Forgetting

Status
Not open for further replies.

xamaicano

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2004
1,011
26
48
What is difference between olvidar and ovlidarse? Also, could someone explain this structure? Se me olvidaron los boletos. Is this passive? As oppose to olvid? los boletos?
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
4,821
766
113
Xamaicano,

I am busy right now but as soon as I have a moment I will gladly explain it to you. You asked a very 'keen' question.

Later

LDG.


xamaicano said:
What is difference between olvidar and ovlidarse? Also, could someone explain this structure? Se me olvidaron los boletos. Is this passive? As oppose to olvid? los boletos?
 

Marianopolita

Former Spanish forum Mod 2010-2021
Dec 26, 2003
4,821
766
113
Olvidar vs Olvidarse

I don?t think you realized the complexity of your two-line question. That?s why a rushed answer would have been so inappropriate.

'Olvidar' is one of the many Spanish verbs that have a pronominal form. Those who have some knowledge of Spanish grammar believe and are taught that any verb that requires the pronoun ?se? or has a form with ?se? is reflexive. This is completely false and 'olvidarse' (and irse) are classic examples to support my statement. Instead of calling these forms ?reflexive? they are called ?pronominal? verbs and referred to as such in very advanced grammar references.

1) Olvidar (to forget) is a transitive verb meaning it takes a direct object. In your example ?olvid? los boletos? the direct object is ?los boletos? which answers the question ?what did you forget'.

2) Olvidarse (to forget) is a pronominal form of the verb ?olvidar? which changes the way the speaker wishes to convey what s/he is saying but without changing the semantic meaning. Using your example again to express the same phrase you can say: ?me olvid? de traer los boletos?. The pronominal form in this example is what is called 'el ?se? emotivo o personal'. This usage carries a much heavier weight on the part of speaker in comparison to first example also its usage requires the preposition ?de?. This pronominal form of ?olvidar? has no English equivalent.

3) Using ?se? as in ?se me olvidaron los boletos? is a construction used in Spanish primarily to express ?unplanned? events or occurrences equivalent to the English ?it slipped my mind?. However, the Spanish construction to a certain degree also carries the meaning of "whatever happened I had nothing to do with it". This construction is also used to emphasize more what happened to someone rather than what someone did. Therefore the indirect object pronouns are used to express who the action is affecting (me/ te /le /nos /os /les). The verb is singular or plural depending on what is being expressed.

Examples- se me cay? xxxx, se me extravi? xxx, se le perdi? xxx, se te qued? xxx, se nos olvid? xxx, se le rompi? xxx

Just like the verb ?gustar? a clarifying phrase can be added if there is uncertainty as to who the ?le' refers to. For example: a ?l se le perdi? xxxx

As I mentioned above many verbs in Spanish have a transitive and pronominal form, which clearly represents a change in meaning, or a change in way the speaker wishes to convey what is being said. Verbs that can be used as in #3 above are:

-ocurrirse
-romperse
-quedarse- be careful not to confuse this usage with ?me qued? en casa' vs. 'se me qued? el libro en casa'.
-caerse
-perderse

My suggestion is to try to put together a few phrases using the ?se me xxx? construction. I will review them for you.

-------------

LDG.
 

fortywater

New member
May 4, 2005
35
0
0
exactly

That was a great explaination, you really clarified the difference.

I always think that when someone says "se me cayo" that they mean "it fell from me" rather than "I dropped it", which is exactly what Lesley was saying about taking ownership of the event.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.