No Jus Soli in DR for non-Jus soli granting states

asopao

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There is no Jus Soli in Haiti, but DR has Jus Soli. I think that DR should deny Jus Soli rights to any country that doesn't have Jus Soli.

If Haiti gets flooded with Dominicans, and they give birth in Haiti, guess what? none of them will be Haitian citizens. They all will be just Dominican. So why DR has to give Dominican citizenship to ethnic Haitians then?

Look at a world atlas. How many countries in the world share an island with another one? I only found Cyprus in the Mediterranean and the new republic of East Timor that just came out in 1999 I think. ( I don't count Borneo because Malaysia and Indonesia are not only confined to this island, the sultanate of Brunei is).

In this geopolitical situation, Is it prudent to grant citizenship by birth to the other side of the island? Does this make sense?

Let's suppose that Haiti has an economy twice as big as DR and has 2 million ethnic Haitian people,and gets flooded with one million poor Dominican migrants, and they give birth to another million in Haiti. Do you think Haitians are going to want that? What are going to be the political implications on the island.? You gonna have 2 million ethnic Dominicans in Haiti, having a political influence favoring the DR. Haitians might as well just unify their State then with DR.


This is ridiculous, and YES, a danger for the ethnic integrity of Dominicans as a nation. This is not some " anti-hatian " bs. Is like having a room( the island of hispaniola) with two kitchens ( DR and Haiti). The Haitian coming to your kitchen ( DR) saying it is his kitchen too and have a say on what you should cook in your kitchen. This is bs.

If Haiti doesn't have Jus Soli ( I don't know why some dirt poor country wouldn't grant Jus soli in the first place. In Africa only Sierra Leone grants Jus Soli only if your parents are of Negroid race or British citizens, now that's is weird). and is also the weakest link in the island. Why DR has to grant citizenship by birth to ethnic Haitians?

Even if Haiti grants Jus Soli, it doesn't matter, if one state getts flooded with people from another state on the same island, there shouldn't be jus soli on both states !! The constitution needs to be changed.
 
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HOWMAR

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asopao said:
There is no Jus Soli in Haiti, but DR has Jus Soli. I think that DR should deny Jus Soli rights to any country that doesn't have Jus Soli.

If Haiti gets flooded with Dominicans, and they give birth in Haiti, guess what? none of them will be Haitian citizens. They all will be just Dominican. So why DR has to give Dominican citizenship to ethnic Haitians then?

Look at a world atlas. How many countries in the world share an island with another one? I only found Cyprus in the Mediterranean and the new republic of East Timor that just came out in 1999 I think. ( I don't count Borneo because Malaysia and Indonesia are not only confined to this island, the sultanate of Brunei is).

In this geopolitical situation, Is it prudent to grant citizenship by birth to the other side of the island? Does this make sense?

Let's suppose that Haiti has an economy twice as big as DR and has 2 million ethnic Haitian people,and gets flooded with one million poor Dominican migrants, and they give birth to another million in Haiti. Do you think Haitians are going to want that? What are going to be the political implications on the island.? You gonna have 2 million ethnic Dominicans in Haiti, having a political influence favoring the DR. Haitians might as well just unify their State then with DR.


This is ridiculous, and YES, a danger for the ethnic integrity of Dominicans as a nation. This is not some " anti-hatian " bs. Is like having a room( the island of hispaniola) with two kitches ( DR and Haiti). The Haitian comming to your kitchen ( DR) saying it is his kitchen too because wanting to have a say on what you should cook in your kitchen. This is bs.

If Haiti doesn't have Jus Soli ( I don't know why some dirt poor country wouldn't grant Jus soli in the first place). and is also the weakest link in the island. Why DR has to grant citizenship to ethnic Haitians? The constitution needs to be changed.

The DR constitution already addresses your concerns. If the mass exodus from Haiti concerns you then the answer is proper immigration law and enforcement.
The DR Constitution. Article 11, section 2 says that anyone born in the DR is a Dominican, EXCEPT children born to diplomats, persons in transit or illegal immigrants.
Unless proper immigration documentation can be produced these children are not being granted DR citizenship.
As far as your sharing an island point. The DR-Haiti border is no different than the US-Mexico border. The fact that this is an island has no significance.
 

Guatiao

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Hello HOWMAR,

I'm not trying to kidnap the thread but is Andres Garcia & his sister Dominican? They are the children of a diplomat in DR?

Peace,
Capo

HOWMAR said:
The DR constitution already addresses your concerns. If the mass exodus from Haiti concerns you then the answer is proper immigration law and enforcement.
The DR Constitution. Article 11, section 2 says that anyone born in the DR is a Dominican, EXCEPT children born to diplomats, persons in transit or illegal immigrants.
Unless proper immigration documentation can be produced these children are not being granted DR citizenship.
As far as your sharing an island point. The DR-Haiti border is no different than the US-Mexico border. The fact that this is an island has no significance.
 

HOWMAR

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capodominicano said:
Hello HOWMAR,

I'm not trying to kidnap the thread but is Andres Garcia & his sister Dominican? They are the children of a diplomat in DR?

Peace,
Capo
Excuse me for being ignorant as to who Andres Garcia is. If he is the child of a foreign diplomat serving his country in the DR he is not guaranteed Dominican citizenship simply for being born in the DR, according to the Constitution. He may be entitled to citizenship by other means, not Jus Soli. Please fill me in on who Andres Garcia is.
 

Quisqueya

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Oh Gosh

Asopao,

I have a question, Do you think of anything else?.... LOL....


IMO, why would any haitian want to be dominican by birth..Guess what, you still can't leave the island...stuck on la hispaniola...get real.....
 

Quisqueya

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Andres Garcia is an actor...mostly novelas....

Dominicans always claims him as theirs but reality is he is not dominican...he currently has that show 'Principe Azul"..


HOWMAR said:
Excuse me for being ignorant as to who Andres Garcia is. If he is the child of a foreign diplomat serving his country in the DR he is not guaranteed Dominican citizenship simply for being born in the DR, according to the Constitution. He may be entitled to citizenship by other means, not Jus Soli. Please fill me in on who Andres Garcia is.
 

HOWMAR

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Quisqueya said:
Asopao,

I have a question, Do you think of anything else?.... LOL....


IMO, why would any haitian want to be dominican by birth..Guess what, you still can't leave the island...stuck on la hispaniola...get real.....
I would think it's a relative value judgement call. As some Dominican parents would like to have their children declared US citizens, I'm positive many Haitian parents would prefer to have their children declared Dominican citizens.
Before all the responses please note I said some Dominican parents.
 

Quisqueya

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HOWMAR,

You're comparing a 1st world country with a 3rd world country..I dont see a benefit any haitian would have by declaring dominican citizenship....Again your still stuck in that island going in circles..Haitian parents would opt on US/Canadian/French citizenship...Dominicans need to get a visa to go everywhere just like haitians thus...I dont see the advantage...


HOWMAR said:
I would think it's a relative value judgement call. As some Dominican parents would like to have their children declared US citizens, I'm positive many Haitian parents would prefer to have their children declared Dominican citizens.
Before all the responses please note I said some Dominican parents.
 

HOWMAR

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Quisqueya said:
HOWMAR,

You're comparing a 1st world country with a 3rd world country..I dont see a benefit any haitian would have by declaring dominican citizenship....Again your still stuck in that island going in circles..Haitian parents would opt on US/Canadian/French citizenship...Dominicans need to get a visa to go everywhere just like haitians thus...I dont see the advantage...
I can't believe you can't see the advantages of life in the DR to life in Haiti. I don't see any Dominicans immigrating to Haiti. Until you have experienced life in Haiti (the poorest country in the hemisphere) you cannot put yourself in the Haitian parents shoes who want a better life for their children. As many Dominicans feel the streets of the US are paved with gold, many Haitians feel that the streets of the DR are at least paved. Well, not paved that well, but at least not strewn with dead bodies from a near civil war.
 

Quisqueya

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Overall the dominican economy is indeed better than haiti's but dont let what you see on TV fool you...I grew up in haiti and educated in haiti..and I can say my life was great and then some so I guess I can put my self in their shoes....Yes haiti is indeed a very poor country but we have many people who are well off....In my opinion the haitian community usually aim for USA or any other !st world country...Believe me many haitians dont see the benefits of having dominican citizenship.....No one in my realm would see the benefits..for what? Beleive me some haitians only see the DR as a vacation spot just for the weekend and not a land of opportunity...Unfortunately, their are those that do...but even they aren't planning on stay in the DR forever...most want to migrate off the island...

Maybe you are referring to the poorer haitians migrating to the DR but haitians that I know consider dominican citizenship useless...which it is to me....You'll still need a visa to fly just about everywhere...


HowMar how many haitians do you know?...I'm not talking about your maids or construction workers rather those that doesn't know the meaning of having a job but still live very very comfortable...

Poorest country in the western hemisphere...have you been to Gautemala or Honduras...

Patiently waiting for ur rebuttal...
Have you ever been to haiti..it amazes me when people make their own conclusion about a country the know nothing about...



HOWMAR said:
I can't believe you can't see the advantages of life in the DR to life in Haiti. I don't see any Dominicans immigrating to Haiti. Until you have experienced life in Haiti (the poorest country in the hemisphere) you cannot put yourself in the Haitian parents shoes who want a better life for their children. As many Dominicans feel the streets of the US are paved with gold, many Haitians feel that the streets of the DR are at least paved. Well, not paved that well, but at least not strewn with dead bodies from a near civil war.
 
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HOWMAR

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Quisqueya said:
Overall the dominican economy is indeed better than haiti's but dont let what you see on TV fool you...I grew up in haiti and educated in haiti..and I can say my life was great and then some so I guess I can put my self in their shoes....Yes haiti is indeed a very poor country but we have many people who are well off....In my opinion the haitian community usually aim for USA or any other !st world country...Believe me many haitians dont see the benefits of having dominican citizenship.....No one in my realm would see the benefits..for what? Beleive me some haitians only see the DR as a vacation spot just for the weekend and not a land of opportunity...Unfortunately, their are those that do...but even they aren't planning on stay in the DR forever...most want to migrate off the island...

Maybe you are referring to the poorer haitians migrating to the DR but haitians that I know consider dominican citizenship useless...which it is to me....You'll still need a visa to fly just about everywhere...


HowMar how many haitians do you know?...I'm not talking about your maids or construction workers rather those that doesn't know the meaning of having a job but still live very very comfortable...

Poorest country in the western hemisphere...have you been to Gautemala or Honduras...

Patiently waiting for ur rebuttal...
Have you ever been to haiti..it amazes me when people make their own conclusion about a country the know nothing about...

First, so the facts don't get into the way, try the following link. It is just one of hundreds listing Haiti as the poorest country in the Western hemisphere when I did a Google search.
http://www.careusa.org/vft/haiti/index.asp

Next, how many Haitians do I know who are not my maid? I work in a company that's work force is approxiamtely 10% Haitian, and yes they are here legally. In fact, in most cases, their work ethic is the best in the company.
No, this is not menial labor.

Yes, I have been to Haiti. But I must admit it was over 20 years ago. From what I can determine, as bad as conditions were then, they are worse now.

If in fact you were better off in Haiti than the DR why be here? Congratulation for being an exception rather than the rule.
 

Quisqueya

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Yes, Believe me every info about haiti always mentions that haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere....


Howmar, I hope I didn't offend you by asking you how many haitians do you know that arent ur maid..But it appears you seem to think that most haitians look towards DR as the land of opportunity....In actuality, most look towards USA, Canada, or France even Spain....Ask some of your haitian coworkers if they plan on staying in the DR forever...I am sure the answer is no...most would eventually want to live the island...


BTW, I am not living in the DR.....



Howmar, you mentioned your haitian coworkers are legal...which they should be...but I garuantee you majority of the other nationals may not be legal and still managed to have no problems...Oh the double standard...

have a great day...BTW, do you work for a telecommunication company ?

HOWMAR said:
First, so the facts don't get into the way, try the following link. It is just one of hundreds listing Haiti as the poorest country in the Western hemisphere when I did a Google search.
http://www.careusa.org/vft/haiti/index.asp

Next, how many Haitians do I know who are not my maid? I work in a company that's work force is approxiamtely 10% Haitian, and yes they are here legally. In fact, in most cases, their work ethic is the best in the company.
No, this is not menial labor.

Yes, I have been to Haiti. But I must admit it was over 20 years ago. From what I can determine, as bad as conditions were then, they are worse now.

If in fact you were better off in Haiti than the DR why be here? Congratulation for being an exception rather than the rule.
 
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HOWMAR

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Quisqueya said:
Yes, Believe me every info about haiti always mentions that haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere....


Howmar, I hope I didn't offend you by asking you how many haitians do you know that arent ur maid..But it appears you seem to think that most haitians look towards DR as the land of opportunity....In actuality, most look towards USA, Canada, or France even Spain....Ask some of your haitian coworkers if they plan on staying in the DR forever...I am sure the answer is no...most would eventually want to live the island...


BTW, I am not living in the DR.....



Howmar, you mentioned your haitian coworkers are legal...which they should be...but I garuantee you majority of the other nationals may not be legal and still managed to have no problems...Oh the double standard...

have a great day...BTW, do you work for a telecommunication company ?
Certainly, people from the majority of the world's countries would rather be in the USA, Canada, France, Spain or dozens of other countries. Hell, I wish I could afford to live in Monaco. But the point here is that when faced with the choice of bringing up your child as a citizen of Haiti or the Dominican Republic, those Haitians living in the DR would rather have their child declared as a Dominican citizen. Certainly they would like their child to be a citizen of the USA, but that isn't in the cards.
As far a the company I work for. It is a multinational, USA based, telemarketing company. Your point is????????????
(Don't bother with the outsourceing of jobs from the US and taking advantage of a local, underpaid workforce argument.) We employ workers at a good wage (over 3 times the minimum wage) and are more efficient getting workers than back in the USA. Our workers make more than a school teacher, policeman, or government doctor.
As for the double standard. All our workers have the same requirements and comply with Dominican Labor Law.
 

suarezn

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Quisqueya said:
Andres Garcia is an actor...mostly novelas....

Dominicans always claims him as theirs but reality is he is not dominican...he currently has that show 'Principe Azul"..

Andres Garcia's family IS dominican. I happen to know a few of them. Now, whether he consider himself Dominican is another matter. I remember he always used to go to The DR during campaign and even helped out Balaguer in one of the periods he was running again because "El pueblo me lo pide"...but I digress.

Quisqueya: You don't see the benefit of being Dominican, because you're from Haiti's upper class. from your posts I gather you had a very good life in Haiti with maids, drivers, and everything done FOR you. I'm sure people like the Pelleranos, Peynados, and others also see no value in becoming US citizens...But the reality is that most Dominicans would gladly become US citizens or at least legal residents if given the opportunity. Likewise Haitians would become Dominican citizens or legal residents if also given the opportunity. My feeling is that we cannot afford at this point to give automatic citizenship to children of parents that are in The DR illegally as this would encourage a lot more people to come into the country from Haiti to give birth causing a lot more issues than we already have.

I do think that something must be done to at least register these kids who are born in The DR, so that we at least know that they are there and they can get basic services such as education, medicine, etc...I propose they give them a kind of ID that while it wouldn't represent citizenship or legal residence it would at least provide a way to identify them.

We cannot continue with the policy of completely ignoring the issue...like they don't exist. It is in our interest that these kids at least get an education in Spanish rather than have a large population that's completely illiterate.
 

asopao

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suarezn said:
Andres Garcia's family IS dominican. I happen to know a few of them. Now, whether he consider himself Dominican is another matter. I remember he always used to go to The DR during campaign and even helped out Balaguer in one of the periods he was running again because "El pueblo me lo pide"...but I digress.

Quisqueya: You don't see the benefit of being Dominican, because you're from Haiti's upper class. from your posts I gather you had a very good life in Haiti with maids, drivers, and everything done FOR you. I'm sure people like the Pelleranos, Peynados, and others also see no value in becoming US citizens...But the reality is that most Dominicans would gladly become US citizens or at least legal residents if given the opportunity. Likewise Haitians would become Dominican citizens or legal residents if also given the opportunity. My feeling is that we cannot afford at this point to give automatic citizenship to children of parents that are in The DR illegally as this would encourage a lot more people to come into the country from Haiti to give birth causing a lot more issues than we already have.

I do think that something must be done to at least register these kids who are born in The DR, so that we at least know that they are there and they can get basic services such as education, medicine, etc...I propose they give them a kind of ID that while it wouldn't represent citizenship or legal residence it would at least provide a way to identify them.

We cannot continue with the policy of completely ignoring the issue...like they don't exist. It is in our interest that these kids at least get an education in Spanish rather than have a large population that's completely illiterate.


I agree with you suarenz. Hospital not giving birth certificates at all is stupid and plain discriminatory. Like some clergyman said, they should receive a birth certificate indicating Haitian nationality and have them register with the Haitian consulate. We need to keep track of everybody in DR Also, why I see some many ethnic Haitians with Spanish names( Last names too) in DR ? Is that an attempt to get the children for Dominican citizens?
 

Quisqueya

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Asopao,

The fact of the matter is children born in the DR to haitian migrate workers are not dominican by birth and also not recognize by haitian government since they usually do not register with the haitian consulate...

Asoapao what kind of question was the last one...There are alot of haitians with spanish surnames in haiti as well as italian, english etc etc. There are alot of dominicans with french surnames as well..Espaillat, Duverge etc etc....


The truth is both governments need to come to an accord to register everyone...but reality is there are haitians and dominicans that never obtained any birth certificate at all from there respective country..thus, it usually goes from generation to generation...This isn't the states or some first world country......Asopao.... ;)

asopao said:
I agree with you suarenz. Hospital not giving birth certificates at all is stupid and plain discriminatory. Like some clergyman said, they should receive a birth certificate indicating Haitian nationality and have them register with the Haitian consulate. We need to keep track of everybody in DR Also, why I see some many ethnic Haitians with Spanish names( Last names too) in DR ? Is that an attempt to get the children for Dominican citizens?
 

asopao

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Quisqueya said:
Asopao,

The fact of the matter is children born in the DR to haitian migrate workers are not dominican by birth and also not recognize by haitian government since they usually do not register with the haitian consulate...

Asoapao what kind of question was the last one...There are alot of haitians with spanish surnames in haiti as well as italian, english etc etc. There are alot of dominicans with french surnames as well..Espaillat, Duverge etc etc....


The truth is both governments need to come to an accord to register everyone...but reality is there are haitians and dominicans that never obtained any birth certificate at all from there respective country..thus, it usually goes from generation to generation...This isn't the states or some first world country......Asopao.... ;)

The French names in DR came from the time the French were in DR(1795-1809) or Haitians. From where Haitians in Haiti get Spanish names from?

On the Immigration subject, all the burden is placed on DR. Other island states in the Caribbean like Jamaica don't have to set aside part of their budget on patrolling a border, and hospitals taking care of the people from the other side.

What percentage of the Dominican population you think don't have birth certificate? maybe like 2%
 

Stodgord

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asopao said:
The French names in DR came from the time the French were in DR(1795-1809) or Haitians. From where Haitians in Haiti get Spanish names from?

On the Immigration subject, all the burden is placed on DR. Other island states in the Caribbean like Jamaica don't have to set aside part of their budget on patrolling a border, and hospitals taking care of the people from the other side.

What percentage of the Dominican population you think don't have birth certificate? maybe like 2%


Why can't you fathom the idea many Dominican men or any man from the spanish speaking world went to live in Haiti. Didn't Simon Bolivar live in Haiti at one point of his life? Isn't there a Cuban population in Haiti? It is a porrous border and I doubt any horny man knows boundaries.
 

suarezn

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Stodgord said:
It is a porrous border and I doubt any horny man knows boundaries.

That's funny...and you know those "cocomordans" are like big magnetic force.