know that there are hundred of other dominican pitchers that are better than him. Read my post again and "see" that what I am trying to do is say that I have no respect for him for being a showoff and a hotdog or for Clemens since I lost all respect for him for what he did, two times, to Piazza.

If someone says that he would rather watch a game where Sandy Koufax
loses the game rather than watch a game where Clemens or Mesa pitch a perfect game, doesn't that says that I have respect for Koufax and none for Clemens and Mesa?.
 

easygoin

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And don't worry, I'll clean it up for you

miguel said:
I was making an example when I wrote Mesa. I know that he is a "hotdog" and have not done great. Trust me, I know that there are hundred of other dominican pitchers that are better than him. Read my post again and "see" that what I am trying to do is say that I have no respect for him for being a showoff and a hotdog or for Clemens since I lost all respect for him for what he did, two times, to Piazza.

If someone says that he would rather watch a game where Sandy Koufax
loses the game rather than watch a game where Clemens or Mesa pitch a perfect game, doesn't that says that I have respect for Koufax and none for Clemens and Mesa?.


You did mean MESA, because he's Dominican, and you would never talk about Pedro,... because you are a Yankee fan, and I respect that. Overall Dominican Republic has not produced hundreds of of great arms, you can probably count on both hands, a matter of fact, and that was what your post was about. When you that a little HEAT you in turn tried to pull a rabbit out of THE HAT.... no no no no no no. Dominicans are great athletes, but overall not throwers.

Clemens throwing at people. Gibson made living on owning the inside of the plate, and Don Baylor may living on hugging the plate, that's part of the game, retaliation.

KOUFAX was a great pitcher, bottom-line, but in his time.


Greg Maddux warming up prior to the game throws 100 pitches on average, then takes the mound for a start, we're back then they may have grown 20.

Did Koufax have a 90s fastball with pinpoint control and throw complete games, against the athletes of today.... NO, Greg Maddux has done that for years, and I'm not even a Greg Maddux fan,...BUTT I know talent.

Back in the day if you did not hit at least 320, you were not playing the field, did you know that. So what was it, good pitching or good hitting?

I really think you need to learn the game before you post on the thread about baseball.
 

miguel

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See what I mean!

DRPAWA said:
Miguel, I have to disagree with you when you say, "The real baseball was played back then. Guys used to play for the love of the game. Now, most play for the love of the money...."

Back then they got paid too - and they got STAR treatment just like today. The only difference today is that the money is larger than the star treatment. You can't look at a guy like Tejada and tell me he does not love baseball or a guy like A-Rod (who I hear was the first one in the park even when he was clearly the best player on his team back when he was a kid).
One of the "things" that I meant about the love of the game was proven to me with the "Pedro Martinez scenario".

DO you remember when going to the All-Star Game was an honor?. Well, now we have all these cry-babies saying that their rest is more important than going to an All-Star Game. Even though he is not resting since he is hopping into a plane and going to the DR. Go figure. As Kellerman said: "he should at least go and make his presence known, represent his team. If he needed the rest, they could have him pitch one inning". So much for love of the game!.