Haitian Occupation(1822-1844) and rapes

asopao said:

I've only seen one reference on rapes by Haitians in one book about DR written in English by a non-Dominican. Don't remember book's name. It says " Dominican historians descrbe the Haitian Occupation as a brutal nightmare; dominated by illiterate soldiers,many who were former slaves. They charge that Haitians were commiting atrocities, like frequent rapes, which contributed to the darkening of the country"

Moya Pons wrote that " very few Haitian civilians moved towards " Department D'Ozama", It was mostly Haitian soldiers there, and they didn't get along with the Dominican population. Jean-Pierre Boyer wanted everybody to be " a Haitian", but the ethnic Haitinas still referred to the inhabitants of the Easter side as " Spaniards".

Haitian historian Price-Mars wrote that " Dominicans were treated like a conquered people, they weren't treated well".

On another book somewhere it says that " former slaves hated rape, because they were victims of it first hand, so they abhor doing it to others".

I don't think that in other place in world history people with white skin have been dominated by pure blacks from a different country like on DR. Plenty of white flesh for former slaves to lust after. Was there or not a " rape-fest " in DR during the 22 years of Haitian Occupation? 22 years is a long time. Any detailed documentations on this ?

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The truth is that there are always rapes in all types of invasions and military intervention.

Such thing is not unique to the Haitian army or even to the Haitian occupation of the DR.

According to the legend of the Virgin de las Mercedes, Toussaint lined all the females of Santo Domingo at the Plaza de Armas (today, Parque Colon) and simply went in front of each of them asking them one question while pointing towards them: "Frances o Espa?ol?"

He reached one lady who loudly accused him of being a "coward who has no manners in the presence of a real lady".

The legend goes on to say that Toussaint order the massacre of the entire inhabitants of Santo Domingo, but the virgin appeared in his presence which caused him to abort his order of massacre.

Of course, this is only a legend based on catholicism, but as with every legend in religion, it was most likely based on some truths, though distorted to engrandize the religious aspect.

About the moving of Haitians, its well documented that there were very few Haitians citizens who actually moved west, for the most part soldiers.

Most of today's Dominicans are decendants of migrants and intermarriage of migrants that came in the 1890s and early 1900s. Most of the migrants coming from the islands of Tortola, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, St. Lucia, Barbados, St. Vincent, as well from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Haiti, and Spain.

There were numbers of middle easterners, asians, and people from other places, but their numbers were miniscule.

In any case, there were rapes, no need for documentation to prove that.

There were rapes during the Haitian occupation, there were rapes during the French occupation, and there were also rapes during both American occupations.

I guess my question is the following:

What is your motivation behind the creation of this thread? Just wondering...

I agree with Nal, you don't need to see documentation to know if rape occured or not. Conquered states will always be subject to some form of exploitation. i.e. rape. Thats the ways of war.

Thank God camera's did not exist back then, or readily available.

Also wondering

Nal0whs said:

I guess my question is the following:

What is your motivation behind the creation of this thread? Just wondering...

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I also have to wonder about the motivation of asking particularly about rape during the occupation also. I also agree that with any occupation random murders, rapes, and psychological/physical abuse are inevitable. There doesn't have to be graphic accounts of rapes during the occupation to understand that the atrocities happened, nor long lectures concerning that only topic.

I could understand the question better, if it was asked in a different way. I.E.:

"Did rape during the occupation contribute to the further darkening of Dominicans?"

"Due to the rapes during the past occupation, do Dominicans fear that Haitians may covet the lighter toned Dominicanas and more aggressively pursue them while escaping their own country?"

Could you elaborate?

I agree with Nawls that no documentation is needed because like the previous posters said, pretty much all occupations of foreign nations rapes are abound. They accused the Moors of darkening Italy, the Europeans raped the slaves and created Mullattoes and the Europeans raped the Indians and created Mestizoes.

I hope this isn't one of those hateful DR vs. Haiti threads.

Nals needs to get a few things straight

Toussaint was dead by the time of the 1822-1844 Ocupation came around.

Most Dominicans are NOT decendants of blacks from the other islands, whose immigration to the DR in the late 1800s was miniscule in real terms.

Was there rape? Probably. Was there intermarriage? Of course.

Kindly remember that Dominican history as told by Dominican historians must follow the tradition that the Haitian Domination was truly horrible. Folklore makes it out to be the cause of the nation's darker population. Yet every Dominican I meets alswys tells me that their father, grandfather or great grandfather was French, Spanish, German or American....never Haitian...

In many ways this is so similar to the American history as related to the West. The Indian was the savage and the White Man was the rescuer of damsels in distress, the defender of liberty and the educator of democracy. Anyone that can read knows that this was not the case, Wild Bill, the Lone Ranger, Tom Mix, Roy Rogers and Gene Autry to the contrary.

Now, as another poster has referred to the case of Sudan or Ruanda (but he forgot Croatia, Serbia and so forth, where rape was and is being used as an agent of "ethnic cleansing", I think we can pretty well dismiss such a case back in 1822. Did they happen? Yes, as I stted above, they surely did, but not on a massive scale such as Sudan or Croatia.

And the OP is so right,there is a major lack of history written on this.

HB :ermm:

I agree with the posters...We all know that during occupation that alot of bad things happen....

What seems to boggle me is that most dominicans put so much emphasis on haitian occupation and their atrocities but never talk about the atrocities the spaniards commited towards their ancestors.!!!


Asopao,

War, occupation, etc etc are very disturbing and breeds rapes, murderers, and so on...Think about all the haitians that are being raped and murdered like TODAY......its a vicious cycle and only we can change things for a better tomorrow....

This thread can't really bring anything worth debating because we all know during occupations these acts are commited...

Keep learning....


Super great post Hillbilly...

This Dominican vs Haitian......

Thing is growing old and Im sick and tired of hearing about it we are in 2005 now get over it what is done is done already. Im wondering what is the motive of starting this thread like many posters on DR1.

Quisqueya said:

I agree with the posters...We all know that during occupation that alot of bad things happen....

What seems to boggle me is that most dominicans put so much emphasis on haitian occupation and their atrocities but never talk about the atrocities the spaniards commited towards their ancestors.!!!

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I will say this the Trujillo/Balaguer propaganda did a good job brain washing.

asopao said:

I've only seen one reference on rapes by Haitians in one book about DR written in English by a non-Dominican. Don't remember book's name. It says " Dominican historians descrbe the Haitian Occupation as a brutal nightmare; dominated by illiterate soldiers,many who were former slaves......

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My only question...How are you able to quote a book, word for word, and not be able to remember it's title?

HOWMAR said:

My only question...How are you able to quote a book, word for word, and not be able to remember it's title?

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I know the book too, but also can't remember the name. It's memorable by how bad it is. It was written by a professor from North Carolina State University, or somewhere like that. In one account, the residents of Moca who fled to the mountains were invited back under guarantee of safety by the Haitian occupiers only to be massacred upon arrival.

It is a remarkably poor work of history. I don't think it contained one citation.

We do know that the occupation could not have been nice, though. The central towns of the DR were abandoned and were not reestablished until independence.

What is lost on most Dominicans is that the Haitians' motivation to occupy Santo Domingo was less desire to conquer and more fear of the eastern side of the island being used against it by European powers to reinstate slavery in Haiti.

I also have to strongly disagree with Nals about the african influence in the DR deriving predominantly from the West Indies. The influence may also, though, be less Haitian than other people think. I have read descriptions of the population of Santo Domingo being predominantly mulatto by the beginning of the 19th century. Dominicans have been Dominicans for a long time.

Nal0whs said:

What is your motivation behind the creation of this thread? Just wondering...

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Haiti vs DR threads are the sanky threads of the debate forum. They bring in crowds. I'm still waiting for the Haitian sanky vs the DR sanky thread, that should be huge.

Sort of on topic, has anyone read the Madison Smartt Bell trilogy All Souls Rising, Master of the Crossroads and The Stone that the Builder Refused? Historical novels about Toussaint L'Ouverture and Haitian history. Also partly set in what today is the DR. I've read the first two and would be interested in hearing others' views.

Link

HOWMAR said:

My only question...How are you able to quote a book, word for word, and not be able to remember it's title?

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Good observation HOWMAR. The OP's intentions are crystal clear. It's just an attempt to derail the other post about the 3 Haitians that were cowardly set ablaze while sleeping.

I would love to hear his opinion on what the punishment should be for the criminals that murdered the 3 Haitians as they slept.

Jwb said:

Good observation HOWMAR. The OP's intentions are crystal clear. It's just an attempt to derail the other post about the 3 Haitians that were cowardly set ablaze while sleeping.

I would love to hear his opinion on what the punishment should be for the criminals that murdered the 3 Haitians as they slept.

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Where did you read that they were set ablaze while sleeping? I've been trying to find more links about the tragedy.

rellosk said:

Where did you read that they were set ablaze while sleeping? I've been trying to find more links about the tragedy.

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Do a search and all of your questions will be answered. However, you must first clean the lens of your glasses, or soak your contacts in solution.

Asopao,

That isn't true...Where are you getting your info from... Ok, put your books down for one sec...and just use your own logic.ok...How can one island have free negros roaming around and mulattos running the west side while on the east side negros and mulattos are still enslaved...Haitians were not going to risk nor take the chance to allow the spaniards to keep your ancestors enslaved...Oh, at that time their was no such thing as the dominican people...your ancestors where spaniards property...

Fastfoward to present day and you can see why haitians wanted control of the whole island..look at all weapons and military equipment that go across the border to further destroy the haitian people...Foreign troops use DR as the main base to enter haiti....its simply a back door into either country...

I hope this helps you on your quest..

asopao said:

True, but the MAIN reason was to collect taxes from the Dominicans to pay the huge amount of money that France was demanding in exchange for recognition and also give land to the military officers so they be off Boyer's back. I've found Haitians downplaying these facts. All you hear is " we were scared of an invasion from a slaves-holding power coming from the eastern side ".

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